Georgia's anti-abortion law forcing brain-dead woman to remain on life support

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

The news reports say the grandmother was told by the doctors that the fetus is unhealthy and baby may be blind/unable to walk.

where is the lie?

Copy and paste the quote from the grandmother and the link.

You won’t, because what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Democrats ☕️

You must not have read the original post with the link to the AP article, where the mother of the woman on life support was quoted.

DP. You could settle this easily with the exact quote that confirms what you said. This is what you wrote:

But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

Please give us the exact quote from news media that proves this medical information about both the mother and the baby. You are the one who has stated it as fact, so give us the hard evidence.

Or were you lying when you wrote the above?

Not that PP, but as an RN, this generally does happen to long term vent patients who have no brain function, so medically is quite likely.

But the larger question is not about the specifics of this case, but about legal questions of autonomy over one's body even im death. Your refusal to answer direct questions about your opinion of the larger questions at hand indicates you would, indeed, force a brain dead woman to be kept on a vent for months even if she had an clear advance directive against it l.

If you respond with some BS about "but in this case, xyz," you are a blatant coward or paid troll.

You are responding to me. I’m also the PP who said above that I think she should have been allowed to pass here. You think you are only responding to one person? You think anyone who doesn’t adopt a maximalist approach to abortion rights is MAGA? You think anyone who criticizes the lies and the abhorrent language used by abortion rights people in this case is far right? You are absolutely wrong. And you are why abortion rights is a losing issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

The news reports say the grandmother was told by the doctors that the fetus is unhealthy and baby may be blind/unable to walk.

where is the lie?

Copy and paste the quote from the grandmother and the link.

You won’t, because what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Democrats ☕️

You must not have read the original post with the link to the AP article, where the mother of the woman on life support was quoted.

DP. You could settle this easily with the exact quote that confirms what you said. This is what you wrote:

But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

Please give us the exact quote from news media that proves this medical information about both the mother and the baby. You are the one who has stated it as fact, so give us the hard evidence.

Or were you lying when you wrote the above?

Ffs just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

The news reports say the grandmother was told by the doctors that the fetus is unhealthy and baby may be blind/unable to walk.

where is the lie?

Copy and paste the quote from the grandmother and the link.

You won’t, because what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Democrats ☕️

You must not have read the original post with the link to the AP article, where the mother of the woman on life support was quoted.

DP. You could settle this easily with the exact quote that confirms what you said. This is what you wrote:

But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

Please give us the exact quote from news media that proves this medical information about both the mother and the baby. You are the one who has stated it as fact, so give us the hard evidence.

Or were you lying when you wrote the above?

Not that PP, but as an RN, this generally does happen to long term vent patients who have no brain function, so medically is quite likely.

But the larger question is not about the specifics of this case, but about legal questions of autonomy over one's body even im death. Your refusal to answer direct questions about your opinion of the larger questions at hand indicates you would, indeed, force a brain dead woman to be kept on a vent for months even if she had an clear advance directive against it l.

If you respond with some BS about "but in this case, xyz," you are a blatant coward or paid troll.

You are responding to me. I’m also the PP who said above that I think she should have been allowed to pass here. You think you are only responding to one person? You think anyone who doesn’t adopt a maximalist approach to abortion rights is MAGA? You think anyone who criticizes the lies and the abhorrent language used by abortion rights people in this case is far right? You are absolutely wrong. And you are why abortion rights is a losing issue.

And you think anyone who has serious concerns about keeping a brain dead woman alive to save her baby (a 9 week fetus at the start of this, no?) is a raging leftie who wants to murder babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

The news reports say the grandmother was told by the doctors that the fetus is unhealthy and baby may be blind/unable to walk.

where is the lie?

Copy and paste the quote from the grandmother and the link.

You won’t, because what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Democrats ☕️

You must not have read the original post with the link to the AP article, where the mother of the woman on life support was quoted.

DP. You could settle this easily with the exact quote that confirms what you said. This is what you wrote:

But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

Please give us the exact quote from news media that proves this medical information about both the mother and the baby. You are the one who has stated it as fact, so give us the hard evidence.

Or were you lying when you wrote the above?

Not that PP, but as an RN, this generally does happen to long term vent patients who have no brain function, so medically is quite likely.

But the larger question is not about the specifics of this case, but about legal questions of autonomy over one's body even im death. Your refusal to answer direct questions about your opinion of the larger questions at hand indicates you would, indeed, force a brain dead woman to be kept on a vent for months even if she had an clear advance directive against it l.

If you respond with some BS about "but in this case, xyz," you are a blatant coward or paid troll.

You are responding to me. I’m also the PP who said above that I think she should have been allowed to pass here. You think you are only responding to one person? You think anyone who doesn’t adopt a maximalist approach to abortion rights is MAGA? You think anyone who criticizes the lies and the abhorrent language used by abortion rights people in this case is far right? You are absolutely wrong. And you are why abortion rights is a losing issue.

Abortion rights is not a losing issue when states actually allow their residents to decide via referendum vote.

