How do you find God if you don't believe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

As long as you keep searching, you are on the right path. You own spirituality has nothing to do with the God though. There are many spiritual people who don't know the God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Hmmm. I wonder why God "reache[s] out" to some people and not others? Seems very arbitrary. Like in the OT, reaching out to one particular family in the desert of Iraq. Well, God moves in mysterious ways that's for sure.

No one can understand God's ways, that's for sure. And how could we, when we are talking about God? It is like expecting 2 dimensional creatures to understand the ways of the 3D world, or those who see in black and white what it's like to see in colors, except all that times a million. If you expect to understand exactly how God works before believing, you are misguided because no one will ever accomplish that in this life. Our brains are incapable of it, and I would be suspicious of any religion that claims otherwise.

We are not all destined to be the same or to have the same relationship with God. Here are the words of St. Therese of Lisieux (little flower):

Jesus has been gracious enough to teach me a lesson about the mystery of the differences in souls, simply by holding up to my eyes, the book of nature. I understood how all the flowers God created are beautiful- how the splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the lily do not take away from the perfume of the violet or the simplicity of the daisy. I understood that if all flowers wanted to be roses, nature would lose her springtime beauty, and the fields would no longer be decked out with little wildflower.

And so it is in the world of souls… Jesus’ garden. He willed to create great souls comparable to lilies and roses, but he created small ones as well… and these must be content to be daisies or violets destined to give joy to God’s glances, when he looks down at His feet. Perfection consists in doing God’s will… in being what He would have us be.

JUST AS THE sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth, so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though there were no others like it. And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day, in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

She lived less than 25 years in total and lived at home and then at a convent. She didn't really venture out into the world.

And she managed to become one of the most popular saints of all time. So your point is?... that people need to do great things and experience lots of worldly glory in order to be great and have anything to offer? In fact, that is exactly what Christianity argues against. That God loves every human with an everlasting love, regardless of human accomplishments and circumstances, and that anyone can do things in their capacity to please and honor God.

I think a lot of Catholic saints are weird not in a good way. They have some mental issue often and the church venerates these people who are basically against life or who are very sick. A lot of the women are people who are very young and frail and basically submissive in every way. St Catherine of Siena is another one. She was anorexic and didn’t eat. I just think a lot of these people the Catholic Church thinks are so holy are actually people with various major health issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

You have had a private school education, have a college degree, a career, and a supportive family. You have health insurance and can access mental health care and afford prescription drugs to treat your depression and mental health struggles. You can afford your home, transportation, pay your bills, buy groceries, have a computer and internet access. You were not sexually, emotionally, or physically abused as a child or adult.

You’ve been blessed beyond measure throughout your life. If you don’t want to believe in the God of the bible, you were privileged to be born and live in a country with complete religious freedom- both freedom to believe, or not to believe.

I think calling people who are exercising their religious freedom (especially in a forum specifically discussing religion) is gross. Nobody makes you come to a religious forum. This is a place to specifically discuss religion. You don’t have to discuss Christianity or Christians. No Christian asked you to ask questions about Christianity or religion or spiritual beliefs or practices.

Because the majority of Americans are Christian, including our President and his family, as well as the majority of our elected officials claiming to have a Christian faith tradition, it’s completely understandable that Christianity plays a role in American society, politics, and culture.

I wish you luck on navigating your spiritual life. It’s clear that even with all your familial and material blessings, you are missing a spiritual component to your life. You should focus on your mental health, and focus on supporting your mom. Since you both have struggled with suicidal thoughts, you need to monitor each other and help each other in tough times and make sure you both have what you need to remain as physically and mentally healthy as possible.

Realize many people in America are not as well off or financially stable as you are, and consider donating your time and talents and financial support to organizations you feel are worthwhile, to help your fellow man.

Perhaps start a thread here encouraging others to do the same, share resources that are helpful.

Also calling people names and saying free expression of speech and religion are “gross” isn’t very kind or tolerant. Perhaps working on accepting others and giving them space to exercise their God given freedoms might be appropriate. Tolerance and acceptance is for everyone, not just for ideals/values/morals you approve of personally or happen to agree with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Hmmm. I wonder why God "reache[s] out" to some people and not others? Seems very arbitrary. Like in the OT, reaching out to one particular family in the desert of Iraq. Well, God moves in mysterious ways that's for sure.

No one can understand God's ways, that's for sure. And how could we, when we are talking about God? It is like expecting 2 dimensional creatures to understand the ways of the 3D world, or those who see in black and white what it's like to see in colors, except all that times a million. If you expect to understand exactly how God works before believing, you are misguided because no one will ever accomplish that in this life. Our brains are incapable of it, and I would be suspicious of any religion that claims otherwise.

