Talking about Santa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a history PhD who taught in many colleges and universities over the years, it saddens me to see how many people here don't have any understanding of how folk beliefs like Santa come to be. The folks (including me in some cases) posting about ancient gods with flying reindeer are trying to show what any person with a college education should know - that holiday celebrations and folk beliefs evolve over time and absorb bits and pieces of many past traditions. The roots of Santa are ancient. No one said the Slavic sun goddess was the original Santa - what a sad lack of reading comprehension on the part of the PP who claimed that. It was one of many examples given of Santa features that pre-date Christianity itself, thus clearly showing (or it should be clear, anyway) that Santa as we know him is not wholly, or even mostly, derived from Christian texts or a saint.

I can't even remember the original point of this thread, but I think it had to do with non-Christians celebrating Christmas, Christians popping up to claim they basically have a monopoly on Christmas and that it's disrespectful for others to celebrate it, and then people trying to show that the most popular Christmas traditions aren't rooted in Christianity in the first place.

But unfortunately, as usual on dcum, ignorance reigns supreme and many posters are either trolling or just incapable of understanding history. How sad for those of us who have spent out lives trying to teach it.

Nope. It’s rich that you’re accusing others of lack of reading comprehension. Please point to the post that said Christians have a monopoly on Christmas. Look, it’s great you have a PhD in modern European or Slavic history or something, but your insults and distortions suggest you’re not an academic at all.

What you’re missing/refusing to understand is that a vomit bucket of posts from places like Mongolia, cut and pasted from an atheist blog, just isn’t persuasive and barely constitutes argument. Were those yours? How embarrassing for you.

You’re also missing that nobody here seems to care that Santa is a myth, and that he may even come in part from earlier myths. But Santa also brings new things to the folklore, such as 1) St. Nicholas around 300AD and 2) the gospel’s wise men who brought gifts to the baby Jesus. THAT’s how history works, sorry someone on DCUM needs to explain it to you.

— A history major from a great college who got a graduate degree and now does research in a different field

Some posters on this thread are rejecting *everything* not Christian.

This rejection of historical folklore goes way beyond one post about a Slavic goddess.

Cite please. As a historian you should be able to provide cites.

I’m not the historian, but many posts with non-religious origins were removed even though they were legit and very much relevant to the discussion. About Odin, shaman, the origin of Santa & gift giving in the US, Krampus, etc.

Someone just rejected Odin again.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/180/1096836.page#23886353

Shaman? What about shaman? You can't just toss out vague names and expect us to agree.

The Smithsonian (not your average blogger) says that "Krampus has nothing to do with Christianity." Also this: "A mangled, deranged face with bloodshot eyes tops a furry black body. Giant horns curl up from his head, displaying his half-goat, half-demon lineage." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/krampus-could-come-you-holiday-season-180957438/

Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list. I posted details but they were deleted. Feel free to google.

What was the "nice" part?

Why would I spend the time to put together a thoughtful post that will just get deleted?

Google it.

Translation: despite my claim, there’s nothing “nice” about Krampus. So I will just stomp off in a huff.

Reread what I wrote. I didn’t say anything about Krampus being “nice”. Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote?

Again, I already posted about it, but someone got it deleted. Not bothering to do it again.

Nope. At 9:55 today you wrote “Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list.”

Again, what’s the “nice” part, lol.

Right. I didn’t “claim” or “say anything about Krampus being “nice”” (15:01). I was talking about the Santa naughty/nice list.

Do we have a language barrier here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a history PhD who taught in many colleges and universities over the years, it saddens me to see how many people here don't have any understanding of how folk beliefs like Santa come to be. The folks (including me in some cases) posting about ancient gods with flying reindeer are trying to show what any person with a college education should know - that holiday celebrations and folk beliefs evolve over time and absorb bits and pieces of many past traditions. The roots of Santa are ancient. No one said the Slavic sun goddess was the original Santa - what a sad lack of reading comprehension on the part of the PP who claimed that. It was one of many examples given of Santa features that pre-date Christianity itself, thus clearly showing (or it should be clear, anyway) that Santa as we know him is not wholly, or even mostly, derived from Christian texts or a saint.