There is no debate that the health of the fetus is in jeopardy, I am speaking as a healthcare worker. Earlier this thread, someone said the fetus is stated to be blind which is inaccurate. However, it is not inaccurate to say that the family indicated the fetus has fluid on the brain and that there is concern for its health. Are you debating that?

It is also not inaccurate to say that sustaining a brain dead person on a ventilator increases odds of serious medical outcomes for the fetus and also that the body of the mother will develop complications and also have difficulty sustaining the pregnancy adequately. I have provided care for many long term ventilator patients with serious brain damage (and in a few cases, essentially brain dead where the family refused withdrawal of care). Pressure wounds and contractures are quite typical, as well as occasional ventilator acquired pneumonia and other infections.

Whatever language you debate - "incubator" - is that it? It is actually accurate. It is calling it as it is. As a woman, mother, and healthcare worker, someone who lost a sister who was sustained on a vent while she unsuccessfully lost a battle for an organ transplant, I am loathe to think the state would override my desires for withdrawal of care and use my remaining living biological tissue, while I am dead (!!), to sustain my fetus. I do view that as using me as an incubator and horribly disrespectful towards human beings, ethically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

The news reports say the grandmother was told by the doctors that the fetus is unhealthy and baby may be blind/unable to walk.

where is the lie?

Copy and paste the quote from the grandmother and the link.

You won’t, because what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Democrats ☕️

Coward troll who keeps avoiding stating her opinion on the larger, direct, questions asked of her repeatedly.

Coward

Coward

Coward

Cowards lie about babies so they can kill them. Neither your opinion nor mine means shit because GA law isn’t based on our opinions.

Reddit types get all het up arguing about their fabulous opinions and ignoring reality. Dcum types, too.

So GA should put their abortion law to a referendum vote and allow their folks to decide specific to this issue. What are their leaders so afraid of?

[Anonymous]

I am an organ donor. You can call me an incubator for organ harvesting if I die and the medical team sustains me for a couple of days to collect my organs. Not offended.

Should the state also start forcing people who are not organ donors to become organ donors when brain dead? It would save lives!! This should be ok, right?

[Anonymous]

FWIW, the ethical and legal questions of this case have been previously debated prior to overturning R v W.

Here is the case of Marlise Munoz, a TX woman who suffered a catastrophic event while pregnant and the state did force her to be sustained against very clearly expressed wishes from the family. Per the PP, apparently the woman's father who called his daughter "a host for a fetus" is left wing nut job for using this language about his own daughter??

"Mrs. Munoz’s father, Ernest Machado, 60, a former police officer and an Air Force veteran, put it even more bluntly. “All she is is a host for a fetus,” he said on Tuesday. “I get angry with the state. What business did they have delving into these areas? Why are they practicing medicine up in Austin?”

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/us/pregnant-and-forced-to-stay-on-life-support.html

In that case, the family was able to take the hospital to court and the court ruled that the hospital was misapplying TX law (this was back in 2014).

However, as GA has a fetus = person law, not sure how the court would rule in this case in GA if the family should go to court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

Ooh maybe someone will double dog them. You people are fools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

The news reports say the grandmother was told by the doctors that the fetus is unhealthy and baby may be blind/unable to walk.

where is the lie?

Copy and paste the quote from the grandmother and the link.

You won’t, because what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Democrats ☕️

Coward troll who keeps avoiding stating her opinion on the larger, direct, questions asked of her repeatedly.

Coward

Coward

Coward

Cowards lie about babies so they can kill them. Neither your opinion nor mine means shit because GA law isn’t based on our opinions.

Reddit types get all het up arguing about their fabulous opinions and ignoring reality. Dcum types, too.

So GA should put their abortion law to a referendum vote and allow their folks to decide specific to this issue. What are their leaders so afraid of?

Also GA should pay for all medical bills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the ethical and legal questions of this case have been previously debated prior to overturning R v W.

Here is the case of Marlise Munoz, a TX woman who suffered a catastrophic event while pregnant and the state did force her to be sustained against very clearly expressed wishes from the family. Per the PP, apparently the woman's father who called his daughter "a host for a fetus" is left wing nut job for using this language about his own daughter??

"Mrs. Munoz’s father, Ernest Machado, 60, a former police officer and an Air Force veteran, put it even more bluntly. “All she is is a host for a fetus,” he said on Tuesday. “I get angry with the state. What business did they have delving into these areas? Why are they practicing medicine up in Austin?”

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/us/pregnant-and-forced-to-stay-on-life-support.html

In that case, the family was able to take the hospital to court and the court ruled that the hospital was misapplying TX law (this was back in 2014).

However, as GA has a fetus = person law, not sure how the court would rule in this case in GA if the family should go to court.

I want to clarify my prior post - the hospital forced her to be sustained based on their legal interpretation of TX law. However because the family won the case in court, TX law at that time (again, 2014) eventually allowed for her to have care withdrawn.

Obviously laws are different here so legally, if challenged in court, the outcome in GA may not be the same given the "fetus = person" text. Meanwhile, GA politicians, attorney general, etc are free to speak out on this case, propose clarifying the legal text, but have they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posters are the (fortunately rare) “celebrate your abortion!” crowd. They are not representative of nearly all of the US.