We are not all destined to be the same or to have the same relationship with God. Here are the words of St. Therese of Lisieux (little flower):

Jesus has been gracious enough to teach me a lesson about the mystery of the differences in souls, simply by holding up to my eyes, the book of nature. I understood how all the flowers God created are beautiful- how the splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the lily do not take away from the perfume of the violet or the simplicity of the daisy. I understood that if all flowers wanted to be roses, nature would lose her springtime beauty, and the fields would no longer be decked out with little wildflower.

And so it is in the world of souls… Jesus’ garden. He willed to create great souls comparable to lilies and roses, but he created small ones as well… and these must be content to be daisies or violets destined to give joy to God’s glances, when he looks down at His feet. Perfection consists in doing God’s will… in being what He would have us be.

JUST AS THE sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth, so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though there were no others like it. And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day, in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

She lived less than 25 years in total and lived at home and then at a convent. She didn't really venture out into the world.

And she managed to become one of the most popular saints of all time. So your point is?... that people need to do great things and experience lots of worldly glory in order to be great and have anything to offer? In fact, that is exactly what Christianity argues against. That God loves every human with an everlasting love, regardless of human accomplishments and circumstances, and that anyone can do things in their capacity to please and honor God.

I think a lot of Catholic saints are weird not in a good way. They have some mental issue often and the church venerates these people who are basically against life or who are very sick. A lot of the women are people who are very young and frail and basically submissive in every way. St Catherine of Siena is another one. She was anorexic and didn’t eat. I just think a lot of these people the Catholic Church thinks are so holy are actually people with various major health issues.

Not a healthy person mentally or physically
https://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/fitness/therese-of-lisieux-a-real-saint-or-a-suitable-case-for-treatment-26523648.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

Just exactly what are you suggesting regarding Mr. Claus & the E. Bunny ?

[Anonymous]

For me, the key is faith, not religion. I want to believe and I have to believe in a higher power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me, the key is faith, not religion. I want to believe and I have to believe in a higher power.

But don't you ever want to find out what a high power is? Don't you ever want to meet this high power?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

I hope you see the correlation between believing in Easter Bunny and depression. Believing in Jesus is nothing like believing in Easter Bunny, but until you learn the differences you will continue to be depressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

I hope you see the correlation between believing in Easter Bunny and depression. Believing in Jesus is nothing like believing in Easter Bunny, but until you learn the differences you will continue to be depressed.

Pp is correct about believing in the Easter bunny vs Jesus. Only children believe in the Easter Bunny, whereas some grown adults believe in Jesus. Pp is wrong about depression, though. There are plenty of people who don't believe in either the Easter Bunny or Jesus who are not depressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

You have had a private school education, have a college degree, a career, and a supportive family. You have health insurance and can access mental health care and afford prescription drugs to treat your depression and mental health struggles. [b]You can afford your home, transportation, pay your bills, buy groceries, have a computer and internet access. You were not sexually, emotionally, or physically abused as a child or adult.

You’ve been blessed beyond measure throughout your life. If you don’t want to believe in the God of the bible, you were privileged to be born and live in a country with complete religious freedom- both freedom to believe, or not to believe.

I think calling people who are exercising their religious freedom (especially in a forum specifically discussing religion) is gross. Nobody makes you come to a religious forum. This is a place to specifically discuss religion. You don’t have to discuss Christianity or Christians. No Christian asked you to ask questions about Christianity or religion or spiritual beliefs or practices.

Because the majority of Americans are Christian, including our President and his family, as well as the majority of our elected officials claiming to have a Christian faith tradition, it’s completely understandable that Christianity plays a role in American society, politics, and culture.

I wish you luck on navigating your spiritual life. It’s clear that even with all your familial and material blessings, you are missing a spiritual component to your life. You should focus on your mental health, and focus on supporting your mom. Since you both have struggled with suicidal thoughts, you need to monitor each other and help each other in tough times and make sure you both have what you need to remain as physically and mentally healthy as possible.

Realize many people in America are not as well off or financially stable as you are, and consider donating your time and talents and financial support to organizations you feel are worthwhile, to help your fellow man.

Perhaps start a thread here encouraging others to do the same, share resources that are helpful.

Also calling people names and saying free expression of speech and religion are “gross” isn’t very kind or tolerant. Perhaps working on accepting others and giving them space to exercise their God given freedoms might be appropriate. Tolerance and acceptance is for everyone, not just for ideals/values/morals you approve of personally or happen to agree with.

I don't have a problem with Christians generally just judgmental close minded ones like you. Most of my friends and family identify as Christian and are open and tolerant people who do not diss other people's faiths.

