Black enrollment falls below 8% for every top 20 ranked liberal arts college in the country

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average Spelman/Howard (traditionally considered the best of the group) entering student is not going to get into any of these schools.

25-75% SAT at Spelman: 1128-1303
ACT: 22-29
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 25%


25-75% SAT at Howard: 1050-1250
ACT: 22-28
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: no info, but average GPA is 3.75 which isn't competitive for any of these LACs

25-75% SAT at Williams: 1500-1560
ACT: 34-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 89%

25-75% SAT at Richmond: 1430-1510
ACT: 33-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 70%

Actually many Spelman students are choosing between these schools and Spelman. Spelman is getting the best of the best but they also accept more students with potential.

There is more to intelligence than SAT scores. I work with some of the dumbest graduates and they are ivy grads. Smart but can't think themselves out of a paper bag. No common sense.

Sure one could be not so intelligent even with high SAT scores, but if you can't even crack SAT, then forget elite colleges.
There are plenty of good places for everyone. That's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average Spelman/Howard (traditionally considered the best of the group) entering student is not going to get into any of these schools.

25-75% SAT at Spelman: 1128-1303
ACT: 22-29
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 25%


25-75% SAT at Howard: 1050-1250
ACT: 22-28
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: no info, but average GPA is 3.75 which isn't competitive for any of these LACs

25-75% SAT at Williams: 1500-1560
ACT: 34-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 89%

25-75% SAT at Richmond: 1430-1510
ACT: 33-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 70%

Actually many Spelman students are choosing between these schools and Spelman. Spelman is getting the best of the best but they also accept more students with potential.

There is more to intelligence than SAT scores. I work with some of the dumbest graduates and they are ivy grads. Smart but can't think themselves out of a paper bag. No common sense.

These gaps are large enough that we can say there is a gap in cognitive ability. Whatever intelligence people were blessed with, the group with 1560 SAT scores have developed it more than the ones with 1240 SAT scores

College Board did a study that showed racial SAT score gaps shrink substantially or disappear when students attend the same schools, take the same advanced courses, and have comparable test preparation. The study demonstrated that the observed gap is explained by differences in educational opportunity.

That’s the exact opposite of every study I’ve ever seen. Poor whites and Asians (<30k HHI) outperform the most affluent black students (250k HHI) on the SAT. I’d be interested in seeing this study if it exists.

Did not outperform mine

And it feels SO good being able to say that. I spent my entire parenting life getting my kids ready for your attacks. I went through it at a T10 when I was younger. You people f'd with me the entire time.

Now I have black children in top schools who got there with 99th percentile scores, AP and IB tassles, and the same dog whistle ECs you guys notice.

So, sitting here in my POS house in a middling neighborhood with a bus pass I feel smug as heck knowing I beat you.

We are talking about statistics here, not fantasy stories.

Watching you flail because your arguments don't work against my family is dang satisfying. Chef's kiss. My boys exceed every standard you quote and instead of simply recognizing the effort and results you insist it must be fantasy.

I am the poster that said your kids were unicorns but at this point, I am calling bullshit.
Multiple poor black boys from the same family at T10 with 1520+ SAT scores is a stretch.
The notion that they were raised by a parent that reasons and argues like you is not believable.

Poor is relative, buddy. My alma mater says "elite" my paycheck says "UMC" my zip code says "middle class" my single income family status says "working class" and the one car shared by four of us share says "poor."

The effort we put into the kids says "patient and determined." The paid off tiny POS house we leave the kids says "sensible."

The world is full of people making the best of their circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you act like prisons in Asia are full of well raised and well behaved children of superior culture. Numbers for index crimes in that part of the world are available.

Tell us all again about this culture gap?

What crime indices are you looking at?
The crime indices for those countries is lower than in the USA. By a lot. You simply cannot compare crime in places like Singapore and Japan to America.

Are you actually arguing that the 7000 monsters convicted of murder in China recently are somehow culturally superior to the 20,000 monsters who did so in the States?

I'm arguing that 7000 out of 1.4 billion is better than 20,000 out of 340K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average Spelman/Howard (traditionally considered the best of the group) entering student is not going to get into any of these schools.

25-75% SAT at Spelman: 1128-1303
ACT: 22-29
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 25%


25-75% SAT at Howard: 1050-1250
ACT: 22-28
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: no info, but average GPA is 3.75 which isn't competitive for any of these LACs

25-75% SAT at Williams: 1500-1560
ACT: 34-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 89%

25-75% SAT at Richmond: 1430-1510
ACT: 33-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 70%

Actually many Spelman students are choosing between these schools and Spelman. Spelman is getting the best of the best but they also accept more students with potential.

