DC CAPE SCORES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

It’s only valuable because we make standardized testing valuable. In a world where college admissions are- well we’re dropping such requirements.

It’s an artificial barrier that does not indicate any true skill. I agree with the other teacher in the sense that it is wasteful. Unfortunately due to the reality of US politics and classism teaching to test is important.

?? Colleges are reinstating testing requirements, not dropping them.

Learning how to analyze a question, make educated guesses, structure an argument, etc., are all skills needed in life, not just for standardized tests.

NP. I agree that learning the skills above have value but these skills should be learn as part of the curriculum in the analysis of whatever topic is being taught.

It is not an isolated skill to learn as part of a teach to the test.

In schools with strong curriculums that includes writing structures, analysis, critique, etc… the kids don’t need to be taught any teaching to the test. If kids lack learning these skills, that’s when you have to scramble and try to do some patchwork which only gets you so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how Stokes is one of the few schools that has most kids getting 4+ on both tests yet underperforms for 3+ given its at risk percentage. That indicates a significant achievement gap: mostly 4s and 5s but also more 1s and 2s than one might expect. If I were considering the school I would want to know how it works with such a range of students.

Stokes is a small school that can lead to some variation in the data. Not sure if why you would pick out Stokes, but here is some data that shows why Stokes is doing better than other well regarded schools.

- For economically disadvantaged kids scoring 3+ on ELA Stokes Brookland is 14 points higher than Janney and 18 points than Mann.

- For Black students there are a total of 6 ES in all of DC that have higher 3+ scores on the ELA portion. There are too many WOTP schools scoring lower to list, but Janney is 28 points lower.

- For Black students there are only 18 ES that have higher 3+ scores for math. Not as good there, but still 10 points above Janney.

So why would you call out Stokes and not Janney for achievement gaps? If I were a family of a Black child, I would think Stokes is a fine option.

A 3 is not considered on/above grade level in dcps. Only 4’s and 5’s are. Charters, however, include 3’s for some reason.

I'm at a charter and not sure what you mean. We get data on all kids for levels 1 to 5 on CAPE. Only 4s and 5s are considered proficient and on/above grade level. Only 4s and above are measured on the charter board report card (now called ASPIRE). On the other hand, the DC State Report Card includes both level 3 and level 4/5 performance when assessing DCPS and charters.

+1. It’s DCPS that groups the 3+ category with 4 and 5 together. The percentages of kids are so low for 4 and 5 that they group 3 together to make the stats look better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how Stokes is one of the few schools that has most kids getting 4+ on both tests yet underperforms for 3+ given its at risk percentage. That indicates a significant achievement gap: mostly 4s and 5s but also more 1s and 2s than one might expect. If I were considering the school I would want to know how it works with such a range of students.

Stokes is a small school that can lead to some variation in the data. Not sure if why you would pick out Stokes, but here is some data that shows why Stokes is doing better than other well regarded schools.

- For economically disadvantaged kids scoring 3+ on ELA Stokes Brookland is 14 points higher than Janney and 18 points than Mann.

- For Black students there are a total of 6 ES in all of DC that have higher 3+ scores on the ELA portion. There are too many WOTP schools scoring lower to list, but Janney is 28 points lower.

- For Black students there are only 18 ES that have higher 3+ scores for math. Not as good there, but still 10 points above Janney.

So why would you call out Stokes and not Janney for achievement gaps? If I were a family of a Black child, I would think Stokes is a fine option.

A 3 is not considered on/above grade level in dcps. Only 4’s and 5’s are. Charters, however, include 3’s for some reason.

I'm at a charter and not sure what you mean. We get data on all kids for levels 1 to 5 on CAPE. Only 4s and 5s are considered proficient and on/above grade level. Only 4s and above are measured on the charter board report card (now called ASPIRE). On the other hand, the DC State Report Card includes both level 3 and level 4/5 performance when assessing DCPS and charters.

+1. It’s DCPS that groups the 3+ category with 4 and 5 together. The percentages of kids are so low for 4 and 5 that they group 3 together to make the stats look better.

No. It’s OSSE. DCPS doesn’t assess itself or charter schools, obviously.

[Anonymous]

A generalization but the higher performing schools don’t do any teaching to the test such as my child’s school. My child and his peers do fine on CAPE.

Teaching to the test focus tends to be in the lower performing schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A generalization but the higher performing schools don’t do any teaching to the test such as my child’s school. My child and his peers do fine on CAPE.

Teaching to the test focus tends to be in the lower performing schools.

True at elementary level. There was no test prep at Lafayette. Not true at Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

Incorrect. My kid is in middle school.