You know very little about my childhood and early adult life other than I went to boarding school. You are assuming that I don't already work with charities and volunteer my time- you couldn't be more wrong. I am leaving this thread now, so maybe you can focus your lecturing on someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

You have had a private school education, have a college degree, a career, and a supportive family. You have health insurance and can access mental health care and afford prescription drugs to treat your depression and mental health struggles. [b]You can afford your home, transportation, pay your bills, buy groceries, have a computer and internet access. You were not sexually, emotionally, or physically abused as a child or adult.

You’ve been blessed beyond measure throughout your life. If you don’t want to believe in the God of the bible, you were privileged to be born and live in a country with complete religious freedom- both freedom to believe, or not to believe.

I think calling people who are exercising their religious freedom (especially in a forum specifically discussing religion) is gross. Nobody makes you come to a religious forum. This is a place to specifically discuss religion. You don’t have to discuss Christianity or Christians. No Christian asked you to ask questions about Christianity or religion or spiritual beliefs or practices.

Because the majority of Americans are Christian, including our President and his family, as well as the majority of our elected officials claiming to have a Christian faith tradition, it’s completely understandable that Christianity plays a role in American society, politics, and culture.

I wish you luck on navigating your spiritual life. It’s clear that even with all your familial and material blessings, you are missing a spiritual component to your life. You should focus on your mental health, and focus on supporting your mom. Since you both have struggled with suicidal thoughts, you need to monitor each other and help each other in tough times and make sure you both have what you need to remain as physically and mentally healthy as possible.

Realize many people in America are not as well off or financially stable as you are, and consider donating your time and talents and financial support to organizations you feel are worthwhile, to help your fellow man.

Perhaps start a thread here encouraging others to do the same, share resources that are helpful.

Also calling people names and saying free expression of speech and religion are “gross” isn’t very kind or tolerant. Perhaps working on accepting others and giving them space to exercise their God given freedoms might be appropriate. Tolerance and acceptance is for everyone, not just for ideals/values/morals you approve of personally or happen to agree with.

I don't have a problem with Christians generally just judgmental close minded ones like you. Most of my friends and family identify as Christian and are open and tolerant people who do not diss other people's faiths.

You know very little about my childhood and early adult life other than I went to boarding school. You are assuming that I don't already work with charities and volunteer my time- you couldn't be more wrong. I am leaving this thread now, so maybe you can focus your lecturing on someone else.

Actually please don't lecture anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

I am one of the obnoxious Christian posters you reference and I wish you luck on your journey. If I may, i want to address your view of Christians pushing others and being judgmental, because I think that view stems from Christians claiming Christianity to be the one true religion. As apparently triggering as that may sound, on a logical level, what exactly does a religion that doesn't claim to be objective right offer anyone? Truly, i don't get it. How is a religion that says believe whatever you want that makes you feel good and let others believe whatever they want that makes them feel good worth anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

You have had a private school education, have a college degree, a career, and a supportive family. You have health insurance and can access mental health care and afford prescription drugs to treat your depression and mental health struggles. [b]You can afford your home, transportation, pay your bills, buy groceries, have a computer and internet access. You were not sexually, emotionally, or physically abused as a child or adult.

You’ve been blessed beyond measure throughout your life. If you don’t want to believe in the God of the bible, you were privileged to be born and live in a country with complete religious freedom- both freedom to believe, or not to believe.

I think calling people who are exercising their religious freedom (especially in a forum specifically discussing religion) is gross. Nobody makes you come to a religious forum. This is a place to specifically discuss religion. You don’t have to discuss Christianity or Christians. No Christian asked you to ask questions about Christianity or religion or spiritual beliefs or practices.

Because the majority of Americans are Christian, including our President and his family, as well as the majority of our elected officials claiming to have a Christian faith tradition, it’s completely understandable that Christianity plays a role in American society, politics, and culture.

I wish you luck on navigating your spiritual life. It’s clear that even with all your familial and material blessings, you are missing a spiritual component to your life. You should focus on your mental health, and focus on supporting your mom. Since you both have struggled with suicidal thoughts, you need to monitor each other and help each other in tough times and make sure you both have what you need to remain as physically and mentally healthy as possible.

Realize many people in America are not as well off or financially stable as you are, and consider donating your time and talents and financial support to organizations you feel are worthwhile, to help your fellow man.

Perhaps start a thread here encouraging others to do the same, share resources that are helpful.

Also calling people names and saying free expression of speech and religion are “gross” isn’t very kind or tolerant. Perhaps working on accepting others and giving them space to exercise their God given freedoms might be appropriate. Tolerance and acceptance is for everyone, not just for ideals/values/morals you approve of personally or happen to agree with.

I don't have a problem with Christians generally just judgmental close minded ones like you. Most of my friends and family identify as Christian and are open and tolerant people who do not diss other people's faiths.

You know very little about my childhood and early adult life other than I went to boarding school. You are assuming that I don't already work with charities and volunteer my time- you couldn't be more wrong. I am leaving this thread now, so maybe you can focus your lecturing on someone else.