There is more to intelligence than SAT scores. I work with some of the dumbest graduates and they are ivy grads. Smart but can't think themselves out of a paper bag. No common sense.

These gaps are large enough that we can say there is a gap in cognitive ability. Whatever intelligence people were blessed with, the group with 1560 SAT scores have developed it more than the ones with 1240 SAT scores

College Board did a study that showed racial SAT score gaps shrink substantially or disappear when students attend the same schools, take the same advanced courses, and have comparable test preparation. The study demonstrated that the observed gap is explained by differences in educational opportunity.

That’s the exact opposite of every study I’ve ever seen. Poor whites and Asians (<30k HHI) outperform the most affluent black students (250k HHI) on the SAT. I’d be interested in seeing this study if it exists.

Did not outperform mine

And it feels SO good being able to say that. I spent my entire parenting life getting my kids ready for your attacks. I went through it at a T10 when I was younger. You people f'd with me the entire time.

Now I have black children in top schools who got there with 99th percentile scores, AP and IB tassles, and the same dog whistle ECs you guys notice.

So, sitting here in my POS house in a middling neighborhood with a bus pass I feel smug as heck knowing I beat you.

We are talking about statistics here, not fantasy stories.

Watching you flail because your arguments don't work against my family is dang satisfying. Chef's kiss. My boys exceed every standard you quote and instead of simply recognizing the effort and results you insist it must be fantasy.

I am the poster that said your kids were unicorns but at this point, I am calling bullshit.
Multiple poor black boys from the same family at T10 with 1520+ SAT scores is a stretch.
The notion that they were raised by a parent that reasons and argues like you is not believable.

Poor is relative, buddy. My alma mater says "elite" my paycheck says "UMC" my zip code says "middle class" my single income family status says "working class" and the one car shared by four of us share says "poor."

The effort we put into the kids says "patient and determined." The paid off tiny POS house we leave the kids says "sensible."

The world is full of people making the best of their circumstances.

Do you have debt or something? Otherwise, you’re just gambling away all your money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

The obvious solution is just improving education for poor people. We throw more money at poor schools than schools in upper middle class neighborhoods. Schools should also set application test score floor minimums. We don't need to lower the standards for everyone, we need to raise the standard for those with the least, because they can rise past the challenge. Poor students with adequate academic training have much higher graduation rates and easier experiences in undergrad than students who are lackluster and stumble into a program with much higher expectations than they know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

Rage baiting. Possibly sock puppeting as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

The obvious solution is just improving education for poor people. We throw more money at poor schools than schools in upper middle class neighborhoods. Schools should also set application test score floor minimums. We don't need to lower the standards for everyone, we need to raise the standard for those with the least, because they can rise past the challenge. Poor students with adequate academic training have much higher graduation rates and easier experiences in undergrad than students who are lackluster and stumble into a program with much higher expectations than they know.

Or just reverse SFFA and restore DEIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

The obvious solution is just improving education for poor people. We throw more money at poor schools than schools in upper middle class neighborhoods. Schools should also set application test score floor minimums. We don't need to lower the standards for everyone, we need to raise the standard for those with the least, because they can rise past the challenge. Poor students with adequate academic training have much higher graduation rates and easier experiences in undergrad than students who are lackluster and stumble into a program with much higher expectations than they know.

Or just reverse SFFA and restore DEIA.

I am not racist, so I believe poor black students can be just as intelligent as a rich white, asian, or latino student. It is nonsense that we have to discriminate against Asian students, because black students aren't doing well.

[Anonymous]

DEFINITELY sock puppeting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you act like prisons in Asia are full of well raised and well behaved children of superior culture. Numbers for index crimes in that part of the world are available.

Tell us all again about this culture gap?

What crime indices are you looking at?
The crime indices for those countries is lower than in the USA. By a lot. You simply cannot compare crime in places like Singapore and Japan to America.

Are you actually arguing that the 7000 monsters convicted of murder in China recently are somehow culturally superior to the 20,000 monsters who did so in the States?

I'm arguing that 7000 out of 1.4 billion is better than 20,000 out of 340K.

So when a father buries his daughter who was graped before being murdered you feel he can take some solace in knowing that it happened in China where such monstrosities are less common???

How can you paper over any amount of craven evil with a whataboutism??? What is wrong with you?!?!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average Spelman/Howard (traditionally considered the best of the group) entering student is not going to get into any of these schools.

25-75% SAT at Spelman: 1128-1303
ACT: 22-29
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 25%


25-75% SAT at Howard: 1050-1250
ACT: 22-28
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: no info, but average GPA is 3.75 which isn't competitive for any of these LACs

25-75% SAT at Williams: 1500-1560
ACT: 34-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 89%

25-75% SAT at Richmond: 1430-1510
ACT: 33-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 70%

Actually many Spelman students are choosing between these schools and Spelman. Spelman is getting the best of the best but they also accept more students with potential.

