Syracuse University issues financial warning as admissions slump: We’re in the red

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy town . Observation SEC schools are a huge magnet for kids not in the top 25% of high school class. Those kids have absolutely nil interest in going to Syracuse. Spend a football weekend at Bama, UGa, UFlorida or Texas. Contrast that with football at SU and the Dome.

Fiction…..and the numbers prove it. Very few students who could get into a solid NE university are heading south. The relatively few that do would have attended non-selective state schools. I guess Old Miss might be attractive if the alternative is UMass Dartmouth but not for anyone with UMass Amherst as an option.

You show us the numbers. If you're accusing other people of fiction, you better be able to back yourself up.

I've watched this shift in the last 20 years. The affluent kid, especially males, who'd have gone to Kenyon or Hamilton or Colby now seems more likely to go a big southern or midwestern school. I've seen the instagrams of the local high schools, public and private, and can compare to my own private high school class in the 1990s. LACs have lost a lot of popularity. Even many of the girls are going south / big state university.

People aren't applying to Kenyon and Hamilton and South Carolina and Miami and Alabama, they're applying to one or the other. It's called self-segregation, like everything else in our lives these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a $2.2 billion endowment. Let them eat it.

Do you know how endowments work?

They obviously do not. Most people are pretty uninformed when it comes to endowment mechanics and just see a big pile of money.

NP Agreed. And there is definitely some political poster that advances right wing anti-ed bias on this forum (the repeated bloat person). Probably paid.

[Anonymous]

For those of us who don’t understand why Syracuse can’t tap into its $2B endowment in some way to make changes to their current $97k sticker price, is there a 30-second version that explains it, without going into “endowment mechanics”?

Because if it were a $60k/year sticker school and gave merit aid more sparingly, it wouldn’t have this problem. And there’s no changing the weather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy town . Observation SEC schools are a huge magnet for kids not in the top 25% of high school class. Those kids have absolutely nil interest in going to Syracuse. Spend a football weekend at Bama, UGa, UFlorida or Texas. Contrast that with football at SU and the Dome.

Fiction…..and the numbers prove it. Very few students who could get into a solid NE university are heading south. The relatively few that do would have attended non-selective state schools. I guess Old Miss might be attractive if the alternative is UMass Dartmouth but not for anyone with UMass Amherst as an option.

You show us the numbers. If you're accusing other people of fiction, you better be able to back yourself up.

I've watched this shift in the last 20 years. The affluent kid, especially males, who'd have gone to Kenyon or Hamilton or Colby now seems more likely to go a big southern or midwestern school. I've seen the instagrams of the local high schools, public and private, and can compare to my own private high school class in the 1990s. LACs have lost a lot of popularity. Even many of the girls are going south / big state university.

People aren't applying to Kenyon and Hamilton and South Carolina and Miami and Alabama, they're applying to one or the other. It's called self-segregation, like everything else in our lives these days.

You’re asking for evidence while you are spouting fiction. Many articles in the past year discussing what you are talking about and pointing out that the numbers re small but rising. If you actually look at the class composition numbers for the SEC schools you will find that reality doesn’t align with your beliefs. SLACs numbers are continuing to rise at selective schools also proving you wrong.

[Anonymous]

Look at the significant drop in applications at Colgate, Middlebury, Bucknell. URochester, St, Lawrence, Kenyon, Oberlin, Hobart all struggle to fill enrollment targets. Moderate and Conservative kids/families don’t want that vibe at $100k for a meaningless degree from Northeast and Midwest Podunk locations. The facts are clear loads and loads of kids from high income families don’t need Syracuse and the others. Look at car decals on $100k luxury cars in most wealthy suburbs as long as the town is super lefty. Those folks aren’t going to Bama or Ole Miss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who don’t understand why Syracuse can’t tap into its $2B endowment in some way to make changes to their current $97k sticker price, is there a 30-second version that explains it, without going into “endowment mechanics”?

Because if it were a $60k/year sticker school and gave merit aid more sparingly, it wouldn’t have this problem. And there’s no changing the weather.

I'm not going to post the reasons here because someone will dispute my argument. Instead, go to Gemini, Google's AI model, and enter the following prompt:

"Syracuse has a $2.2b endowment. Explain in plain English if it's possible for it to use its endowment to lower the undergraduate cost of attendance significantly 25%+ or greater."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the significant drop in applications at Colgate, Middlebury, Bucknell. URochester, St, Lawrence, Kenyon, Oberlin, Hobart all struggle to fill enrollment targets. Moderate and Conservative kids/families don’t want that vibe at $100k for a meaningless degree from Northeast and Midwest Podunk locations. The facts are clear loads and loads of kids from high income families don’t need Syracuse and the others. Look at car decals on $100k luxury cars in most wealthy suburbs as long as the town is super lefty. Those folks aren’t going to Bama or Ole Miss.

Neither Colgate nor Middlebury are struggling with enrollment targets at all and while applications have been uneven that are still above pre-Covid levels. Hobart had record applications and enrollment this year surpassing 2,000 students. You continue to make assertions which have zero basis in reality.

[Anonymous]

Syracuse is running a budget deficit due to declining enrollment. The last thing it should do is tap its endowment (which is mostly restricted anyways). It needs to cut expenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, tons of kids from nyc suburbs go to Syracuse, have the best 4 years, and are very successful afterward. It’s a very common scenario! And it’s not just Newhouse. The education is good, the experience is good, they don’t mind the weather. I’m trying to think of what a similar private school 3 hours from the dc area would be. But yeah it’s the price. Some of those families can easily pay but the ones who can’t have cheaper state school options.

