No, test optional isn’t the reason your kid didn’t get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

Amen! So many entitled people on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Test-optional adds to the uncertainty and STRESS.

This is the end result. People are not as confident they will get in, and therefore second-guess themselves, agonize and apply to more schools, which creates more work and more stress for everyone.

And as a poster said above, there aren't more seats in college. It is a zero sum game. Admissions officers taking a chance on a test-optional student WILL have to reject an academically qualified high stats student for that option!

So I disagree with the dismissive posters above regarding test-optional. Test-optional is actually the reason some students are not accepted. Literally.

Now yield protection is different: you can bypass that by demonstrating interest, and customizing your essay to make sure the college knows it isn't just a last recourse. All colleges want is a little courtesy in that regard, even though looking at stats, they are well aware they won't be the first choice. But again, customizing essays, visits and interviews are adding STRESS to the process.

So all this atmosphere leads to more stress than previously. This is not healthy or acceptable. No other country does college admissions this way, and the USA should not either!!!

I hear you, but students who are excellent students but don't test well are burdened with far more stress if tests aren't optional. Why can't they be allowed to put their best foot forward with awards, achievements, APs and other indices? As someone who teaches SAT test prep, I am bothered that people place too much emphasis on SAT in relation to merit.

We need to expand our definitions of top schools rather than hoard spaces for kids who are able to perform well on SAT.

No such thing. That’s called grade inflation.

BS---test anxiety is a real thing. Given that rarely (or rather never for most people) have I been required to take a test in the real world, never required to do a project without ability to look things up or work with anyone else if I have questions, why is how someone can do on an individual test so important to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

Amen! So many entitled people on this thread.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

Why is it the fault of the "US system"? Why are people so obsessed with attending an Elite university? In reality, those that benefit the most from that are those in lower income levels, first gen students, those students who do not already have the family/friends connections.
Why is it so hard for the entitled people to realize that their smart kid will have the same/very similar outcomes no matter where they go---if your kid is that smart, motivated, driven they can and will succeed anywhere if you haven't hindered them by making them be entitled brats who cannot handle not attending T25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

The colleges frequently discussed on here are a very, very small subset of US colleges as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

Why is it the fault of the "US system"? Why are people so obsessed with attending an Elite university? In reality, those that benefit the most from that are those in lower income levels, first gen students, those students who do not already have the family/friends connections.
Why is it so hard for the entitled people to realize that their smart kid will have the same/very similar outcomes no matter where they go---if your kid is that smart, motivated, driven they can and will succeed anywhere if you haven't hindered them by making them be entitled brats who cannot handle not attending T25.

The system is favoring rich ALDC kids and lower income levels, first gen students as you said.
(43% Harvard White is ALDC, URMs has much lower stats, etc.)

The system punishes hard working middle class. This is not good for the society as a whole
We need more fair transparent system for our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

Why is it the fault of the "US system"? Why are people so obsessed with attending an Elite university? In reality, those that benefit the most from that are those in lower income levels, first gen students, those students who do not already have the family/friends connections.
Why is it so hard for the entitled people to realize that their smart kid will have the same/very similar outcomes no matter where they go---if your kid is that smart, motivated, driven they can and will succeed anywhere if you haven't hindered them by making them be entitled brats who cannot handle not attending T25.

The massive professional marketing efforts put forth by these wealthy, influential institutions deserve a lot more blame than parents, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

Well, sure. How boring to have a bunch of 1559 SAT stressed out robots.

Using your 1% guidelines would leave out certain kids on the spectrum, adhd kids, kids with dyscalculia and dyslexia. That would be short sighted of the school to do.

And that would also leave out a nationally known teen spokesperson who “only” got a 1340 but has done more to change society than the 5.0 1600 kid.

Nah. This is not bad for society. Some horrible people have easily paid their way into those schools and brought their toxic values into society while decrying the “elite” despite attending two elite schools themselves.

Go to a school. Do well. You can still become a Senator and improve the world.

What’s the bottom third of the Harvard class of 2019 doing, I wonder?

This "a bunch of 1559 SAT stressed out robots." thing was mainly invented to discriminate Asians as they once did to Jews when they invented 'Holistic Admission'

However by the secret Harvard file revealed in the Supreme Court case, it's totally the opposite.
Asians actually excelled and are better in ECs, Leadership, Art, Music, etc.

and yea right we expect a bunch of these "nationally known teen spokesperson who “only” got a 1340 but has done more to change society" at the age 15.
Let the kids be kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

Why is it the fault of the "US system"? Why are people so obsessed with attending an Elite university? In reality, those that benefit the most from that are those in lower income levels, first gen students, those students who do not already have the family/friends connections.
Why is it so hard for the entitled people to realize that their smart kid will have the same/very similar outcomes no matter where they go---if your kid is that smart, motivated, driven they can and will succeed anywhere if you haven't hindered them by making them be entitled brats who cannot handle not attending T25.

The massive professional marketing efforts put forth by these wealthy, influential institutions deserve a lot more blame than parents, IMHO.

Why? They are just doing their job to have a large group of applicants to choose from for their freshman class. They are a business and want to do the best they can. Are people really too stupid to realize its a marketing scheme and their kid does not need to attend a T25 to succeed? Do you also believe you need a$75K BMW to be safe? Or that your kid must go to Disneyworld 2x/year to be happy?

