UPS TO pay drivers $170,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

That’s the GOP way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You can't compare flexible gig work to a full-time job! That's like saying that because some people take tutoring gigs, no one should be a teacher, or teachers should be paid the same hourly rate. Or no one should drive municipal busses, we should all just rely on Uber and Lyft as our sole means of transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You can't compare flexible gig work to a full-time job! That's like saying that because some people take tutoring gigs, no one should be a teacher, or teachers should be paid the same hourly rate. Or no one should drive municipal busses, we should all just rely on Uber and Lyft as our sole means of transportation.

You can piss and moan all you want. If Amazon's gig job compensation was so awful, then no one would do it. Yet people do it. Facts are facts. Amazon shows how much uneducated, unskilled labor used for driving trucks and delivering packages is truly worth. It's worth about $20-25/hr, not $50/hr or $80+/hr (if you count benefits) like UPS is paying. UPS is massively overpaying for the same labor that Amazon, DHL, regional parcel carriers, and FedEx all pay about $20-30/hr for. It's that simple. Again, people drive for Amazon, so clearly the pay is enough. We have an at will employment economy. People are free not to drive trucks for Amazon if the pay is too low, which will force Amazon to raise compensation. But they do drive trucks for Amazon. UPS is going to be hamstrung for years with massive labor costs they are going to make them uncompetitive. They'll be forced to raise prices or investment in the company will flee, which will limit their long term growth. Or they'll have to slash jobs. They will lose market share as they become less and less competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You're an awful person. There are many reasons people stay in or take on jobs with terrible benefits. Not because they think it's just fine. People deserve a living wage and to have health care and to be able to retire before they're 80.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You're an awful person. There are many reasons people stay in or take on jobs with terrible benefits. Not because they think it's just fine. People deserve a living wage and to have health care and to be able to retire before they're 80.

Where in the constitution does it say you deserve these things?

[Anonymous]

They have a great pension and post-retirement healthcare.

Here's the thing though--they actually fail out/cut a lot of people during the driving training.

[Anonymous]

I thought 170k was pennies to the people on this forum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

I don’t believe this. Do you have sources? My amazon driver is the same guy every day in the gray amazon sprinter van. I have no idea how that guy is coming to my house (sometimes 2x a day since my dd just had a birthday) daily and isn’t full time. I’ve seen him for over a year too.

My UPS guy has been the same for at least 5 years. They work hard for their money. I say that the private sector should pay what they want to pay. Capitalism. What is wrong is when CEOs are making 40x what the average person makes. That’s the rot in the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You're an awful person. There are many reasons people stay in or take on jobs with terrible benefits. Not because they think it's just fine. People deserve a living wage and to have health care and to be able to retire before they're 80.

Do all jobs need to pay a living wage? I worked plenty of jobs between ages 16 and 24 when I started my career and graduated. I didn’t expect any of them to pay enough for me to live on. They were jobs to supplement and help me pay my tuition. Some jobs aren’t meant to be careers.

And what is a livable wage anyways? I think the expectation should be that you have a spouse, partner or roommate to split living costs with. Working retail isn’t going to pay enough for you to afford a 3 bedroom apartment and be able to have kids on your own. 2 retail salaries might.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

I don’t believe this. Do you have sources? My amazon driver is the same guy every day in the gray amazon sprinter van. I have no idea how that guy is coming to my house (sometimes 2x a day since my dd just had a birthday) daily and isn’t full time. I’ve seen him for over a year too.

My UPS guy has been the same for at least 5 years. They work hard for their money. I say that the private sector should pay what they want to pay. Capitalism. What is wrong is when CEOs are making 40x what the average person makes. That’s the rot in the system.

NP and that is my understanding of how amazon works too. Some of it is gig work, some of it is Amazon subcontracting out with a license to use its brand on the vans. At one point Amazon was heavily subsidizing the van costs to build out its delivery network, not sure if that is still the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This should be exhibit A whenever people try to tell you that unions are a bad thing.

Come back when ups raises its delivery costs to reflect this generous compensation package. I doubt you’ll be touting how great this is when the t shirt gift to Timmy costs you 35.00 to ship.

Yup. People are cheering it.

Wait until all of this gross wage inflation gets passed to consumers. It will be runaway wage driven inflation.

It took you 35 working years for you to save and your 401k to become worth $2M? Ooopps too bad, that $2M now worthless because wage inflation has ruined your entire life's savings.

I dunno, my life feels very similar to how it did the last time UPS workers negotiated a bigger salary for full-time employees. The Chicago school has done an impressive job making labor movements the cause for any and all ills in our society.

+1 it is so stupid to say suggest that the entire cost of this will be passed on to consumers and cause a wage-price spiral which hurts workers, especially when a) UPS says it is cutting its revenue forecasts sharply in the article and b) there is ample evidence from the last couple of years that inflation has been caused by firms sticking with high prices they pushed on us from supply chain problems even after those problems are gone.

Basically it’s Panglossian view that says workers should be glad with whatever crumbs management is willing to give them.

Labor costs always get passed on to consumers. You're just an idiot to think otherwise.

Wait until there's a recession or economic slowdown. They will be forced to increase prices are margins become compressed due to rising labor costs. Labor is always the most expensive cost. Price increase will come.

So who should get a good wage then? No one?

Skilled workers, workers with education, entrepreneurs, business owners. Just being a slab of meat to do hardwork shouldn't mean a high salary. Picking up trash is hard work. Roofing is hard work. Junk hauling is hard work. Landscaping is hard work.

You gonna pay them $170k too? Hard work does not automatically mean valuable work.