No you don’t spend a month learning all that crap. That is just ridiculous. Maybe review in 1-# day, You don’t think kids know how to choose a,b, c or hit next? That kids have never used the computer before or did any app or took any test online before CAPE? I highly doubt that.

Do you know how many hours are in a month? 8 hour school day = 160 hours. So 160 hours to learn above?? Nope. Those hours are better spent actually learning content and NOT test taking skills.

You think 160 hours a week are spent in a classroom learning academics? Have you been in a school at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

Incorrect. My kid is in middle school.

No you don’t spend a month learning all that crap. That is just ridiculous. Maybe review in 1-# day, You don’t think kids know how to choose a,b, c or hit next? That kids have never used the computer before or did any app or took any test online before CAPE? I highly doubt that.

Do you know how many hours are in a month? 8 hour school day = 160 hours. So 160 hours to learn above?? Nope. Those hours are better spent actually learning content and NOT test taking skills.

You think 160 hours a week are spent in a classroom learning academics? Have you been in a school at all?

160 hours a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

It’s only valuable because we make standardized testing valuable. In a world where college admissions are- well we’re dropping such requirements.

It’s an artificial barrier that does not indicate any true skill. I agree with the other teacher in the sense that it is wasteful. Unfortunately due to the reality of US politics and classism teaching to test is important.

Meant to say ‘well we were dropping such requirements.’

Except, this isn't true... Competitive schools are bringing back the SAT (e.g., Yale) *and* no schools are dropping tests entirely... SAT IIs, APs, IB exams, etc. All of those are standardized tests that are hugely important for kids to do well on. Then there's the LSAT and the bar exam if your kid wants to be a lawyer. Or the MCAT and the various medical board exams for doctors. Or the CPA exam. Or the GRE. Etc. Etc. Tests are important for life for most kids looking for white collar jobs. Teaching test taking skills is helpful.

I said “We WERE,” as in the past tense.
It’s all arbitrary, tests for jobs vs. tests for school.
There are kids who also do well on various tests for jobs and then suck at the job. That is why doctors do not get to fully practice just after taking a test.

It is helpful if your child does not get the skills needed from actual teaching but if that’s the case I would not want my child to go to a school like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

It’s only valuable because we make standardized testing valuable. In a world where college admissions are- well we’re dropping such requirements.

It’s an artificial barrier that does not indicate any true skill. I agree with the other teacher in the sense that it is wasteful. Unfortunately due to the reality of US politics and classism teaching to test is important.

Meant to say ‘well we were dropping such requirements.’

Except, this isn't true... Competitive schools are bringing back the SAT (e.g., Yale) *and* no schools are dropping tests entirely... SAT IIs, APs, IB exams, etc. All of those are standardized tests that are hugely important for kids to do well on. Then there's the LSAT and the bar exam if your kid wants to be a lawyer. Or the MCAT and the various medical board exams for doctors. Or the CPA exam. Or the GRE. Etc. Etc. Tests are important for life for most kids looking for white collar jobs. Teaching test taking skills is helpful.

I said “We WERE,” as in the past tense.
It’s all arbitrary, tests for jobs vs. tests for school.
There are kids who also do well on various tests for jobs and then suck at the job. That is why doctors do not get to fully practice just after taking a test.

It is helpful if your child does not get the skills needed from actual teaching but if that’s the case I would not want my child to go to a school like that.

…. Pretty obvious you don’t know medicine (google the step exams)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

It’s only valuable because we make standardized testing valuable. In a world where college admissions are- well we’re dropping such requirements.

It’s an artificial barrier that does not indicate any true skill. I agree with the other teacher in the sense that it is wasteful. Unfortunately due to the reality of US politics and classism teaching to test is important.

Meant to say ‘well we were dropping such requirements.’

Except, this isn't true... Competitive schools are bringing back the SAT (e.g., Yale) *and* no schools are dropping tests entirely... SAT IIs, APs, IB exams, etc. All of those are standardized tests that are hugely important for kids to do well on. Then there's the LSAT and the bar exam if your kid wants to be a lawyer. Or the MCAT and the various medical board exams for doctors. Or the CPA exam. Or the GRE. Etc. Etc. Tests are important for life for most kids looking for white collar jobs. Teaching test taking skills is helpful.

I said “We WERE,” as in the past tense.
It’s all arbitrary, tests for jobs vs. tests for school.
There are kids who also do well on various tests for jobs and then suck at the job. That is why doctors do not get to fully practice just after taking a test.

It is helpful if your child does not get the skills needed from actual teaching but if that’s the case I would not want my child to go to a school like that.