There are very few schools who are positioned like Syracuse-- mid-sized enrollment, moderately selective, longstanding top tier programs (Newhouse, Falk, Maxwell), large deeply loyal alumni base, winning athletic tradition, national brand, and strong school spirit. What are the comparable schools? SMU? There are a host of schools that come close but are more selective-Villanova, USC, BC, and Miami. Syracuse has a strong niche. There is no death spiral here

Yes, it's expensive but for a student who wants smaller class sizes and a relatively more intimate environment it may be worth the money.

I wrote the post you’re responding to and I totally agree with you. I really like Syracuse. My daughter applied and would have been happy there. She would not have been happy at most state schools. It’s a good fit for lots of kids!

State schools suck. I guess they're ok if you're broke. But they have decaying infrastructure, overcrowded everything, insufficient housing, huge classes, difficulty registering for classes, classes taught by TAs, and worst of all, you're surrounded by plebs. Syracuse offers a much superior experience to those who can afford it.

which state schools? Alabama and Clemson are beautiful. I was ready to sign up!

I went to the University of Buffalo in NY. Your description does not fit the experience I had. I never had issues registering for any of my classes in mechanical engineering from freshman to senior year. Even the genED high demand courses were not difficult to register for.

I don't know what an expensive private university looks like. I am they offer a better environment than Buffalo, but Buffalo is not bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, tons of kids from nyc suburbs go to Syracuse, have the best 4 years, and are very successful afterward. It’s a very common scenario! And it’s not just Newhouse. The education is good, the experience is good, they don’t mind the weather. I’m trying to think of what a similar private school 3 hours from the dc area would be. But yeah it’s the price. Some of those families can easily pay but the ones who can’t have cheaper state school options.

There are very few schools who are positioned like Syracuse-- mid-sized enrollment, moderately selective, longstanding top tier programs (Newhouse, Falk, Maxwell), large deeply loyal alumni base, winning athletic tradition, national brand, and strong school spirit. What are the comparable schools? SMU? There are a host of schools that come close but are more selective-Villanova, USC, BC, and Miami. Syracuse has a strong niche. There is no death spiral here

Yes, it's expensive but for a student who wants smaller class sizes and a relatively more intimate environment it may be worth the money.

I wrote the post you’re responding to and I totally agree with you. I really like Syracuse. My daughter applied and would have been happy there. She would not have been happy at most state schools. It’s a good fit for lots of kids!

State schools suck. I guess they're ok if you're broke. But they have decaying infrastructure, overcrowded everything, insufficient housing, huge classes, difficulty registering for classes, classes taught by TAs, and worst of all, you're surrounded by plebs. Syracuse offers a much superior experience to those who can afford it.

which state schools? Alabama and Clemson are beautiful. I was ready to sign up!

I went to the University of Buffalo in NY. Your description does not fit the experience I had. I never had issues registering for any of my classes in mechanical engineering from freshman to senior year. Even the genED high demand courses were not difficult to register for.

I don't know what an expensive private university looks like. I am they offer a better environment than Buffalo, but Buffalo is not bad.

Buffalo is excellent and an underrated school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the significant drop in applications at Colgate, Middlebury, Bucknell. URochester, St, Lawrence, Kenyon, Oberlin, Hobart all struggle to fill enrollment targets. Moderate and Conservative kids/families don’t want that vibe at $100k for a meaningless degree from Northeast and Midwest Podunk locations. The facts are clear loads and loads of kids from high income families don’t need Syracuse and the others. Look at car decals on $100k luxury cars in most wealthy suburbs as long as the town is super lefty. Those folks aren’t going to Bama or Ole Miss.

Tuscaloosa, Alabama; Oxford, Mississippi; Athens, Georgia; Gainesville, Florida; Clemson, South Carolina

Now those are "Podunk" locations!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Syracuse is running a budget deficit due to declining enrollment. The last thing it should do is tap its endowment (which is mostly restricted anyways). It needs to cut expenses.

I listened to a podcast this morning about Syracuse. The speaker agrees that cutting expenses and developing a core focus is necessary.

The other key point made is that Syracuse is in a challenging place in the market. There are not many private schools with 15,000 students. And Suracuse is an high tuition enterprise. And historically Syracuse’s brand has been wrapped around top level D1 athletics and a robust research portfolio. Both are really expensive to sustain in the current environment. The days of Donovan McNabb leading a top 10 football team or Syracuse making a final four in basketball likely aren’t coming back soon. D1 athletics in the NIL era cost a fortune. And Syracuse dropped AAU research membership in 2011 for a reason - the association had narrow (to Syracuse) and expensive research criteria.

Virtually all schools are facing a demographic cliff but in a number of ways Syracuse’s challenges are its own.

[Anonymous]

Syracuse's former Southern peers like Tulane, Miami, and Wake Forest are now more desirable due to location, weather. Its former Northern peers like Northeastern, Rochester, Villanova are now a step above in ranking and selectivity. Where does that leave Syracuse? Not sure what its market is at the moment. It seems to not actually have a clear one, which might explain its current difficulties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Syracuse's former Southern peers like Tulane, Miami, and Wake Forest are now more desirable due to location, weather. Its former Northern peers like Northeastern, Rochester, Villanova are now a step above in ranking and selectivity. Where does that leave Syracuse? Not sure what its market is at the moment. It seems to not actually have a clear one, which might explain its current difficulties.

If its new market is Pitt, Clemson, Rutgers, then it needs to drastically cut COA to compete with those schools.

[Anonymous]

Syracuse is on the rise. It's a great option for high achieving students.