Are We Crazy for Questioning a $250k US Degree and looking abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey everyone,
Following up on the conversations I see around here and other places about why more US students are looking at universities overseas. I've been going down the rabbit hole on this with my husband and my kids. My son is a Junior and daughter a Freshman. Thye have both brought up the possibility of maybe going abroad for college. My husband went to grad school in the UK and Italy so he is all for it. I’m not yet sold on it.

While it's tempting to focus on the positives, I think it's smarter to start with the real-world downsides. The biggest one for me is the career question. Let's be honest, if you go to Oxford, Cambridge, or LSE, your degree will open doors anywhere. But what if you go to a really solid, but less famous, university in the UK, Netherlands, Italy or Canada? How do grads from those schools do when they try to find a job back in the States? I worry that a hiring manager in, say, Chicago might just toss a resume because they don't recognize the school's name.

You're also thousands of miles away from US-based career fairs and the alumni network that helps people land their first job. A college consultant who specializes in EU/Canadian and UK schools actually told us that outside of Oxbridge and LSE/Imperial, we should focus only on the top 12 schools in the UK or the top 3 in each of the other EU countries. Her reasoning was that all US grad schools and the vast majority of top US companies know these specific schools, even if the general public doesn't. She said the real issue is with local or regional employers who won't recognize the name. But her point was, if your goal is to work for a local company back home, then why go abroad in the first place?

Beyond that, you're obviously giving up the traditional "American college experience." The whole campus life, dorm culture, college sports, and clubs are just a different world over there. And we can't ignore the personal side. It's a huge move. You have to deal with visa paperwork, international banking, and the very real possibility of getting homesick and not having your support system a quick flight away. It’s a serious trade-off that goes way beyond academics. This mom is a little concerned.

Now with the scary stuff out of the way, the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate. But beyond the practical stuff, I realize there's the huge benefit of actually living in a different culture for three or four years. I have to imagine that navigating a new country, becoming more independent, and seeing the world from a completely different perspective forces you to grow as an individual in a way that staying in the US just can't replicate. For kids with an interest in global business, History, Languages or international relations, this experience seems like a no-brainer. You'd be living and breathing cross-cultural communication and could potentially pick up another language, skills that can really set you apart.

But the last piece of the puzzle I was curious about was the return plan. It seems like coming back to the US for a graduate degree is a well-worn path. US Master's programs and even J.D. programs are very used to seeing applicants with international degrees. I wonder how many kids simply stay in Canada/EU/UK after graduation. Would love to hear from parents here who have had this experience before with their kids.

Sorry for the long post.

Hello, I’m the original poster. I’m sorry this thread got off track here. The intent of my post was to hear from parents who have had the experience of sending their kids abroad for college. Quite frankly I don’t care to hear from those who dont think it is a good idea. If that is what you want to debate, please create your own thread. This DCUM bickering is getting out of hand. For those saying, stay in state, the answer is no. It is not going to happen. Please let those who have had the experience of going through this before with their kids (abroad and then returning) comment on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Yet, supposedly around 500 Americans are studying at ETH Zurich as undergrads (the vast majority are from Switzerland...no surprise). Apparently, they were "better" than your kid even though they came from a pitiful HS system.

It's quite rare for anyone from a 1st world country to attend university outside of their home country. Why would it be odd for 8 of the top 15 students to not attend one of the top universities in their home country? The best students in the UK also attend Oxford and Cambridge and their excellent universities for the most part. They don't attend a US university because they could not get accepted to one of their excellent universities...they probably had the money and chose the international experience.

BTW, our high school system while a "disaster" still ranks ahead of Sweden, Belgium, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, France, Spain, Norway, Israel...maybe your view is those countries' high school systems are also a "disaster".

Curious. How do you figure the US high school system ranks ahead of those other countries? Source pls.

PISA rankings. Those are the international rankings of country education systems. 2022 is the most recent year that exists as they do this on a 3 year testing cycle.

https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country

Do you put much stock on the PISA scores? There’s been previous criticism about countries rigging the sampling. For a country like the US with such disparities in high school education it is probably a bit meaningless. When Massachusetts did it like a separate country, it ranked 8th globally on the reading score but the overall US ranked 18th, which suggests there are some states which are appallingly low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Why are you on a US website? Serious question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Why are you on a US website? Serious question.