The way I think about tests is that there are no "false positives." If someone does well on a test -- 5 on CAPE, or 1500 on SATs or 178 on LSAt or whatever, it tells you that this is a smart person who knows their stuff. There is no way to fake that.

If someone doesn't do well, I guess it's possible they know their stuff but are a "bad test taker" but there is no way to differentiate that person from someone who doesn't know their material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

Incorrect. My kid is in middle school.

No you don’t spend a month learning all that crap. That is just ridiculous. Maybe review in 1-# day, You don’t think kids know how to choose a,b, c or hit next? That kids have never used the computer before or did any app or took any test online before CAPE? I highly doubt that.

Do you know how many hours are in a month? 8 hour school day = 160 hours. So 160 hours to learn above?? Nope. Those hours are better spent actually learning content and NOT test taking skills.

You think 160 hours a week are spent in a classroom learning academics? Have you been in a school at all?

160 hours a month.

You are so totally missing the point…..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

It’s only valuable because we make standardized testing valuable. In a world where college admissions are- well we’re dropping such requirements.

It’s an artificial barrier that does not indicate any true skill. I agree with the other teacher in the sense that it is wasteful. Unfortunately due to the reality of US politics and classism teaching to test is important.

Meant to say ‘well we were dropping such requirements.’

Except, this isn't true... Competitive schools are bringing back the SAT (e.g., Yale) *and* no schools are dropping tests entirely... SAT IIs, APs, IB exams, etc. All of those are standardized tests that are hugely important for kids to do well on. Then there's the LSAT and the bar exam if your kid wants to be a lawyer. Or the MCAT and the various medical board exams for doctors. Or the CPA exam. Or the GRE. Etc. Etc. Tests are important for life for most kids looking for white collar jobs. Teaching test taking skills is helpful.

I said “We WERE,” as in the past tense.
It’s all arbitrary, tests for jobs vs. tests for school.
There are kids who also do well on various tests for jobs and then suck at the job. That is why doctors do not get to fully practice just after taking a test.

It is helpful if your child does not get the skills needed from actual teaching but if that’s the case I would not want my child to go to a school like that.

The way I think about tests is that there are no "false positives." If someone does well on a test -- 5 on CAPE, or 1500 on SATs or 178 on LSAt or whatever, it tells you that this is a smart person who knows their stuff. There is no way to fake that.

If someone doesn't do well, I guess it's possible they know their stuff but are a "bad test taker" but there is no way to differentiate that person from someone who doesn't know their material.

The reality is that standardized tests are not out to trick you. They are testing competency or proficiency in topics.

Everyone comes from different schools and academic backgrounds and to accurately access competency you need all to take the same test. This starts in elementary and goes all the way up to graduate and doctorate. In life, it’s the floor to gain consideration into higher levels of education, certification, or what have you.

Sure maybe you can get a few more points if you know some test taking tricks but if you don’t know first know the topic and then second can’t analyze or apply what you know, you will never do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

PP here, I also want to add that spending a month teaching to the test takes away from quality teaching that could have been done in those 30 days.

Incorrect. You sound like a parent who doesn't even have kids at testing age yet.

At young ages, teaching to the test is valuable just like any teaching is valuable. Kids are learning how to look at an exam question, how to sort through multiple choice answers, how to type a response, how to manage time during an exam, etc. All skills they will need throughout their school years. These skills take time to learn, especially when a child is only in 3rd grade, when CAPE begins.

It’s only valuable because we make standardized testing valuable. In a world where college admissions are- well we’re dropping such requirements.

It’s an artificial barrier that does not indicate any true skill. I agree with the other teacher in the sense that it is wasteful. Unfortunately due to the reality of US politics and classism teaching to test is important.

Meant to say ‘well we were dropping such requirements.’

Except, this isn't true... Competitive schools are bringing back the SAT (e.g., Yale) *and* no schools are dropping tests entirely... SAT IIs, APs, IB exams, etc. All of those are standardized tests that are hugely important for kids to do well on. Then there's the LSAT and the bar exam if your kid wants to be a lawyer. Or the MCAT and the various medical board exams for doctors. Or the CPA exam. Or the GRE. Etc. Etc. Tests are important for life for most kids looking for white collar jobs. Teaching test taking skills is helpful.

I said “We WERE,” as in the past tense.
It’s all arbitrary, tests for jobs vs. tests for school.
There are kids who also do well on various tests for jobs and then suck at the job. That is why doctors do not get to fully practice just after taking a test.

It is helpful if your child does not get the skills needed from actual teaching but if that’s the case I would not want my child to go to a school like that.