In reality 99% of people do NOT attend T25 schools yet they are successful in life. In fact majority of these in the Exec Suite at most companies are NOT T25 undergrads. All you need to do is open your eyes and look around and you will realize that there are many places to get a great education. Smart people realize this and may strive for a T25 but at same time realize it's a reach with single digit acceptance rates, so have a well planned list of Targets and safeties they want to attend, because they realize that's most likely where they will be going. So sure, apply and hope you win the lottery, but don't become so caught up that you think your life is over because you got rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

The fault is mainly on messed up US system.

Why is it the fault of the "US system"? Why are people so obsessed with attending an Elite university? In reality, those that benefit the most from that are those in lower income levels, first gen students, those students who do not already have the family/friends connections.
Why is it so hard for the entitled people to realize that their smart kid will have the same/very similar outcomes no matter where they go---if your kid is that smart, motivated, driven they can and will succeed anywhere if you haven't hindered them by making them be entitled brats who cannot handle not attending T25.

The massive professional marketing efforts put forth by these wealthy, influential institutions deserve a lot more blame than parents, IMHO.

Why? They are just doing their job to have a large group of applicants to choose from for their freshman class. They are a business and want to do the best they can. Are people really too stupid to realize its a marketing scheme and their kid does not need to attend a T25 to succeed? Do you also believe you need a$75K BMW to be safe? Or that your kid must go to Disneyworld 2x/year to be happy?

In reality 99% of people do NOT attend T25 schools yet they are successful in life. In fact majority of these in the Exec Suite at most companies are NOT T25 undergrads. All you need to do is open your eyes and look around and you will realize that there are many places to get a great education. Smart people realize this and may strive for a T25 but at same time realize it's a reach with single digit acceptance rates, so have a well planned list of Targets and safeties they want to attend, because they realize that's most likely where they will be going. So sure, apply and hope you win the lottery, but don't become so caught up that you think your life is over because you got rejected.

People are asking more fair and transparent system.
Nothing's wrong with that and in fact, it is necessary for the future of our society and country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

Amen! So many entitled people on this thread.

This is the dumbest s**t, I have ever heard. You wouldn't dare say this to an URM or woman trying to get a coveted spot anywhere and coming up short and then venting. Everybody has the right to expect that if they work hard and play by the rules, they will get their reward in a country that is fair. Instead the universities play by twisted rules that are never made transparent and jerk people along. People are not entitled for expecting fair treatment, the Universities are evil for not being transparent about their admission policies.

Why don't HYPMS, make all their committee decisions and scores public after redacting personally identifying information. Why don't they release application and admit rates by race, score, GPA, legacy status etc every year so that people can clearly see what their real chances are.

Don't you dare call people entitled. If admissions were fair, everybody would know their chances very well as the would be enough data to make a very good guess. Instead these universities exploit applicants. They are the evil side here. Blame them

[Anonymous]

This is my take on this issue: You have two cooks.

Cook #1 is given the best ingredients, fresh, local, expensive, top notch. This chef cooks an amazing meal in a state of the art kitchen with a lot of assistants.
Cook #2 is given poor quality ingredients in a run down kitchen, but still manages to prepare an amazing meal all by themselves.

Who would you hire?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Well, these sermons about learning to deal with the harsh realities of college admissions is of little help to students who spent years of high school chasing an unattainable goal. Not because they didn't study enough or didn't give their best to their community, their extracurriculars and their internships but because they are from unwanted financial class, race, geography or whatever.

That is your fault as a parent if you made them think T25 is an "attainable goal" for anyone. They have always been a reach for everyone, save a well hooked student (think parent is a celebrity or presidents or bill gates, etc).
A well raised kid will grow up knowing you work hard in school to learn, do well and aim high, but also know their life is not over if they only get into school ranked #32.

Amen! So many entitled people on this thread.

This is the dumbest s**t, I have ever heard. You wouldn't dare say this to an URM or woman trying to get a coveted spot anywhere and coming up short and then venting. Everybody has the right to expect that if they work hard and play by the rules, they will get their reward in a country that is fair. Instead the universities play by twisted rules that are never made transparent and jerk people along. People are not entitled for expecting fair treatment, the Universities are evil for not being transparent about their admission policies.

Why don't HYPMS, make all their committee decisions and scores public after redacting personally identifying information. Why don't they release application and admit rates by race, score, GPA, legacy status etc every year so that people can clearly see what their real chances are.

Don't you dare call people entitled. If admissions were fair, everybody would know their chances very well as the would be enough data to make a very good guess. Instead these universities exploit applicants. They are the evil side here. Blame them

Because revealing that would not let people know what their real chances are. And there is already enough data to know if you don’t have a shot. So the only event that could happen from revealing more information is fewer applicants, which is the opposite of what they want to build their class from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is my take on this issue: You have two cooks.

Cook #1 is given the best ingredients, fresh, local, expensive, top notch. This chef cooks an amazing meal in a state of the art kitchen with a lot of assistants.
Cook #2 is given poor quality ingredients in a run down kitchen, but still manages to prepare an amazing meal all by themselves.

Who would you hire?

I would give cook #2 a bonus point if they produce really the same quality result.

However, Cook #1 usually produces better in reality.