Not PP. I thought it was a DC forum. Everyone in DC knows there are many thousands of people from all over the world here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.


Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

Just because you say it anonymously doesn’t make it true. Very very few American families are turning down Ivy League schools to study in Europe. If your kids are, you are a real exception to the rule.

And that you are seriously asserting that the USA isn’t far and away the preferred destination for foreign students means that you have no credibility.

You clearly do not possess the ability to engage with what is actually written.

To be clear for everyone else following along:

1) My point was never that the US isn't a popular destination. My point was that the world's 'brilliant students' have many goals, and to assume they all prefer the US is a US-centric view. These are two very different statements.

2) You are arguing against a point nobody made, which is the definition of a strawman argument.

This is no longer a productive discussion. I won't be engaging with you further. I'm going back to the actual topic

It’s not only a “popular” destination. It’s THE MOST POPULAR and by a long shot. We import way more students than we export and with good reason. That you refuse to concede that is very telling.

Show me the data. And put any conclusions in context of the size and population of the relevant countries. Because what you are saying sounds like typical American insular assumptions that they are the best. I’m from Europe and we absolutely hands down do not ever, under any circumstances believe that the US is superior to so other world renowned institutions.

OK, sure. It's not a "typical American insular assumption." It's supported by list after list after list. The only thing that's in dispute is to what extent the rest of the world is catching up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Yet, supposedly around 500 Americans are studying at ETH Zurich as undergrads (the vast majority are from Switzerland...no surprise). Apparently, they were "better" than your kid even though they came from a pitiful HS system.

It's quite rare for anyone from a 1st world country to attend university outside of their home country. Why would it be odd for 8 of the top 15 students to not attend one of the top universities in their home country? The best students in the UK also attend Oxford and Cambridge and their excellent universities for the most part. They don't attend a US university because they could not get accepted to one of their excellent universities...they probably had the money and chose the international experience.

BTW, our high school system while a "disaster" still ranks ahead of Sweden, Belgium, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, France, Spain, Norway, Israel...maybe your view is those countries' high school systems are also a "disaster".

Curious. How do you figure the US high school system ranks ahead of those other countries? Source pls.

PISA rankings. Those are the international rankings of country education systems. 2022 is the most recent year that exists as they do this on a 3 year testing cycle.

https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country

Do you put much stock on the PISA scores? There’s been previous criticism about countries rigging the sampling. For a country like the US with such disparities in high school education it is probably a bit meaningless. When Massachusetts did it like a separate country, it ranked 8th globally on the reading score but the overall US ranked 18th, which suggests there are some states which are appallingly low.

The US ranked #9 overall on the reading score...not much different than MA. The US was 34th in Math and 16th in Science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Nothing is more pretentious and ridiculous than a European on an American website lecturing us about the American higher educational system. Why are you even here??

Regardless, yours is clearly the minority view on which nation on the planet has to highest reputed university system. It isn't even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Nothing is more pretentious and ridiculous than a European on an American website lecturing us about the American higher educational system. Why are you even here??

Regardless, yours is clearly the minority view on which nation on the planet has to highest reputed university system. It isn't even close.

Who cares about the "average" American high school? It's upper middle class suburban, selective magnets, and expensive private schools that are relevant. Get that average American HS crap out of here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Nothing is more pretentious and ridiculous than a European on an American website lecturing us about the American higher educational system. Why are you even here??

Regardless, yours is clearly the minority view on which nation on the planet has to highest reputed university system. It isn't even close.

And you inability to understand plain written English continues. Doesn’t surprise me reading scores are so low.
Am I lecturing on American higher educational system? Maybe you will understand this in plain English: You are a moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Nothing is more pretentious and ridiculous than a European on an American website lecturing us about the American higher educational system. Why are you even here??

Regardless, yours is clearly the minority view on which nation on the planet has to highest reputed university system. It isn't even close.

And you inability to understand plain written English continues. Doesn’t surprise me reading scores are so low.
Am I lecturing on American higher educational system? Maybe you will understand this in plain English: You are a moron.

DP. Sorry but you lost. You’re writing paragraphs bashing the American education system and even Americans while you’re on an American website and likely using an iPhone. Let me guess, you’re also eating a Big Mac?