There is more to intelligence than SAT scores. I work with some of the dumbest graduates and they are ivy grads. Smart but can't think themselves out of a paper bag. No common sense.

These gaps are large enough that we can say there is a gap in cognitive ability. Whatever intelligence people were blessed with, the group with 1560 SAT scores have developed it more than the ones with 1240 SAT scores

College Board did a study that showed racial SAT score gaps shrink substantially or disappear when students attend the same schools, take the same advanced courses, and have comparable test preparation. The study demonstrated that the observed gap is explained by differences in educational opportunity.

That’s the exact opposite of every study I’ve ever seen. Poor whites and Asians (<30k HHI) outperform the most affluent black students (250k HHI) on the SAT. I’d be interested in seeing this study if it exists.

Did not outperform mine

And it feels SO good being able to say that. I spent my entire parenting life getting my kids ready for your attacks. I went through it at a T10 when I was younger. You people f'd with me the entire time.

Now I have black children in top schools who got there with 99th percentile scores, AP and IB tassles, and the same dog whistle ECs you guys notice.

So, sitting here in my POS house in a middling neighborhood with a bus pass I feel smug as heck knowing I beat you.

But you know better than most that your kids are unicorns.
I wish them the best but top 1% is not that rare in some communities.
10% of asian kids get a 99th percentile test score.

Your single example doesn't really undermine the general argument being made above.

Got some support for that 10% of Asian kids number? My kids go to a top Bay Area private and I can say without a doubt that even among our privileged group far less than 10% of the Asian kids got anywhere near a top 1% score. A top 5% score maybe but not top 1%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average Spelman/Howard (traditionally considered the best of the group) entering student is not going to get into any of these schools.

25-75% SAT at Spelman: 1128-1303
ACT: 22-29
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 25%


25-75% SAT at Howard: 1050-1250
ACT: 22-28
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: no info, but average GPA is 3.75 which isn't competitive for any of these LACs

25-75% SAT at Williams: 1500-1560
ACT: 34-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 89%

25-75% SAT at Richmond: 1430-1510
ACT: 33-35
Ranked in top 10% of their HS class: 70%

Actually many Spelman students are choosing between these schools and Spelman. Spelman is getting the best of the best but they also accept more students with potential.

There is more to intelligence than SAT scores. I work with some of the dumbest graduates and they are ivy grads. Smart but can't think themselves out of a paper bag. No common sense.

These gaps are large enough that we can say there is a gap in cognitive ability. Whatever intelligence people were blessed with, the group with 1560 SAT scores have developed it more than the ones with 1240 SAT scores

College Board did a study that showed racial SAT score gaps shrink substantially or disappear when students attend the same schools, take the same advanced courses, and have comparable test preparation. The study demonstrated that the observed gap is explained by differences in educational opportunity.

PP here.

OK. I agree. If you raise non-asian children the way asians raise their children, you get similar results. Or at least more similar results.

The fact is that kids of the same SES still have these large racial gaps. That isn't an opportunity gap, that is an effort gap. A cultural gap.

You’re conceding the key point and then ignoring it. If racial SAT gaps shrink or disappear when students attend the same schools, take the same advanced courses, and get the same prep, then opportunity clearly drives the gap not culture.

Higher SES does not mean same opportunity. If it were only due to culture or student effort, the gap wouldn't close when given the same opportunities.

It doesn't close; it shrinks.

At any given school, the asian students tend to outperform the rest of the students. This is effort and culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

Nothing aside from the racism.

You are holding people back because they belong to a racial group that succeeds more often than other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe the DCUM posters who want to hold back highly intelligent students because they're Asian. How racist.

Look, it’s basic DEIA, ok? Nobody is holding anyone back.

We are just saying that when it comes to admissions, URMs simply deserve a helping-hand, just to level the playing field. Equity benefits everyone.

What’s wrong with that?

The obvious solution is just improving education for poor people. We throw more money at poor schools than schools in upper middle class neighborhoods. Schools should also set application test score floor minimums. We don't need to lower the standards for everyone, we need to raise the standard for those with the least, because they can rise past the challenge. Poor students with adequate academic training have much higher graduation rates and easier experiences in undergrad than students who are lackluster and stumble into a program with much higher expectations than they know.

Or just reverse SFFA and restore DEIA.

I don't see any court reversing SFFA. You would need a constitutional amendment to repeal or amend the 14th amendment. But good luck trying.