Overcrowding/Overenrollment Issues at top tier schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

I've attended very large schools (including UCLA) and TAs don't teach classes. TAs only lead recitations and lab sections, as well as help with grading.

Many schools do use lecturers or adjuncts to teach classes. These folks generally have lower credentials than tenure track professors, though they are often better teachers with more interest in undergrad education. For example, my PhD advisor was a Nobel Laureate and god help any undergrads who had to take his course. He was both uninterested in teaching and incapable of explaining things to non-experts in the field. He's a fabulous scientist, but you'd be much better off with anyone else. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Johns Hopkins is not a large school nor does it have lectures with 400 students. That would literally be close to 10 percent of the entire undergrad population at the school.

— Hopkins alum

https://courses.jhu.edu/?terms=Fall+2024&departments=AS+Psychological+%26+Brain+Sciences

Drill into "Introduction to Psychology AS.200.101 (01)"

Enrollment limit -- 460 students.

[Anonymous]

You have to understand how the sausage gets made at research universities. Most external research grants do not cover all costs. The institution has to come up with about 30% of the total cost from institutional funds. Some of that may come from gifts and endowments, but in practice that source doesn't even come close and much the institutional funds to support research must come from undergraduate tuition. This can be many, many millions of dollars at large research universities that have essentially been directed to research rather than teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Load of crap. Regardless of one's personal learning preferences, the entire universe of professors, instructors, and teachers would agree that in-person is the Optimal Instructional Method. But go get your degree online at the University of Phoenix. IDRC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

If you Google, you'll see that USC indeed has lecturers and adjuncts who teach classes. They're not all taught by professors. USC also has teaching assistants, just like every other university. Google is your friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

If you Google, you'll see that USC indeed has lecturers and adjuncts who teach classes. They're not all taught by professors. USC also has teaching assistants, just like every other university. Google is your friend.

An adjunct is not a 24 year old TA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

If you Google, you'll see that USC indeed has lecturers and adjuncts who teach classes. They're not all taught by professors. USC also has teaching assistants, just like every other university. Google is your friend.

Northwestern’s entire Business Institutions minor is taught by adjuncts….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

If you Google, you'll see that USC indeed has lecturers and adjuncts who teach classes. They're not all taught by professors. USC also has teaching assistants, just like every other university. Google is your friend.

An adjunct is not a 24 year old TA.

No major university has TAs teaching classes. They all have them supervising lab sections and running recitations, including both USC and UCLA.

Students will sometimes state that a TA is teaching the class when the supervising professor appears to be MIA. This often happens in lab classes where the supervising prof may never make an appearance, despite having set the curriculum and being in charge. I'm sure that happens at USC too, just like everywhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

If you Google, you'll see that USC indeed has lecturers and adjuncts who teach classes. They're not all taught by professors. USC also has teaching assistants, just like every other university. Google is your friend.

Northwestern’s entire Business Institutions minor is taught by adjuncts….

Makes sense. They probably have MBAs and a dozens+ years of industry experience.
How is this related to the overcrowding and over-enrollment topic though?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Have they ever been top tier? Large public schools have always seemed like glorified community colleges to me. The reports in this thread solidify doubts I’ve had for a long time. Would never allow my children to consider those schools.

Pure snobbery. You are passing judgment based on triple rooms and large lecture halls. As though that says anything about the people inside them.

Some of the major criteria for success include hustle, standing out in a crowd, relationship building, knowing how to find opportunities everywhere.

The truly rich don't have to go to any colleges for this to happen. Everyone else has to learn how.

Comments like yours are why people are so savage about elite schools. They know you consider them peasants.

By the way, community colleges have an appropriate role in society and shouldn't be dissed either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

If you Google, you'll see that USC indeed has lecturers and adjuncts who teach classes. They're not all taught by professors. USC also has teaching assistants, just like every other university. Google is your friend.

Northwestern’s entire Business Institutions minor is taught by adjuncts….

Makes sense. They probably have MBAs and a dozens+ years of industry experience.
How is this related to the overcrowding and over-enrollment topic though?

The biggest issue with adjuncts that there is zero incentive for the university to police quality of instruction. Many adjuncts will teach for $500 for a whole semester long course. When I was in law school, many of those adjuncts would even wave the payment to avoid creating conflicts for their firm. This create a system where there is zero incentive for a university to fire an adjunct who isn't doing a good job because it's free or almost fee labor for the university. I had courses where the adjunct didn't show up more than 2x in a whole semester--they just wanted to be an adjunct for the resume line. (Of course I also had absolutely fabulous courses taught by adjuncts, so it goes both ways.)

It's worth asking about adjuncts and finding out how they're used at a particular university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

This thread with examples from Cornell and Johns Hopkins prove the issues you are highlighting are not confined to large public universities. They are issues at all universities and you need to do your research when selecting a university. That said, your theory is flawed about this being a large public university issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

This thread with examples from Cornell and Johns Hopkins prove the issues you are highlighting are not confined to large public universities. They are issues at all universities and you need to do your research when selecting a university. That said, your theory is flawed about this being a large public university issue.

But it seems like it’s just the psychology classes at those 2 schools? Is it more?
I haven’t read that online for Cornell (kid going there). But who knows.

Ps. Why are the intro to psych classs so large everywhere?!?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

This thread with examples from Cornell and Johns Hopkins prove the issues you are highlighting are not confined to large public universities. They are issues at all universities and you need to do your research when selecting a university. That said, your theory is flawed about this being a large public university issue.

But it seems like it’s just the psychology classes at those 2 schools? Is it more?
I haven’t read that online for Cornell (kid going there). But who knows.

Ps. Why are the intro to psych classs so large everywhere?!?

The Cornell example seems to be entirely driven by a superstar, famous professor. Seems like the minute that one professor retires, the enrollment will drop by like 80%.

Hard to use that as an example.