What if George Zimmerman DID act in self defense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yeah a teenager giving the bird for the camera is a cause for concern cause it definitely shows that he would have grown up and never amount to nothing in life.

oh wait though....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpL6EIMShO4

*like*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

I'm with you 100%

I posted earlier that even if there HAD been an altercation (evidence does not seem to support this right now, but even if it had), it didn't need to escalate to a person dead from a gunshot wound. I will never, ever understand the mentality of needing a gun to "protect myself" In my opinion, this is how shit like this happens.

Flame away - I think handguns should be illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

I'm with you 100%

I posted earlier that even if there HAD been an altercation (evidence does not seem to support this right now, but even if it had), it didn't need to escalate to a person dead from a gunshot wound. I will never, ever understand the mentality of needing a gun to "protect myself" In my opinion, this is how shit like this happens.

Flame away - I think handguns should be illegal.

you no american

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

\

In DC carrying weapons is illegal but guess what, DC has more gun crime than virginia. Outlawing guns takes away guns from lawful people not the criminals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

I'm with you 100%

I posted earlier that even if there HAD been an altercation (evidence does not seem to support this right now, but even if it had), it didn't need to escalate to a person dead from a gunshot wound. I will never, ever understand the mentality of needing a gun to "protect myself" In my opinion, this is how shit like this happens.

Flame away - I think handguns should be illegal.

Yes.

No matter how big and menacing Martin might have been, he did not have a gun, and chances of him killing Zimmerman as a result of a fight on the ground were small. Zimmerman's chances of killing someone with a weapon were almost 100%. How is that legal?

BTW, when a police officer kills someone as a result of an altercation, there is always an investigation to see if the officer exceeded the threshold of self-defense. When some crazy dude pulls a gun and kills someone, they don't even arrest him.

That's just plain wrong in my book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yeah a teenager giving the bird for the camera is a cause for concern cause it definitely shows that he would have grown up and never amount to nothing in life.

oh wait though....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpL6EIMShO4

Yeah, the guy in that video definitely showed evidence of being overly aggressive and willing to distort the truth in order to use violent means to get his way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

I'm with you 100%

I posted earlier that even if there HAD been an altercation (evidence does not seem to support this right now, but even if it had), it didn't need to escalate to a person dead from a gunshot wound. I will never, ever understand the mentality of needing a gun to "protect myself" In my opinion, this is how shit like this happens.

Flame away - I think handguns should be illegal.

Yes.

No matter how big and menacing Martin might have been, he did not have a gun, and chances of him killing Zimmerman as a result of a fight on the ground were small. Zimmerman's chances of killing someone with a weapon were almost 100%. How is that legal?

BTW, when a police officer kills someone as a result of an altercation, there is always an investigation to see if the officer exceeded the threshold of self-defense. When some crazy dude pulls a gun and kills someone, they don't even arrest him.

That's just plain wrong in my book.

You didn't write the law, oh stand your ground is in VA so don't be pissing off the real freedom lover americans

25 states have broad “shoot first” laws that allow the use of deadly force in self-defense outside the home with no duty to retreat: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington, and West Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

I'm with you 100%

I posted earlier that even if there HAD been an altercation (evidence does not seem to support this right now, but even if it had), it didn't need to escalate to a person dead from a gunshot wound. I will never, ever understand the mentality of needing a gun to "protect myself" In my opinion, this is how shit like this happens.

Flame away - I think handguns should be illegal.

Yes.

No matter how big and menacing Martin might have been, he did not have a gun, and chances of him killing Zimmerman as a result of a fight on the ground were small. Zimmerman's chances of killing someone with a weapon were almost 100%. How is that legal?

BTW, when a police officer kills someone as a result of an altercation, there is always an investigation to see if the officer exceeded the threshold of self-defense. When some crazy dude pulls a gun and kills someone, they don't even arrest him.

That's just plain wrong in my book.

You didn't write the law, oh stand your ground is in VA so don't be pissing off the real freedom lover americans

25 states have broad “shoot first” laws that allow the use of deadly force in self-defense outside the home with no duty to retreat: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington, and West Virginia.

Virginia is a "stand-your-ground" state. That means AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT PART OF "THE PROBLEM" and are innocent, you can stand your ground and use force to defend yourself wherever you may be.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

\

In DC carrying weapons is illegal but guess what, DC has more gun crime than virginia. Outlawing guns takes away guns from lawful people not the criminals.

Notice I didn't say all guns (I have no issue with hunters). I also didn't say whether or not I thought getting the already-out-there guns out of the hands of criminals would be easy. I just truly believe the only people who SHOULD have handguns are law enforcement/military, if that.

That would be my ideal world - I really don't buy into the "law abiding citizen" needing it for protection BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

\

In DC carrying weapons is illegal but guess what, DC has more gun crime than virginia. Outlawing guns takes away guns from lawful people not the criminals.

