Dartmouth Announces Test Scores Required Starting Next Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to take it further. I think they should rank SAT like they do class rank. Shoud show top % in 3% increments. That way colleges can very much see context and would be a huge boost for kids who are able to overcome in horrible school districts.

A kid who scores 1200 in a Baltimore school where the average is 892 has "overcome disadvantage" but is still not qualified for Ivy League work.

we don’t know that, that would
be up to the schools to decide. I highly doubt any of us posting here are data analysts for any of these schools. Just a bunch of over bearing helicopter parents going at it.

Yeah, we do know that, but what the schools will do is admit the kid so the school looks good and then sweep it under the rug when the kid drops out / flunks out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really sucks for us if they go back to test required.

DC SAT score 1580, applied to college last year. So many colleges were TO. DC got rejected to T15. I do wonder if TO hurt DC.

DC#2 is a sophomore, not as high achieving and will probably have an SAT score around 1300 mark. TO would be great for this DC.

I know life is unfair, but this really stinks for my kids.

Don't worry, all the people who are smugly convinced the new policy will benefit "my high stats kid" will be in a rage next year or the year after when the kid is rejected anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fantastic!
Goodbye to the "bad at test taking" dopes with their grade inflated 4.0s.

What Dartmouth is saying is that it will now be able to accept more kids who are bad at test taking. Oops.

That is not at all what Dartmouth said.

Compression is an important skill.

Compression?

Writing is an important skill too.

[Anonymous]

In so many high schools these days you can get an A simply by doing all the work and maybe a little extra credit. Tests can be retaken, problem sets redone until you get the grade you want. This is not necessarily a bad thing in terms of learning, but it does not give colleges much to work with in figuring out which kids would thrive in a more rigorous academic environment. There has to be some testing component.

[Anonymous]

The NYT article was reported by David Leonhardt, who wrote about this issue a few months ago, The earlier article suggested that more schools would reverse their policies.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP who cautioned about assuming that a return to testing will automatically benefit high stats kids. I am a grad of YHP, and a few years ago, before TO, I attended an admissions panel discussing what the school looks for. They could FILL THER CLASS with high stats kids over and over again. They said don't chase the perfect stats. It is all about what else your kid has to offer. So many people on this thread are delusional about why their kid was rejected/now has a better chance of getting in to these elite schools if TO goes away. And, as I said before, calling kids "dumb" is appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fantastic!
Goodbye to the "bad at test taking" dopes with their grade inflated 4.0s.

Only bad at taking tests on Saturday mornings, apparently. 🤣😂😭

In a controlled setting with no cell phones :lol:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This allows Dartmouth to better differentiate among students from low-performing, under-resourced high schools. But they're not going to admit white/asian strivers instead of those students. No way. So it's not what the standardized test absolutists were hoping for. In fact, it's worse for them than test optional.

No, it is much better that test optional or race based weighting, because it puts kids from a similar school/socioeconomic background on a level footing.

The race system hypothetically creates a system where an obama girl, with all her wealth, resources, privileges and oppotunities from the top private school in the country, to get admitted into an elote college with a far lower SAT than her asian classmate, or even an asian male immigrant from a failing urban public school with an SAT hundreds of points above her SAT, but 50 points below the expected score for asian males.

The test optional system allows an affluent classmate who cheated through high school to get high grades or paid someone to write their application, who scored a 1200 or 1000 SAT to get accepted over a classmate with similar grades, stats, activities and a 1530 SAT, and with the supreme court decision and no race consideration, even more smart minorities are losing out over mediocre rich kids.

Returning to tests required after the supreme court decision means that all those affluent and middle class students are going to be on a more equal playing field as all their affluent or middle class peers, regardless of race. The African-American math geek with the 1570 SAT is not going to get shut out by the white leadership girl with inflated grades and an 1100 SAT who submitted test optional with great extracurriculars. They will no longer be targeting the same schools. It also means that those brilliant kids from failing schools (disproportionately minority) will now get caught up and noticed since they will submit their scores once again.

This is moving back towards merit and opportunity.

To the PP with whom I have been going back-and-forth...this proves my point. I assume whoever wrote this post is not native-born. Notice how in their scenario, their kid is losing out to the AA with a 1570. Notice how the AA to whom they are losing out did not score a 1300 from Baltimore public schools.

