Overcrowding/Overenrollment Issues at top tier schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Guess you know more than the UK Govt
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list-2023

UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley and Michigan are all considered top tier worldwide. The list is compiled from Top 50 rankings which appeared on 2 or mores lists.

Where is Brown? USC? Georgetown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Have they ever been top tier? Large public schools have always seemed like glorified community colleges to me. The reports in this thread solidify doubts I’ve had for a long time. Would never allow my children to consider those schools.

Once again lumping Michigan in with UC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, I don’t see anyone denying that impacted majors exist, that housing is a big issue at nearly all of the UC’s (apart from UCLA’s triples), that there are in fact some classes with more than 1000 kids enrolled, etc. . . We are just being told it doesn’t matter, which of course is personal opinion. To me, it matters.

DP. I have no connection with UCLA or any school in CA. However, I find it laughable that you keep insisting there are some classes with "more than 1000 kids enrolled." Please provide a citation. And virtual classes do not count. Show us one school that has a lecture hall of 1000 or more students.

University of Washington does. My friend’s daughter who attends showed us when we visited. But her discussion and lab sections are small and she loves it there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Have they ever been top tier? Large public schools have always seemed like glorified community colleges to me. The reports in this thread solidify doubts I’ve had for a long time. Would never allow my children to consider those schools.

Awesome. You do you and what’s best for your family.

My kids will have more of a shot at the glorified community colleges since your kid won’t be applying. Have fun paying $400K! Meanwhile I’m paying about $154K for a top 10 program at large OOS public university. And I may pay less than $121K if DC graduates in 3 years due to Dual Enrollment and AP classes. (DC is considering a second major).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, I don’t see anyone denying that impacted majors exist, that housing is a big issue at nearly all of the UC’s (apart from UCLA’s triples), that there are in fact some classes with more than 1000 kids enrolled, etc. . . We are just being told it doesn’t matter, which of course is personal opinion. To me, it matters.

DP. I have no connection with UCLA or any school in CA. However, I find it laughable that you keep insisting there are some classes with "more than 1000 kids enrolled." Please provide a citation. And virtual classes do not count. Show us one school that has a lecture hall of 1000 or more students.

University of Washington does. My friend’s daughter who attends showed us when we visited. But her discussion and lab sections are small and she loves it there.

And yet Ivies have large classes too. Citations provided.

Cornell- NYT references a class with 1600 students.
Source:
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/17/nyregion/lining-up-to-get-a-lecture-a-class-with-1600-students-and-one-popular-teacher.html


Cornell's largest course for years, Intro to Psych draws more than 800 students to the only classroom that will accommodate them – Bailey Hall.
Bailey Hall hold ls 1300 students. https://ezramagazine.cornell.edu/winter15/CoverStorySidebar5.html#:~:text=Cornell's%20largest%20course%20for%20years,as%20laughter%2C%20memory%20and%20sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, I don’t see anyone denying that impacted majors exist, that housing is a big issue at nearly all of the UC’s (apart from UCLA’s triples), that there are in fact some classes with more than 1000 kids enrolled, etc. . . We are just being told it doesn’t matter, which of course is personal opinion. To me, it matters.

DP. I have no connection with UCLA or any school in CA. However, I find it laughable that you keep insisting there are some classes with "more than 1000 kids enrolled." Please provide a citation. And virtual classes do not count. Show us one school that has a lecture hall of 1000 or more students.

University of Washington does. My friend’s daughter who attends showed us when we visited. But her discussion and lab sections are small and she loves it there.

And yet Ivies have large classes too. Citations provided.

Cornell- NYT references a class with 1600 students.
Source:
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/17/nyregion/lining-up-to-get-a-lecture-a-class-with-1600-students-and-one-popular-teacher.html


Cornell's largest course for years, Intro to Psych draws more than 800 students to the only classroom that will accommodate them – Bailey Hall.
Bailey Hall hold ls 1300 students. https://ezramagazine.cornell.edu/winter15/CoverStorySidebar5.html#:~:text=Cornell's%20largest%20course%20for%20years,as%20laughter%2C%20memory%20and%20sex.

Cornell is also the only Ivy that is a partially a public school.

[Anonymous]

The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Guess you know more than the UK Govt
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list-2023

UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley and Michigan are all considered top tier worldwide. The list is compiled from Top 50 rankings which appeared on 2 or mores lists.

Where is Brown? USC? Georgetown?

I don’t think anyone is questioning that the UC’s are R1 universities that conduct a lot of important research that is what this global rankings tend to mention. That is largely divorced from the business of educating undergraduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

This has long occurred at universities out West. I grew up out West and this happened every couple of years at the various schools. Which schools? All. One year one major state school had freshmen sleeping in the gym until housing was procured a few weeks later. They rented a couple of floors of a major nearby hotel. Schools try their best to not have this happen but it does from time to time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

CU Boulder has these issues - very difficult to get classes, students taking 5-6 years to graduate because its difficult to get the classes needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Guess you know more than the UK Govt
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list-2023

UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley and Michigan are all considered top tier worldwide. The list is compiled from Top 50 rankings which appeared on 2 or mores lists.

Where is Brown? USC? Georgetown?

I don’t think anyone is questioning that the UC’s are R1 universities that conduct a lot of important research that is what this global rankings tend to mention. That is largely divorced from the business of educating undergraduates.

Someone upthread questioned the UCs as a being top tier and called them “gloried community colleges”. That is where the response was aimed at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hearing disturbing things about overcrowding in dorms/not enough housing at UCLA (3 freshman in a double etc)

Hearing about scheduling/class issues at Michigan, with kids not getting into required 1st year classes for majors etc.

What other schools have these types of issues? What’s the best way to find out?

Not sure UCLA and Michigan are truly top tier...

True. Very true.

Guess you know more than the UK Govt
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list-2023

UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley and Michigan are all considered top tier worldwide. The list is compiled from Top 50 rankings which appeared on 2 or mores lists.

Where is Brown? USC? Georgetown?

Reflects the research quality of these institutions. No one is disputing that.
But the overcrowding and over-enrollment issues reflect the undergrad student experience, that's what we're talking about here, another thing altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Johns Hopkins is not a large school nor does it have lectures with 400 students. That would literally be close to 10 percent of the entire undergrad population at the school.

— Hopkins alum