But I was thinking more of other countries (maybe you can guess I'm not American!) where guns are not available for the public across the whole country. Of course you can't just do it in one small jurisdiction. Yes, a few gun crimes happen in those countries, but nothing like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

\

In DC carrying weapons is illegal but guess what, DC has more gun crime than virginia. Outlawing guns takes away guns from lawful people not the criminals.

But I was thinking more of other countries (maybe you can guess I'm not American!) where guns are not available for the public across the whole country. Of course you can't just do it in one small jurisdiction. Yes, a few gun crimes happen in those countries, but nothing like this.

It's our mix of people, socio-economics and culture. There are countries with a lot of guns in the public but not much gun violence. And there are other countries with few guns in the public and little gun violence. Then there are states with low gun violence rates but with liberal gun ownership laws and some of the highest gun ownership rates. I believe this is VT and UT. Then there are places with very strict gun control laws yet high gun violence rates. DC and Chicago come to mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

\

In DC carrying weapons is illegal but guess what, DC has more gun crime than virginia. Outlawing guns takes away guns from lawful people not the criminals.

But I was thinking more of other countries (maybe you can guess I'm not American!) where guns are not available for the public across the whole country. Of course you can't just do it in one small jurisdiction. Yes, a few gun crimes happen in those countries, but nothing like this.

It's our mix of people, socio-economics and culture. There are countries with a lot of guns in the public but not much gun violence. And there are other countries with few guns in the public and little gun violence. Then there are states with low gun violence rates but with liberal gun ownership laws and some of the highest gun ownership rates. I believe this is VT and UT. Then there are places with very strict gun control laws yet high gun violence rates. DC and Chicago come to mind.

You will find the difference in these high gun ownership states and countries is that most gun ownership is rifles. VT for example, most people have rifles for hunting and animal control. And Switzerland is the international example. In Switzerland most of the guns are the weapons of the Swiss Army. By law they keep them at home, and only the officers carry handguns. Everyone else carries rifles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

\

In DC carrying weapons is illegal but guess what, DC has more gun crime than virginia. Outlawing guns takes away guns from lawful people not the criminals.

That would be an impressive statistic if it were true. But since I looked up the uniform crime reports, I can say it is false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't possibly read all 15 pages, so I don't know if this has been discussed (my apologies). I get that the whole racist angle is huge in this situation (rightly so). But it seems to me that it's putting the gun issue in the shadows. Why on earth do people like Zimmerman (or anybody, for that matter) get to walk around the streets with guns?? It is so f***ed up. Even here in DC, so many gun crimes. Makes me sick.

I'm with you 100%

I posted earlier that even if there HAD been an altercation (evidence does not seem to support this right now, but even if it had), it didn't need to escalate to a person dead from a gunshot wound. I will never, ever understand the mentality of needing a gun to "protect myself" In my opinion, this is how shit like this happens.

Flame away - I think handguns should be illegal.

Yes.

No matter how big and menacing Martin might have been, he did not have a gun, and chances of him killing Zimmerman as a result of a fight on the ground were small. Zimmerman's chances of killing someone with a weapon were almost 100%. How is that legal?

BTW, when a police officer kills someone as a result of an altercation, there is always an investigation to see if the officer exceeded the threshold of self-defense. When some crazy dude pulls a gun and kills someone, they don't even arrest him.

That's just plain wrong in my book.

You didn't write the law, oh stand your ground is in VA so don't be pissing off the real freedom lover americans

25 states have broad “shoot first” laws that allow the use of deadly force in self-defense outside the home with no duty to retreat: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington, and West Virginia.

Virginia is a "stand-your-ground" state. That means AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT PART OF "THE PROBLEM" and are innocent, you can stand your ground and use force to defend yourself wherever you may be.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

That seems to be to be why there was going to be a grand jury- to determine if George Zimmerman was part or all of the problem. Since Oklahoma was listed here is a link to a horrific crime where a WW2 vet was beaten and his wife [died from injuries] was beaten and raped in their home:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/specialprojects/news/crimewatch/article.aspx?subjectid=450&articleid=20120317_11_A1_CUTLIN133199

There are elderly people in Florida who have shot or held criminals at gunpoint:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/12/2586157/intruder-shot-to-death-by-82-year.html


Then the security guard who grabbed a sword v the burglar with a tire iron [told police he was looking for his wallet]:
http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/local/east-volusia/2012/03/27/police-daytona-restaurant-security-worker-wields-sword-against-burglar.html
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-01-12/news/os-homeowner-shot-burglar-dead-20120112_1_intruder-strikes-police-chief-mike-chitwood-criminal-justice-system

[Anonymous]

Zimmerman's supposed "close friend" who has been defending him, it turns out is not really a close friend.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/dont-trust-joe-olivers-gut-feeling-about-his-friend-george-zimmerman/2011/03/04/gIQAnalogS_blog.html