Wtf?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP who cautioned about assuming that a return to testing will automatically benefit high stats kids. I am a grad of YHP, and a few years ago, before TO, I attended an admissions panel discussing what the school looks for. They could FILL THER CLASS with high stats kids over and over again. They said don't chase the perfect stats. It is all about what else your kid has to offer. So many people on this thread are delusional about why their kid was rejected/now has a better chance of getting in to these elite schools if TO goes away. And, as I said before, calling kids "dumb" is appalling.

💯
That’s why those teacher recommendations are always so important - and why some private schools are always “feeders schools” to highly selective universities. It’s a known commodity. Schools want x and they know they can get x from certain high schools.

Hopefully this means return back to more predictable admission seasons like 2019.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This allows Dartmouth to better differentiate among students from low-performing, under-resourced high schools. But they're not going to admit white/asian strivers instead of those students. No way. So it's not what the standardized test absolutists were hoping for. In fact, it's worse for them than test optional.

No, it is much better that test optional or race based weighting, because it puts kids from a similar school/socioeconomic background on a level footing.

The race system hypothetically creates a system where an obama girl, with all her wealth, resources, privileges and oppotunities from the top private school in the country, to get admitted into an elote college with a far lower SAT than her asian classmate, or even an asian male immigrant from a failing urban public school with an SAT hundreds of points above her SAT, but 50 points below the expected score for asian males.

The test optional system allows an affluent classmate who cheated through high school to get high grades or paid someone to write their application, who scored a 1200 or 1000 SAT to get accepted over a classmate with similar grades, stats, activities and a 1530 SAT, and with the supreme court decision and no race consideration, even more smart minorities are losing out over mediocre rich kids.

Returning to tests required after the supreme court decision means that all those affluent and middle class students are going to be on a more equal playing field as all their affluent or middle class peers, regardless of race. The African-American math geek with the 1570 SAT is not going to get shut out by the white leadership girl with inflated grades and an 1100 SAT who submitted test optional with great extracurriculars. They will no longer be targeting the same schools. It also means that those brilliant kids from failing schools (disproportionately minority) will now get caught up and noticed since they will submit their scores once again.

This is moving back towards merit and opportunity.

To the PP with whom I have been going back-and-forth...this proves my point. I assume whoever wrote this post is not native-born. Notice how in their scenario, their kid is losing out to the AA with a 1570. Notice how the AA to whom they are losing out did not score a 1300 from Baltimore public schools.

You misread. (Again??)

The AA kid with the high SAT could easily get rejected from a top school, while his test optional white classmate with all the right leadership activities and a very low SAT gets into the exact same school without submitting scores, due to the combination of test optional and the supreme court decision.

You must have a lot of biases against minorities to read that example in that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP who cautioned about assuming that a return to testing will automatically benefit high stats kids. I am a grad of YHP, and a few years ago, before TO, I attended an admissions panel discussing what the school looks for. They could FILL THER CLASS with high stats kids over and over again. They said don't chase the perfect stats. It is all about what else your kid has to offer. So many people on this thread are delusional about why their kid was rejected/now has a better chance of getting in to these elite schools if TO goes away. And, as I said before, calling kids "dumb" is appalling.

But it’s not fake “passion projects” either….
When you see it, you know it. There is a type of authenticity thats hard to fake. And certain highly selective schools actually seek this out. Dartmouth is one of those schools.

[Anonymous]

I agree that truly authentic kids are rare and sought after. An essay that shows an applicant's true self goes a long way.

[Anonymous]

Stanford announced they will extend TO policy for the 2024-2025 admissions cycle (current HS juniors)

[Anonymous]

I don't care if it benefits my kids or not.

It is just far more fair and that feels good. No more DMV kids with their grossly inflated GPAs and crappy SAT scores sneaking in. The SAT is not rocket science. If you were able to get a 4.0, you should be able to do well on that test. It tests basic high school math and the ability to read and comprehend.

I don't care if every single spot vacated Dartmouth spot goes to an inner city or rural kid with a 1300. Just not the 4.0 grade inflated dopes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP who cautioned about assuming that a return to testing will automatically benefit high stats kids. I am a grad of YHP, and a few years ago, before TO, I attended an admissions panel discussing what the school looks for. They could FILL THER CLASS with high stats kids over and over again. They said don't chase the perfect stats. It is all about what else your kid has to offer. So many people on this thread are delusional about why their kid was rejected/now has a better chance of getting in to these elite schools if TO goes away. And, as I said before, calling kids "dumb" is appalling.

They are not saying their kids are now golden.

They are saying these high stats kids are not going to watch the kid with the 1100 SAT get accepted due to test optional, while they are rejected.

Apples and oranges.