Are We Crazy for Questioning a $250k US Degree and looking abroad?

[Anonymous]

Let's get one thing straight, ok? All the talk about Australia, Canada and even to some extent the UK having more international students than the USA given their much smaller sizes? It's not because they're perceived as "better" university systems than the USA -- it's because their admissions standards are lower because in country competition is lower. Foreign students are also a much more significant source of revenue than they are in the USA. Unlike the USA, these countries charged foreign students much more than they charge locals.
These countries NEED foreign students.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

First of all, 27% acceptance rate is an overall acceptance rate. HE applied to Computer Science. And I konw you have little attitude, but let me put this way. ETH gets the top of the top. My Son scored 1600 in the easy SAT in one sitting. Scored 5’s on every AP test he took (he went to a boarding school here in Switzerland without AP courses). He is fluent in 5 languages. American tests are ridiculously easy for the best Swiss kids.

So please, get off you American high horse. Your HS system is pitiful and a complete disaster. Don’t come in here pretending you know it all. Because you clearly do not.

So...once more...what you are saying makes no sense. You essentially are admitting one of two things: (i) that your kid completely f**ked up the application, or (ii) ETH employs an even more nutso holistic admissions process than US schools (even though they claim to not do that).

There is no high horse, but simply poking holes in your fabricated story.

It's interesting though that you decided to attend Stanford considering our HS system is "pitiful and a complete disaster" which doesn't really have anything to do with anything...considering this entire thread is about US kids successfully applying and gaining acceptance to some of the top European universities.

Your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning is staggering. Let me, the foreigner in the room, be painfully clear, even if it means descending to a level of simplicity a native English speaker such as yourself can comprehend. If you'd prefer another language for this remedial lesson, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese, simply ask.

Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

You then commit the intellectually lazy error of conflating this with an attack on your elite universities. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once: your high schools are fundamentally broken, AND your top research institutions are excellent. Why can't you? There is no linkage, and my original statement made that perfectly clear.

Your worldview is laughably Americentric. The notion that all the “best of the best” flock to your undergraduate programs is a fantasy you tell yourselves. An institution like ETH Zurich doesn't need your validation. The only fabricated thing here is your pathetic allergy to facts.

You derailed this entire conversation because your ego couldn't handle a simple economic critique. This thread began by questioning the absurd cost, a quarter of a million dollars plus, for a frankly mediocre T100 American university. Your response was a delusional tirade about being the "envy of the world."

Here is one final data point for you. My son graduated 15th in his Swiss boarding school class. He treated your "rigorous" American entrance exams as a trivial exercise. Eight of the top fifteen students from his school are now at ETH. This isn't a coincidence. It's a choice made by those who prioritize substance over marketing. The fact that Stanford was his second choice should tell you everything you need to know.

Nothing is more pretentious and ridiculous than a European on an American website lecturing us about the American higher educational system. Why are you even here??

Regardless, yours is clearly the minority view on which nation on the planet has to highest reputed university system. It isn't even close.

And you inability to understand plain written English continues. Doesn’t surprise me reading scores are so low.
Am I lecturing on American higher educational system? Maybe you will understand this in plain English: You are a moron.

DP. Sorry but you lost. You’re writing paragraphs bashing the American education system and even Americans while you’re on an American website and likely using an iPhone. Let me guess, you’re also eating a Big Mac?

I’m sure you’re convinced we are all morons who suck, but if we are so stupid and uneducated why does your country require our technology and military to function?

let’s stop responding to this idiot who is destroying this thread. Sorry OP

[Anonymous]

If anyone else has anything else to contribute to the OP’s question, please go ahead. If you dont have any kid going to school abroad or graduating from a school abroad then please refrain from posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's get one thing straight, ok? All the talk about Australia, Canada and even to some extent the UK having more international students than the USA given their much smaller sizes? It's not because they're perceived as "better" university systems than the USA -- it's because their admissions standards are lower because in country competition is lower. Foreign students are also a much more significant source of revenue than they are in the USA. Unlike the USA, these countries charged foreign students much more than they charge locals.
These countries NEED foreign students.

I suppose? I guess why apply to the University of Sydney which ranks #18 on the QS World Rankings when you can go to Illinois which ranks #69 or North Texas which is #1001. Both are in the top 10 schools hosting the most international students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

My son was a good but not spectacular student in wildly uneven honors high school.

He now has two degrees from two EU universities that outrank ETH in his field. His classmates were supposed to come in with a gymnasium education or the equivalent.

My son never has any trouble with competing with the EU-educated students, and he never felt that they had an advantage because they came in with a better education.

Gymnasium students may be a lot better prepared than average U.S. high school students, but gymnasium schools are more directly comparable to Thomas Jefferson and Stuyvesant. Good U.S. test school students are roughly as well-educated test school students elsewhere in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's get one thing straight, ok? All the talk about Australia, Canada and even to some extent the UK having more international students than the USA given their much smaller sizes? It's not because they're perceived as "better" university systems than the USA -- it's because their admissions standards are lower because in country competition is lower. Foreign students are also a much more significant source of revenue than they are in the USA. Unlike the USA, these countries charged foreign students much more than they charge locals.
These countries NEED foreign students.

I suppose? I guess why apply to the University of Sydney which ranks #18 on the QS World Rankings when you can go to Illinois which ranks #69 or North Texas which is #1001. Both are in the top 10 schools hosting the most international students.

