Antisemitism vs anticatholicism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

I bet you're fun at parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

Just your opinion, obviously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

It's likely that some Zionists don't see themselves that way, They are simply pro-israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

The history can no longer be changed. Unless you’re planning to move 8 million Jewish Israelis elsewhere, whatever happens in the future has to account for Israel existing. But plenty of people who describe ourselves in some form as Zionists are well aware of the Nakba and the very ugly way the state was born. Many of us oppose the ethnostate law that the Knesset passed. You’re trying to set up a binary that flattens everything into categories that ultimately cuts out people who should be natural allies of the goal of a more just future for Palestinians and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

[Anonymous]

Roast Guice I know don’t even believe in God certainly they can’t believe in biblical imperatives.

[Anonymous]

That’s “most Jews “ not roast Guice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

This. Zionism is not merely the belief in a Jewish homeland. Nothing comes without consequences. It isn't as if Israel was some empty piece of land - people lived there. Palestinians LIVE there. Kicking them out for the sake of your "homeland" is inherently violent.

Finding and buying an empty, deserted piece of land for a homeland? Ok, sure. But Israel wasn't created without severe costs to others. If you support zionism, you inherently support violence.

[Anonymous]

Pharisees vs. Philistines

Hard to root for anybody here, tbh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

The history can no longer be changed. Unless you’re planning to move 8 million Jewish Israelis elsewhere, whatever happens in the future has to account for Israel existing. But plenty of people who describe ourselves in some form as Zionists are well aware of the Nakba and the very ugly way the state was born. Many of us oppose the ethnostate law that the Knesset passed. You’re trying to set up a binary that flattens everything into categories that ultimately cuts out people who should be natural allies of the goal of a more just future for Palestinians and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

I agree with the idea that it isn't practical or reasonable to imagine removing Jews who settled in Israel after WW2. But that doesn't mean that it reasonable to deny Palestinians rights in those areas. That's what makes Zionism bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

The history can no longer be changed. Unless you’re planning to move 8 million Jewish Israelis elsewhere, whatever happens in the future has to account for Israel existing. But plenty of people who describe ourselves in some form as Zionists are well aware of the Nakba and the very ugly way the state was born. Many of us oppose the ethnostate law that the Knesset passed. You’re trying to set up a binary that flattens everything into categories that ultimately cuts out people who should be natural allies of the goal of a more just future for Palestinians and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

I agree with the idea that it isn't practical or reasonable to imagine removing Jews who settled in Israel after WW2. But that doesn't mean that it reasonable to deny Palestinians rights in those areas. That's what makes Zionism bad.

Yes, and many people who are Zionists (and therefore "bad") agree with you that it's not reasonable to deny Palestinians rights. We just also don't want Israel to disappear tomorrow, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

The history can no longer be changed. Unless you’re planning to move 8 million Jewish Israelis elsewhere, whatever happens in the future has to account for Israel existing. But plenty of people who describe ourselves in some form as Zionists are well aware of the Nakba and the very ugly way the state was born. Many of us oppose the ethnostate law that the Knesset passed. You’re trying to set up a binary that flattens everything into categories that ultimately cuts out people who should be natural allies of the goal of a more just future for Palestinians and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

I agree with the idea that it isn't practical or reasonable to imagine removing Jews who settled in Israel after WW2. But that doesn't mean that it reasonable to deny Palestinians rights in those areas. That's what makes Zionism bad.

Yes, and many people who are Zionists (and therefore "bad") agree with you that it's not reasonable to deny Palestinians rights. We just also don't want Israel to disappear tomorrow, either.

But you see nothing wrong with Israel's creation? Like "so sad for the Palestinians, but we needed to remove them in order to have our homeland." That's not exactly a remotely compassionate attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

This. Zionism is not merely the belief in a Jewish homeland. Nothing comes without consequences. It isn't as if Israel was some empty piece of land - people lived there. Palestinians LIVE there. Kicking them out for the sake of your "homeland" is inherently violent.

Finding and buying an empty, deserted piece of land for a homeland? Ok, sure. But Israel wasn't created without severe costs to others. If you support zionism, you inherently support violence.

Great, so what do you want to do about it going forward? This is not an argument in the 1890s or 1920s or 1940s about whether to start allowing Jews to migrate there. (Many of whom did, in fact, buy empty parcels of land, though I don't say that to deny that many others also murdered inhabitants or otherwise forced them out violently.) I don't see the point in litigating "should Israel have been founded" when it's already existed for almost 80 years.

