Restorative Justice is struggling to show success in MCPS according to students, parents

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP here. I was kicked and hit by a second grade student in my class today. The student never even went to the office. I was told by admin that this might be a good opportunity to try a restorative circle with the student and counselor tomorrow. This will allow me to hear about the harm I brought on to her (for asking her to stop hitting another student) and she can hear about the harm she caused me. The goal being to repair harm in our classroom community. Guess when I get to engage in this hippie circle? You bet, my 30min. lunch. Can't wait....

I just can't. How can MCPS leadership drink this Kool-Aid and expect other sane adults to follow suit?

What an absolute joke. All that second grader is going to learn is that there are no consequences.

Really? You're saying that schools are these magical zones where our laws aren't enforced? Why is MCPD not doing their job? If laws are being broken, there are consequences that are dispensed by the courts. MCPS on the other hand is not the judiciary. Their job is to educate kids. If you want to be mad at someone, please look to MCPD who is clearly at fault.

You're a fool. Progressives made sure that cops were pushed out of school. The only way they can get involved in an incident that occurs on school grounds is if the admin calls the cops.

Principals wanted SROs. It was the Progressives like Elrich, and probably you, who doesn't deal with the drug use and violence in our schools, who kicked the cops out of the schools such that they cannot do as you claim they should.

Blame the Elrich and the Progressives, probably you who also support "defund the police".

This is complete nonsense. Eliminating the ineffective SRO jobs does not push cops out of schools. Their jurisdiction is Montgomery county and they're responsible for enforcing laws here PERIOD. This hasn't changed.

I think what he's saying is the cops are angry the politicians eliminated the cushy SRO jobs so they've purposely let schools turn into the wild west out of spite.

So MCPD is refusing to enforce our laws and putting our children at risk?

No. MCPS and the BOE nad the County Council have kicked police out of schools. MCPS has instructed admin NOT to involve MCPD and to handle incidents 'internally'.

Citation? I'm pretty sure they don't have the authority to do that.

of course they do. A fight or a teen taking drugs is not something that MCPS will call the cops for. They will only call the cops for something egregious like bringing a weapon to school.

So you're claiming that MCPS officials are covering up felonies?

Is fighting a felony? Minors taking drugs a felony?

Assault and possession of a controlled substance are both felonies

EXACTLY. The cover-up is MASSIVE.

so, if two kids are fighting in a public area, let's say a park, will the cops arrest them, and will the be a felony? Or will the cops call their parents and tell them to sort it out?

IMO, it only becomes a felony if the injury is so great that they need hospitalization. I don't think a fist fight will lead to felony charges for kids.

Fortunately, courts don't base this on your opinion and assault is a felony regardless of what you think the criteria is...

Exactly. Schools are shielding violent juveniles from any consequences. At least make a parent come get their child.

or simply report crime to the proper authorities who are paid to handle these things

[Anonymous]

What’s interesting to me is that if any parents reported on DCUM that their child is out of control because they don’t believe in any consequences and only talk things out (sometimes), posters would be all over that parent. Children without consequences learn that they can get away with anything and everything.

Yet this is the approach that schools are using and CO is surprised that students are out of control.

Hmmm- don’t want seem surprising to me. I feel bad for teachers caught in the middle.

[Anonymous]

My impression from my own experience and from speaking with other teachers is that restorative justice and Leader in Me can be more effective at the ES level.

Throwing it into MS and HS has been a bit of a disaster due to lack of support, training, time and school culture. As others have said. It is best for low level issues. Repeating offenders need more structure, support and accountability than RJ can provide. Indeed RJ isn’t really meant for the 5% of students causing 80% of the repeated issues and disruptions. Although it can have some effect if the student and staff have a very strong relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My impression from my own experience and from speaking with other teachers is that restorative justice and Leader in Me can be more effective at the ES level.

Throwing it into MS and HS has been a bit of a disaster due to lack of support, training, time and school culture. As others have said. It is best for low level issues. Repeating offenders need more structure, support and accountability than RJ can provide. Indeed RJ isn’t really meant for the 5% of students causing 80% of the repeated issues and disruptions. Although it can have some effect if the student and staff have a very strong relationship.