The way I think about tests is that there are no "false positives." If someone does well on a test -- 5 on CAPE, or 1500 on SATs or 178 on LSAt or whatever, it tells you that this is a smart person who knows their stuff. There is no way to fake that.

If someone doesn't do well, I guess it's possible they know their stuff but are a "bad test taker" but there is no way to differentiate that person from someone who doesn't know their material.

The reality is that standardized tests are not out to trick you. They are testing competency or proficiency in topics.

Everyone comes from different schools and academic backgrounds and to accurately access competency you need all to take the same test. This starts in elementary and goes all the way up to graduate and doctorate. In life, it’s the floor to gain consideration into higher levels of education, certification, or what have you.

Sure maybe you can get a few more points if you know some test taking tricks but if you don’t know first know the topic and then second can’t analyze or apply what you know, you will never do well.

Standardized tests are also (supposed to) test processing speed- except with the advent of “everyone gets double time for ADHD,” this is waning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think smart kids with average teaching will score 4s. Smart kids with very good/effective teachers may score 5s. A high concentration of 5s shows you something about the teaching quality.

CAPE/PARCC is a weird test. My kid scored high on it only because his 3rd grade teacher spent a month teaching all the tricks -- like put a quote somewhere in your essay because the graders are looking for a quote, etc. I guess this has to do with teaching quality? But more like he had a good teacher who knew how to teach to the test.

Then that is a big red flag. I would look at other schools.

Our school does not teach to the test at all. Parents get communication that there is going to be testing coming up. School recommends kids get good nights rest and that’s it. Our kids do well.

Teaching to the test only gets you so far. It is not going to get you top scores especially higher up in the grades. This is true in ELA and especially true in math.

I would argue teaching 3rd graders how to Quote evidence from a source in a written essay is not teaching to the test but important writing instruction. My 3rd grader would not naturally know how to do that without instruction. I don’t see anything wrong with a teacher knowing that the 3rd grade writing for Cape expects quoted evidence and teaching kids how to do that.

Agree with this. Some of the test-taking skills my kid was taught are actually writing skills. Yes, they are taught them for CAPE purposes, but I am glad someone taught my 3rd grader how to roughly structure a paragraph and an essay. It's not the only way, but it's a whole lot better than the no structure at all blob of info that she was writing previously.

But the issue is that this is fragmented and your kid should have been taught whatever proficiency that is needed as part of the actual curriculum and progression, not just because there is a test coming up in 2 or 3 weeks.

It’s like trying to explain the definition of a word that has multiple meanings without having the context of the sentence with the word in it.

It is a poor way to learn something and higher likelihood that it won’t stick compared to something that is actually incorporated into the curriculum and used consistently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how Stokes is one of the few schools that has most kids getting 4+ on both tests yet underperforms for 3+ given its at risk percentage. That indicates a significant achievement gap: mostly 4s and 5s but also more 1s and 2s than one might expect. If I were considering the school I would want to know how it works with such a range of students.

Stokes is a small school that can lead to some variation in the data. Not sure if why you would pick out Stokes, but here is some data that shows why Stokes is doing better than other well regarded schools.

- For economically disadvantaged kids scoring 3+ on ELA Stokes Brookland is 14 points higher than Janney and 18 points than Mann.

- For Black students there are a total of 6 ES in all of DC that have higher 3+ scores on the ELA portion. There are too many WOTP schools scoring lower to list, but Janney is 28 points lower.

- For Black students there are only 18 ES that have higher 3+ scores for math. Not as good there, but still 10 points above Janney.

So why would you call out Stokes and not Janney for achievement gaps? If I were a family of a Black child, I would think Stokes is a fine option.

Stokes is an outlier for 3+ given its at-risk percentage. Ross and Janney are 5% at risk and have 3+ math scores of 95%. Shepherd is 7% at-risk and has 85% at 3+. Stokes is 6% at risk and has 69% 3+, which is good but quite different. There are clearly a lot of students scoring 4s and 5s, but also nearly a third of kids scoring 1s and 2s. That is an achievement gap--not necessarily one tied to a specific race or at-risk status, but a gap that teachers have to address. At Janney, a class of 20 would have one kid scoring a 1 or 2 in math and 16 kids scoring a 4 or 5; at Stokes, that same sized class has 6 kids scoring 1s and 2s and 9 kids scoring 4s and 5s. I think it would be harder to teach the Stokes class, especially given the bilingual curriculum. So if I were deciding between the two (realizing most people have very different choices) I would want to know how Stokes is handling that difficulty. It's not a slam on Stokes, which as you say does better with certain populations than many schools.