Not a single person said that.

If you don’t get why it is ghoulish to keep a woman’s dead body alive to gestate a likely severely disabled child (who will not be supported by the lawmakers who forced this) … don’t know what to say.

Most Americans who hear this story, aside from abortion fanatics, will believe that the mother would have done anything she could to keep her baby alive. They just are not going to see this as something the mother would not have wanted, because most mothers would do anything to protect their babies.

DCUM is an extreme outlier on abortion sentiment and has historically been unable to self-comprehend that fact.

From 9 weeks???? No way. That is your warped assumption. Also she was an RN so even less likely she would choose this, medical professionals are leas likely to choose extreme long term interventions, especially when those interventions harm the developing fetus.

-RN

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. You are just wrong and out of touch.

Ah well that settles it.

Are you taking the position that DCUM has been consistently in line with the position of most American voters when it comes to abortion? The shock and gnashing of teeth after the last election—which was entirely predictable outside the DCUM bubble—shows how wrong you are.

Most voters don’t view abortion and abortion rights the same way DCUM does. They are uncomfortable with it at best. I am deeply skeptical that DCUMs general posture on this case is anything other than a far extreme.

you are so out of touch with current national polling on abortion opinion, it is laughable. JFC, google is your friend.

Odd. We were confidently told repeatedly here, in the weeks leading up to the election, that DCUM’s position on abortion was correct, reflected by the voters, and would easily decide the election for Harris.

You think everyone who voted for Trump is also anti abortion for major medical events? Ok.

But sure ignore polling.

Can you show me the polling that shows that most Americans disagree with what has happened here, and would want her to be allowed to die?

Look, I am not actually in support of this. I think, in this case, her family has expressed her wishes, and she should be allowed to pass, given the age of the fetus in particular. But I recognize that it’s not at all clear that most Americans feel the same way, and in fact many of them would take the position that the brain dead mother would in fact want whatever chance at life her baby could get. This is what I’m frustrated about, because DCUM is so far off the mainstream and is continually surprised by that where it matters (elections). I am not at all clear that most Americans think anything wrong has happened here at all, and certainly do not view this in the apocalyptic language of DCUM (“biological material,” “incubator,” etc.).

I would like the US to return to “safe, legal, and rare,” but I don’t think we will ever get there at this rate, because the opposition sounds so outright crazy.

the fact is, this is such a ghoulish and unusual circumstance that most Americans have no correct frame of reference. If you envision it as the mom peacefully on a respirator for two weeks until the viable baby reaches 33 weeks, then sure. But this case is keeping the mother’s body alive through repeated infections, limbs seizing up, pressure sores, to gestate a severely disabled fetus.

How do you know this as fact? Has it been verified?

The relatives have been quoted as saying that the fetus is not doing well.

The only other cases where this has gone on so long involved constant infections for the mother and one high profile one, a severely deformed fetus.

To believe you can easily keep a brain dead body alive for months doing some thing as physiologically complex as gestation is a fantasy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marlise_Mu%C3%B1oz

Provide a link to the relatives saying the baby “isn’t doing well.”

You can’t, because you are a liar.

This has been cited extensively in the press. You’re not a liar but you are an evil ghoul who hates actual babies but loves doomed fetuses gestating in corpses against the wishes of their relatives.

So post the extensive evidence that the press has published regarding the baby’s health, with links. I dare you.

It has been posted and quoted here multiple times.

You do not understand the basic meaning of the word “evidence.” Or you are a liar. There are only two options.

So basically you refuse to believe the news reports and anyone who cites them is a liar? meanwhile we are supposed to believe that this is a perfectly healthy way to gestate a fetus?

You are flatly lying about what news reports say.

so prove us wrong.....

[Anonymous]

For PP who is unable to find news reports with the woman's family indicating the fetus has issues, here you go:

https://apnews.com/article/pregnant-woman-brain-dead-abortion-ban-georgia-a85a5906e5b2c4889525f2300c441745

Though I suspect now you will indicate that the Associated Press is fake news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For PP who is unable to find news reports with the woman's family indicating the fetus has issues, here you go:

https://apnews.com/article/pregnant-woman-brain-dead-abortion-ban-georgia-a85a5906e5b2c4889525f2300c441745

Though I suspect now you will indicate that the Associated Press is fake news.

These people will continue to contort themselves into believing that keeping a corpse artificially alive to sustain a fetus that is doomed to die is somehow God’s will. If it was God’s will that this fetus live, God wouldn’t have killed its mother FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an organ donor. You can call me an incubator for organ harvesting if I die and the medical team sustains me for a couple of days to collect my organs. Not offended.

Should the state also start forcing people who are not organ donors to become organ donors when brain dead? It would save lives!! This should be ok, right?

MAGA are already brain dead. I have no problem harvesting their organs to save lives. Livers regrow, and you only need 1 kidney or 1 lung. Maybe we can make something useful of their waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the fact that the they are trying to hold the family responsible for the medical expenses. If the government is forcing her body to be used as an incubator, why should her family have to pay f or it?

Excellent point.