I work at an elementary school in MCPS and RJ and LIM are definitely not working. We have only seen an uptick in students fighting, eloping, hitting staff, etc. We have had zero students suspended this year and have at least eight students who frequently hit other students and staff. Last month three of them had to spend a day in the office and the three times I passed through they were playing on their Chromebooks laughing together. It's a joke. They know that nothing is going to happen if they misbehave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My impression from my own experience and from speaking with other teachers is that restorative justice and Leader in Me can be more effective at the ES level.

Throwing it into MS and HS has been a bit of a disaster due to lack of support, training, time and school culture. As others have said. It is best for low level issues. Repeating offenders need more structure, support and accountability than RJ can provide. Indeed RJ isn’t really meant for the 5% of students causing 80% of the repeated issues and disruptions. Although it can have some effect if the student and staff have a very strong relationship.

Besides Burning Tree (a school that has almost 0 Farms and 0 trauma) what other elem schools are reporting success with RJ? Certainly not my school in Germantown! This program isn’t working on any level!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression from my own experience and from speaking with other teachers is that restorative justice and Leader in Me can be more effective at the ES level.

Throwing it into MS and HS has been a bit of a disaster due to lack of support, training, time and school culture. As others have said. It is best for low level issues. Repeating offenders need more structure, support and accountability than RJ can provide. Indeed RJ isn’t really meant for the 5% of students causing 80% of the repeated issues and disruptions. Although it can have some effect if the student and staff have a very strong relationship.

Besides Burning Tree (a school that has almost 0 Farms and 0 trauma) what other elem schools are reporting success with RJ? Certainly not my school in Germantown! This program isn’t working on any level!

Or even better which are reporting problems with it? I'd like to hear real stories not just RW propaganda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression from my own experience and from speaking with other teachers is that restorative justice and Leader in Me can be more effective at the ES level.

Throwing it into MS and HS has been a bit of a disaster due to lack of support, training, time and school culture. As others have said. It is best for low level issues. Repeating offenders need more structure, support and accountability than RJ can provide. Indeed RJ isn’t really meant for the 5% of students causing 80% of the repeated issues and disruptions. Although it can have some effect if the student and staff have a very strong relationship.

I work at an elementary school in MCPS and RJ and LIM are definitely not working. We have only seen an uptick in students fighting, eloping, hitting staff, etc. We have had zero students suspended this year and have at least eight students who frequently hit other students and staff. Last month three of them had to spend a day in the office and the three times I passed through they were playing on their Chromebooks laughing together. It's a joke. They know that nothing is going to happen if they misbehave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression from my own experience and from speaking with other teachers is that restorative justice and Leader in Me can be more effective at the ES level.

Throwing it into MS and HS has been a bit of a disaster due to lack of support, training, time and school culture. As others have said. It is best for low level issues. Repeating offenders need more structure, support and accountability than RJ can provide. Indeed RJ isn’t really meant for the 5% of students causing 80% of the repeated issues and disruptions. Although it can have some effect if the student and staff have a very strong relationship.

Besides Burning Tree (a school that has almost 0 Farms and 0 trauma) what other elem schools are reporting success with RJ? Certainly not my school in Germantown! This program isn’t working on any level!

Or even better which are reporting problems with it? I'd like to hear real stories not just RW propaganda.

I work in Germantown too. RJ and Leader in Me aren't helping at all. The lack of consequences is taking a toll on our staff and the majority of students. I've never seen so many staff look defeated and negative. People are not well right now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

Are you a teacher in MCPS? Trust me, it's not making a difference at all. Where are these studies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

What studies? Every study I have seen has shown that it can not be used as the sole policy. But way more important, it is not effective in MCPS schools as shown by the report for MCPS and as has her shared by every teacher on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

Citation needed.

[Anonymous]

My son was assault this year. The counselor asked son and offender to sit together with guided interactions by counselor. I guess this was the restorative justice.

Son refused just as I would have refused sitting for some bs with a maniac who physically assaulted me.

So let your children know that RJ is opt out if they like.