I can't even remember the original point of this thread, but I think it had to do with non-Christians celebrating Christmas, Christians popping up to claim they basically have a monopoly on Christmas and that it's disrespectful for others to celebrate it, and then people trying to show that the most popular Christmas traditions aren't rooted in Christianity in the first place.

But unfortunately, as usual on dcum, ignorance reigns supreme and many posters are either trolling or just incapable of understanding history. How sad for those of us who have spent out lives trying to teach it.

Nope. It’s rich that you’re accusing others of lack of reading comprehension. Please point to the post that said Christians have a monopoly on Christmas. Look, it’s great you have a PhD in modern European or Slavic history or something, but your insults and distortions suggest you’re not an academic at all.

What you’re missing/refusing to understand is that a vomit bucket of posts from places like Mongolia, cut and pasted from an atheist blog, just isn’t persuasive and barely constitutes argument. Were those yours? How embarrassing for you.

You’re also missing that nobody here seems to care that Santa is a myth, and that he may even come in part from earlier myths. But Santa also brings new things to the folklore, such as 1) St. Nicholas around 300AD and 2) the gospel’s wise men who brought gifts to the baby Jesus. THAT’s how history works, sorry someone on DCUM needs to explain it to you.

— A history major from a great college who got a graduate degree and now does research in a different field

Some posters on this thread are rejecting *everything* not Christian.

This rejection of historical folklore goes way beyond one post about a Slavic goddess.

Cite please. As a historian you should be able to provide cites.

I’m not the historian, but many posts with non-religious origins were removed even though they were legit and very much relevant to the discussion. About Odin, shaman, the origin of Santa & gift giving in the US, Krampus, etc.

Someone just rejected Odin again.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/180/1096836.page#23886353

Shaman? What about shaman? You can't just toss out vague names and expect us to agree.

The Smithsonian (not your average blogger) says that "Krampus has nothing to do with Christianity." Also this: "A mangled, deranged face with bloodshot eyes tops a furry black body. Giant horns curl up from his head, displaying his half-goat, half-demon lineage." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/krampus-could-come-you-holiday-season-180957438/

Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list. I posted details but they were deleted. Feel free to google.

What was the "nice" part?

Why would I spend the time to put together a thoughtful post that will just get deleted?

Google it.

Translation: despite my claim, there’s nothing “nice” about Krampus. So I will just stomp off in a huff.

Reread what I wrote. I didn’t say anything about Krampus being “nice”. Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote?

Again, I already posted about it, but someone got it deleted. Not bothering to do it again.

Nope. At 9:55 today you wrote “Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list.”

Again, what’s the “nice” part, lol.

Right. I didn’t “claim” or “say anything about Krampus being “nice”” (15:01). I was talking about the Santa naughty/nice list.

Do we have a language barrier here?

If there’s a barrier, it’s on your side. Your words “nice/naughty” are pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

He usually doesn’t go for pages of cut and paste from a dubious blog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

He usually doesn’t go for pages of cut and paste from a dubious blog.

I didn’t see the “dubious blog”.

And MANY MANY threads on this forum are filled with pages and pages of copy & pastes. Usually from Wikipedia. Didn’t see you complaining about a single one of those.

Why is there a different standard for these posts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

I didn’t copy and paste from “dubious blogs”.

I think it’s easier for him just to delete a bunch of posts instead of going through each one individually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

I didn’t copy and paste from “dubious blogs”.

I think it’s easier for him just to delete a bunch of posts instead of going through each one individually.

Sorry, but you did post from a dubious blog. For pages and pages. You can’t write the deletions off as the moderator being lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

I didn’t copy and paste from “dubious blogs”.

I think it’s easier for him just to delete a bunch of posts instead of going through each one individually.

Sorry, but you did post from a dubious blog. For pages and pages. You can’t write the deletions off as the moderator being lazy.

Which “dubious blog”? I posted from several different sources about several different topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

I didn’t copy and paste from “dubious blogs”.

I think it’s easier for him just to delete a bunch of posts instead of going through each one individually.

Sorry, but you did post from a dubious blog. For pages and pages. You can’t write the deletions off as the moderator being lazy.

Which “dubious blog”? I posted from several different sources about several different topics.