But Zionism IS, in fact, merely the belief in a Jewish homeland, or at least, it can be. It certainly doesn't have to be the maximalist version espoused by the Israeli government and many of its allies. Why are you trying to tell me I have to choose between Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir, on one hand, and people who think there shouldn't be a state of Israel at all, on the other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

The history can no longer be changed. Unless you’re planning to move 8 million Jewish Israelis elsewhere, whatever happens in the future has to account for Israel existing. But plenty of people who describe ourselves in some form as Zionists are well aware of the Nakba and the very ugly way the state was born. Many of us oppose the ethnostate law that the Knesset passed. You’re trying to set up a binary that flattens everything into categories that ultimately cuts out people who should be natural allies of the goal of a more just future for Palestinians and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

I agree with the idea that it isn't practical or reasonable to imagine removing Jews who settled in Israel after WW2. But that doesn't mean that it reasonable to deny Palestinians rights in those areas. That's what makes Zionism bad.

Yes, and many people who are Zionists (and therefore "bad") agree with you that it's not reasonable to deny Palestinians rights. We just also don't want Israel to disappear tomorrow, either.

But you see nothing wrong with Israel's creation? Like "so sad for the Palestinians, but we needed to remove them in order to have our homeland." That's not exactly a remotely compassionate attitude.

Who said that? I didn't say I see nothing wrong with Israel's creation. I'm happy to criticize the way it was formed and even happier to criticize many of its policies since then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

This. Zionism is not merely the belief in a Jewish homeland. Nothing comes without consequences. It isn't as if Israel was some empty piece of land - people lived there. Palestinians LIVE there. Kicking them out for the sake of your "homeland" is inherently violent.

Finding and buying an empty, deserted piece of land for a homeland? Ok, sure. But Israel wasn't created without severe costs to others. If you support zionism, you inherently support violence.

Great, so what do you want to do about it going forward? This is not an argument in the 1890s or 1920s or 1940s about whether to start allowing Jews to migrate there. (Many of whom did, in fact, buy empty parcels of land, though I don't say that to deny that many others also murdered inhabitants or otherwise forced them out violently.) I don't see the point in litigating "should Israel have been founded" when it's already existed for almost 80 years.

But Zionism IS, in fact, merely the belief in a Jewish homeland, or at least, it can be. It certainly doesn't have to be the maximalist version espoused by the Israeli government and many of its allies. Why are you trying to tell me I have to choose between Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir, on one hand, and people who think there shouldn't be a state of Israel at all, on the other?

Because this person is not having a discussion with you in good faith. They want Israel to cease to exists and are coming up with excuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.

No. We despise Zionism.

Zionism is code for Jews.

No, it's not. Zionism is the minority of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy.

Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is the modern liberal whitewashed version of Zionism that is really not grounded in reality.

Anybody who calls themselves a Zionist falls into one of two camps:

Evil: because they know exactly what Zionism has meant for Palestinians: displacement, massacres, occupation, apartheid. They see it, they accept it, and they justify it.

Ignorant: because they’ve bought the sanitized PR version of Zionism as “just Jewish self-determination,” without ever looking at the Nakba, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, or what “a Jewish ethnostate” on stolen land actually requires.

There’s no clean, innocent version of Zionism. Its history and its present are the same: violence and removal or elimination of Palestinians to a degree that allows Israel to exist.

This. Zionism is not merely the belief in a Jewish homeland. Nothing comes without consequences. It isn't as if Israel was some empty piece of land - people lived there. Palestinians LIVE there. Kicking them out for the sake of your "homeland" is inherently violent.

Finding and buying an empty, deserted piece of land for a homeland? Ok, sure. But Israel wasn't created without severe costs to others. If you support zionism, you inherently support violence.

Great, so what do you want to do about it going forward? This is not an argument in the 1890s or 1920s or 1940s about whether to start allowing Jews to migrate there. (Many of whom did, in fact, buy empty parcels of land, though I don't say that to deny that many others also murdered inhabitants or otherwise forced them out violently.) I don't see the point in litigating "should Israel have been founded" when it's already existed for almost 80 years.

But Zionism IS, in fact, merely the belief in a Jewish homeland, or at least, it can be. It certainly doesn't have to be the maximalist version espoused by the Israeli government and many of its allies. Why are you trying to tell me I have to choose between Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir, on one hand, and people who think there shouldn't be a state of Israel at all, on the other?

Because this person is not having a discussion with you in good faith. They want Israel to cease to exists and are coming up with excuses.

Yup. Nowadays anything short of rooting for pushing the Jews into the sea makes you “zio scum”. The world has gone mad.