We are a capitalist society. Wages are set by what the market will bear and by what the industry needs to pay in order to attract sufficient work force to handle the work load. Basically a derivative of supply and demand.

Due to the pandemic and the explosion of on-line purchases and delivery, the need for package delivery staff has gone up. Right now, companies like UPS do not have enough drivers to handle the volume and ensure that delivery quotas and deadlines are met. So, they have to attract more staff and the only way to do that is to increase the salary and compensation offered.

Useless educations do not need to be paid extra. Just because someone has some random useless LA degree, does not mean they deserve to be paid higher. Their degrees add nothing to their market value and employers are not required to pay people back for spending money on an education. I've seen people hired for essentially non-skilled or low-skilled positions and had two employees hired for the same position, but one with a college degree got a significant increase in offer over the one without a degree. Same job, same required skills. The degreed person does not deserve more, but got more because of stupid corporate policies that give bonus incentives to those with a degree.

I think people who take difficult to fill positions for companies making a decent profit are worth more than people who happened to blow four years partying and taking courses in subjects that they'll never use and sit at a desk doing a job that makes no money, and just wastes time. There are thousands of random office workers who are completely replaceable and offer no additional skills or worth for their four years of Spanish and random liberal arts subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The median salary for a pediatrician is $190k:

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291221.htm


So you’re telling me there’s only a $20k delta between a UPS truck driver that has obtained no skills and no education vs a children’s doctor that has a bachelor’s degree, a medical school degree, and post-MD training on top of needing to be board certified? Ridiculous. Oh and with the $300k in med school debt.

They’re overpaying the drivers by a lot. FedEx pays way less. It’s going to crush UPS once this is reflected in the prices.

This is completely disingenuous.

The physician is making a median salary for a pediatrician. That is the amount of salary they are paid and does not include benefits. That does not include health and dental benefits, long term care, paid time off, retirement benefits, and many more benefits.

The UPS drivers are being paid $170K total compensation. They are paid $90K-102K in salary plus an additional $68-80K in benefits.

The pediatrician is still being paid almost double what the driver is being paid. Plus, the drivers are getting extra as a hiring incentive. UPS does not have enough drivers and they have to offer more as an incentive to get more people to apply. This is no different than companies offering hiring bonuses for hard-to-fill positions. Frankly, there is not a huge shortage of pediatricians to fill open positions. While we could use more pediatricians, there aren't enough hospitals, clinics and practices that are hiring pediatricians relative to the number that are applying. There are more applicants than available positions right now. That is not true for drivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This should be exhibit A whenever people try to tell you that unions are a bad thing.

Come back when ups raises its delivery costs to reflect this generous compensation package. I doubt you’ll be touting how great this is when the t shirt gift to Timmy costs you 35.00 to ship.

Yup. People are cheering it.

Wait until all of this gross wage inflation gets passed to consumers. It will be runaway wage driven inflation.

It took you 35 working years for you to save and your 401k to become worth $2M? Ooopps too bad, that $2M now worthless because wage inflation has ruined your entire life's savings.

I dunno, my life feels very similar to how it did the last time UPS workers negotiated a bigger salary for full-time employees. The Chicago school has done an impressive job making labor movements the cause for any and all ills in our society.

+1 it is so stupid to say suggest that the entire cost of this will be passed on to consumers and cause a wage-price spiral which hurts workers, especially when a) UPS says it is cutting its revenue forecasts sharply in the article and b) there is ample evidence from the last couple of years that inflation has been caused by firms sticking with high prices they pushed on us from supply chain problems even after those problems are gone.

Basically it’s Panglossian view that says workers should be glad with whatever crumbs management is willing to give them.

Labor costs always get passed on to consumers. You're just an idiot to think otherwise.

Wait until there's a recession or economic slowdown. They will be forced to increase prices are margins become compressed due to rising labor costs. Labor is always the most expensive cost. Price increase will come.

So who should get a good wage then? No one?

Skilled workers, workers with education, entrepreneurs, business owners. Just being a slab of meat to do hardwork shouldn't mean a high salary. Picking up trash is hard work. Roofing is hard work. Junk hauling is hard work. Landscaping is hard work.

You gonna pay them $170k too? Hard work does not automatically mean valuable work.

We are a capitalist society. Wages are set by what the market will bear and by what the industry needs to pay in order to attract sufficient work force to handle the work load. Basically a derivative of supply and demand.

Due to the pandemic and the explosion of on-line purchases and delivery, the need for package delivery staff has gone up. Right now, companies like UPS do not have enough drivers to handle the volume and ensure that delivery quotas and deadlines are met. So, they have to attract more staff and the only way to do that is to increase the salary and compensation offered.

Useless educations do not need to be paid extra. Just because someone has some random useless LA degree, does not mean they deserve to be paid higher. Their degrees add nothing to their market value and employers are not required to pay people back for spending money on an education. I've seen people hired for essentially non-skilled or low-skilled positions and had two employees hired for the same position, but one with a college degree got a significant increase in offer over the one without a degree. Same job, same required skills. The degreed person does not deserve more, but got more because of stupid corporate policies that give bonus incentives to those with a degree.

I think people who take difficult to fill positions for companies making a decent profit are worth more than people who happened to blow four years partying and taking courses in subjects that they'll never use and sit at a desk doing a job that makes no money, and just wastes time. There are thousands of random office workers who are completely replaceable and offer no additional skills or worth for their four years of Spanish and random liberal arts subjects.

A society full of haves and have-nots is an unstable society. It’s bad for the people who don’t earn enough to live comfortably, and it’s bad for the wealthy because they become in danger of revolt.

Unfettered capitalism is dangerous for all of us.