Half the students at University of Sydney are foreign, and half of those are from China. This isn’t surprising since the two countries are in the same time zone. Still, more Chinese students choose to study in the USA even though we are half a world away. Why? Because we have the superior reputation.

Higher education is a huge money maker for Australia. It’s their fourth biggest export. They market their universities aggressively in Asian countries because they want—need—the tuition money. They’re aren’t enough Australian students to fill their classrooms. THAT’S why their international enrollment is so high compared to the USA.

[Anonymous]

I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

[Anonymous]

Let’s hope the USA never becomes THIS dependent on international students.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s hope the USA never becomes THIS dependent on international students.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340

I suppose. But Aussies can get a 7 year medical degree for a TOTAL tuition fee of $85,000 at the University of Sydney which is ranked 25th in the world on the QS Global Ranking. Some might prefer that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s hope the USA never becomes THIS dependent on international students.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340

I suppose. But Aussies can get a 7 year medical degree for a TOTAL tuition fee of $85,000 at the University of Sydney which is ranked 25th in the world on the QS Global Ranking. Some might prefer that.

That’s US$56,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's get one thing straight, ok? All the talk about Australia, Canada and even to some extent the UK having more international students than the USA given their much smaller sizes? It's not because they're perceived as "better" university systems than the USA -- it's because their admissions standards are lower because in country competition is lower. Foreign students are also a much more significant source of revenue than they are in the USA. Unlike the USA, these countries charged foreign students much more than they charge locals.
These countries NEED foreign students.

I suppose? I guess why apply to the University of Sydney which ranks #18 on the QS World Rankings when you can go to Illinois which ranks #69 or North Texas which is #1001. Both are in the top 10 schools hosting the most international students.

Half the students at University of Sydney are foreign, and half of those are from China. This isn’t surprising since the two countries are in the same time zone. Still, more Chinese students choose to study in the USA even though we are half a world away. Why? Because we have the superior reputation.

Higher education is a huge money maker for Australia. It’s their fourth biggest export. They market their universities aggressively in Asian countries because they want—need—the tuition money. They’re aren’t enough Australian students to fill their classrooms. THAT’S why their international enrollment is so high compared to the USA.

GO USA !!! GO USA !!! GO USA !!!

We are the envy of the world. The world loves us. Foreign students are dying to come here. Why should OP question a $250k degree? Probably because OP is an idiot!!!

GO USA !!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

Exactly. They can’t get into the top USA schools so they go abroad and tell themselves they’re special.

You are insufferable. Despite the clear evidence in this thread and elsewhere that this is BS, you wont give up your BS stories. What a sad housewife you are….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

My son was a good but not spectacular student in wildly uneven honors high school.

He now has two degrees from two EU universities that outrank ETH in his field. His classmates were supposed to come in with a gymnasium education or the equivalent.

My son never has any trouble with competing with the EU-educated students, and he never felt that they had an advantage because they came in with a better education.

Gymnasium students may be a lot better prepared than average U.S. high school students, but gymnasium schools are more directly comparable to Thomas Jefferson and Stuyvesant. Good U.S. test school students are roughly as well-educated test school students elsewhere in the world.

Your son has done exceptionally well despite his circumstances. I think he is still a data point of 1. If the education system is better in Europe then MORE people achieve great things. That's the equation.

I'm afraid that the US educational system (schools) is considered one of the worst in the world, with the lowest levels of literacy and math skills. It's not an insult to note this, just a fact.

I'm from the UK but I had a mostly US high school education and all my children were raised in the US. What it gives you is confidence. The US is not a nation of people side stepping to avoid their own opportunities, or constantly apologizing "to be polite", its a nation of people forging forward, to make the best of themselves in the belief they can do so. And there's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that many of them really aren't up to the task. Confidence is 80% of the battle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

My kids didn’t apply to any US schools. So I don’t think your “they are just rejects from good US universities” holds up. Can you not conceive of the fact that some kids genuinely prefer the university experience abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

My son was a good but not spectacular student in wildly uneven honors high school.

He now has two degrees from two EU universities that outrank ETH in his field. His classmates were supposed to come in with a gymnasium education or the equivalent.

My son never has any trouble with competing with the EU-educated students, and he never felt that they had an advantage because they came in with a better education.

Gymnasium students may be a lot better prepared than average U.S. high school students, but gymnasium schools are more directly comparable to Thomas Jefferson and Stuyvesant. Good U.S. test school students are roughly as well-educated test school students elsewhere in the world.

Your son has done exceptionally well despite his circumstances. I think he is still a data point of 1. If the education system is better in Europe then MORE people achieve great things. That's the equation.

I'm afraid that the US educational system (schools) is considered one of the worst in the world, with the lowest levels of literacy and math skills. It's not an insult to note this, just a fact.

I'm from the UK but I had a mostly US high school education and all my children were raised in the US. What it gives you is confidence. The US is not a nation of people side stepping to avoid their own opportunities, or constantly apologizing "to be polite", its a nation of people forging forward, to make the best of themselves in the belief they can do so. And there's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that many of them really aren't up to the task. Confidence is 80% of the battle.

This is just blatantly untrue. The UK students perform better than US students on international tests, but we rank ahead of Germany, France, Norway, Netherlands, Austria and other European countries.

We rank 18th out of 74 countries. We should be higher, but by no means are we one of the worst or even considered one of the worst.