You mean, you don't have a problem with the people who don't challenge you and make you uncomfortable. And yet that is how we all grow. I am not PP but you are assuming a whole lot about the Christian posters here too. Close minded? I don't think anyone on here has spent as much time research all the major religions out there as I have. I respect what deserves respect in each one and they each have their proper place in God's salvation plan. You are the one calling basically all the Abrahamic religions bigoted and unworthy of consideration (because yes, all three fundamentally believe they are the one true religion). So please spend some time on introspection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Hmmm. I wonder why God "reache[s] out" to some people and not others? Seems very arbitrary. Like in the OT, reaching out to one particular family in the desert of Iraq. Well, God moves in mysterious ways that's for sure.

No one can understand God's ways, that's for sure. And how could we, when we are talking about God? It is like expecting 2 dimensional creatures to understand the ways of the 3D world, or those who see in black and white what it's like to see in colors, except all that times a million. If you expect to understand exactly how God works before believing, you are misguided because no one will ever accomplish that in this life. Our brains are incapable of it, and I would be suspicious of any religion that claims otherwise.

We are not all destined to be the same or to have the same relationship with God. Here are the words of St. Therese of Lisieux (little flower):

Jesus has been gracious enough to teach me a lesson about the mystery of the differences in souls, simply by holding up to my eyes, the book of nature. I understood how all the flowers God created are beautiful- how the splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the lily do not take away from the perfume of the violet or the simplicity of the daisy. I understood that if all flowers wanted to be roses, nature would lose her springtime beauty, and the fields would no longer be decked out with little wildflower.

And so it is in the world of souls… Jesus’ garden. He willed to create great souls comparable to lilies and roses, but he created small ones as well… and these must be content to be daisies or violets destined to give joy to God’s glances, when he looks down at His feet. Perfection consists in doing God’s will… in being what He would have us be.

JUST AS THE sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth, so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though there were no others like it. And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day, in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

She lived less than 25 years in total and lived at home and then at a convent. She didn't really venture out into the world.

And she managed to become one of the most popular saints of all time. So your point is?... that people need to do great things and experience lots of worldly glory in order to be great and have anything to offer? In fact, that is exactly what Christianity argues against. That God loves every human with an everlasting love, regardless of human accomplishments and circumstances, and that anyone can do things in their capacity to please and honor God.

I think a lot of Catholic saints are weird not in a good way. They have some mental issue often and the church venerates these people who are basically against life or who are very sick. A lot of the women are people who are very young and frail and basically submissive in every way. St Catherine of Siena is another one. She was anorexic and didn’t eat. I just think a lot of these people the Catholic Church thinks are so holy are actually people with various major health issues.

Oh wow now you are judging whole groups of Catholic saints and therefore, the billions of Catholics and other Christians who have looked up to them. Now who is the arrogant tribe.... Not sure if have you actually read the readings of any of these saints, especially the doctors of the church such as Catherine of Siena and St. Therese, but their writings speak for themselves. If they had "mental illnesses" then perhaps it would serve us all well if more of us had mental illnesses. And submissive? Catherine of Siena ordered the Pope around, telling him to stop being fearful and act like a man. They were submissive only to God, and that is perhaps what triggers atheists, who submit to no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP, if you are still here, or anyone else searching, the fundamental question is: do you even believe in the possibility of a correct answer, of an objective Truth? Because if you won't even allow for that possibility (maybe because you can't stand the thought of hurting other people's sensibilities because it would imply others are wrong), then you are not ready for this journey. Focus on that fundamental issue first. People get through this hump in varying ways. For some, it might be that they get there intellectually or logically. For others, it might be precipitated by an existential crisis that humbles them enough to say anything's possible. But that is just based on my observations. God works in mysterious ways and there are certainly no limits to how he breaks down people's walls. Good luck.

I don't think Christianity is my path to finding God, this thread has confirmed it. Some of the posts are lecturing and overbearing. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, that doesn't mean that there isn't a Higher power or I can't find my own Spirituality. I don't care if some of the Christians on here think I am wrong. There have been some helpful answers to my post but it has mainly been hijacked by one or two posters who seem intent in bullishly pushing Christianity and telling everyone else they are wrong. Pretty gross.

I am one of the obnoxious Christian posters you reference and I wish you luck on your journey. If I may, i want to address your view of Christians pushing others and being judgmental, because I think that view stems from Christians claiming Christianity to be the one true religion. As apparently triggering as that may sound, on a logical level, what exactly does a religion that doesn't claim to be objective right offer anyone? Truly, i don't get it. How is a religion that says believe whatever you want that makes you feel good and let others believe whatever they want that makes them feel good worth anything?

It's worth something because it makes them feel good.