I’m sure you’re convinced we are all morons who suck, but if we are so stupid and uneducated why does your country require our technology and military to function?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

My oh my - we went to a fancy Swiss boarding school and now we’re slumming it at Stanford. I hope your kid is not as obnoxious as you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

My oh my - we went to a fancy Swiss boarding school and now we’re slumming it at Stanford. I hope your kid is not as obnoxious as you are.

Pp has probably made their child recognizable. Should ask moderator to delete their posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

My oh my - we went to a fancy Swiss boarding school and now we’re slumming it at Stanford. I hope your kid is not as obnoxious as you are.

It begs the question…is there only one decent college in Switzerland?

I mean, if my kid gets rejected by MIT, I look at CMU and Ga Tech. I don’t have to flee the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey everyone,
Following up on the conversations I see around here and other places about why more US students are looking at universities overseas. I've been going down the rabbit hole on this with my husband and my kids. My son is a Junior and daughter a Freshman. Thye have both brought up the possibility of maybe going abroad for college. My husband went to grad school in the UK and Italy so he is all for it. I’m not yet sold on it.

While it's tempting to focus on the positives, I think it's smarter to start with the real-world downsides. The biggest one for me is the career question. Let's be honest, if you go to Oxford, Cambridge, or LSE, your degree will open doors anywhere. But what if you go to a really solid, but less famous, university in the UK, Netherlands, Italy or Canada? How do grads from those schools do when they try to find a job back in the States? I worry that a hiring manager in, say, Chicago might just toss a resume because they don't recognize the school's name.

You're also thousands of miles away from US-based career fairs and the alumni network that helps people land their first job. A college consultant who specializes in EU/Canadian and UK schools actually told us that outside of Oxbridge and LSE/Imperial, we should focus only on the top 12 schools in the UK or the top 3 in each of the other EU countries. Her reasoning was that all US grad schools and the vast majority of top US companies know these specific schools, even if the general public doesn't. She said the real issue is with local or regional employers who won't recognize the name. But her point was, if your goal is to work for a local company back home, then why go abroad in the first place?

Beyond that, you're obviously giving up the traditional "American college experience." The whole campus life, dorm culture, college sports, and clubs are just a different world over there. And we can't ignore the personal side. It's a huge move. You have to deal with visa paperwork, international banking, and the very real possibility of getting homesick and not having your support system a quick flight away. It’s a serious trade-off that goes way beyond academics. This mom is a little concerned.

Now with the scary stuff out of the way, the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate. But beyond the practical stuff, I realize there's the huge benefit of actually living in a different culture for three or four years. I have to imagine that navigating a new country, becoming more independent, and seeing the world from a completely different perspective forces you to grow as an individual in a way that staying in the US just can't replicate. For kids with an interest in global business, History, Languages or international relations, this experience seems like a no-brainer. You'd be living and breathing cross-cultural communication and could potentially pick up another language, skills that can really set you apart.

But the last piece of the puzzle I was curious about was the return plan. It seems like coming back to the US for a graduate degree is a well-worn path. US Master's programs and even J.D. programs are very used to seeing applicants with international degrees. I wonder how many kids simply stay in Canada/EU/UK after graduation. Would love to hear from parents here who have had this experience before with their kids.

Sorry for the long post.

Hello, I’m the original poster. I’m sorry this thread got off track here. The intent of my post was to hear from parents who have had the experience of sending their kids abroad for college. Quite frankly I don’t care to hear from those who dont think it is a good idea. If that is what you want to debate, please create your own thread. This DCUM bickering is getting out of hand. For those saying, stay in state, the answer is no. It is not going to happen. Please let those who have had the experience of going through this before with their kids (abroad and then returning) comment on this thread.

You're not the moderator and don't get to say who can post what or where.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Nothing is more pretentious and ridiculous than a European on an American website lecturing us about the American higher educational system. Why are you even here??

Regardless, yours is clearly the minority view on which nation on the planet has to highest reputed university system. It isn't even close.

Who cares about the "average" American high school? It's upper middle class suburban, selective magnets, and expensive private schools that are relevant. Get that average American HS crap out of here.

We're talking about colleges and universities -- not high schools. Read what you're responding to again, moron.