Give it up, nobody cares. The moderator judged your blog posts and deleted them. Live with it. Bye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a history PhD who taught in many colleges and universities over the years, it saddens me to see how many people here don't have any understanding of how folk beliefs like Santa come to be. The folks (including me in some cases) posting about ancient gods with flying reindeer are trying to show what any person with a college education should know - that holiday celebrations and folk beliefs evolve over time and absorb bits and pieces of many past traditions. The roots of Santa are ancient. No one said the Slavic sun goddess was the original Santa - what a sad lack of reading comprehension on the part of the PP who claimed that. It was one of many examples given of Santa features that pre-date Christianity itself, thus clearly showing (or it should be clear, anyway) that Santa as we know him is not wholly, or even mostly, derived from Christian texts or a saint.

I can't even remember the original point of this thread, but I think it had to do with non-Christians celebrating Christmas, Christians popping up to claim they basically have a monopoly on Christmas and that it's disrespectful for others to celebrate it, and then people trying to show that the most popular Christmas traditions aren't rooted in Christianity in the first place.

But unfortunately, as usual on dcum, ignorance reigns supreme and many posters are either trolling or just incapable of understanding history. How sad for those of us who have spent out lives trying to teach it.

Nope. It’s rich that you’re accusing others of lack of reading comprehension. Please point to the post that said Christians have a monopoly on Christmas. Look, it’s great you have a PhD in modern European or Slavic history or something, but your insults and distortions suggest you’re not an academic at all.

What you’re missing/refusing to understand is that a vomit bucket of posts from places like Mongolia, cut and pasted from an atheist blog, just isn’t persuasive and barely constitutes argument. Were those yours? How embarrassing for you.

You’re also missing that nobody here seems to care that Santa is a myth, and that he may even come in part from earlier myths. But Santa also brings new things to the folklore, such as 1) St. Nicholas around 300AD and 2) the gospel’s wise men who brought gifts to the baby Jesus. THAT’s how history works, sorry someone on DCUM needs to explain it to you.

— A history major from a great college who got a graduate degree and now does research in a different field

Some posters on this thread are rejecting *everything* not Christian.

This rejection of historical folklore goes way beyond one post about a Slavic goddess.

Cite please. As a historian you should be able to provide cites.

I’m not the historian, but many posts with non-religious origins were removed even though they were legit and very much relevant to the discussion. About Odin, shaman, the origin of Santa & gift giving in the US, Krampus, etc.

Someone just rejected Odin again.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/180/1096836.page#23886353

Shaman? What about shaman? You can't just toss out vague names and expect us to agree.

The Smithsonian (not your average blogger) says that "Krampus has nothing to do with Christianity." Also this: "A mangled, deranged face with bloodshot eyes tops a furry black body. Giant horns curl up from his head, displaying his half-goat, half-demon lineage." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/krampus-could-come-you-holiday-season-180957438/

Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list. I posted details but they were deleted. Feel free to google.

What was the "nice" part?

Why would I spend the time to put together a thoughtful post that will just get deleted?

Google it.

Translation: despite my claim, there’s nothing “nice” about Krampus. So I will just stomp off in a huff.

Reread what I wrote. I didn’t say anything about Krampus being “nice”. Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote?

Again, I already posted about it, but someone got it deleted. Not bothering to do it again.

Nope. At 9:55 today you wrote “Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list.”

Again, what’s the “nice” part, lol.

Still waiting for an answer to this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

I didn’t copy and paste from “dubious blogs”.

I think it’s easier for him just to delete a bunch of posts instead of going through each one individually.

Sorry, but you did post from a dubious blog. For pages and pages. You can’t write the deletions off as the moderator being lazy.

Which “dubious blog”? I posted from several different sources about several different topics.

Give it up, nobody cares. The moderator judged your blog posts and deleted them. Live with it. Bye.

That’s what I thought. You made up this “dubious blog” claim because you didn’t like the content.

I posted from several different sources about several different, related topics. None were from “dubious blogs”.

None of my sources were any more dubious than Wikipedia, which gets aggressively copy & pasted on this forum. Funny how you never complain about those posts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a history PhD who taught in many colleges and universities over the years, it saddens me to see how many people here don't have any understanding of how folk beliefs like Santa come to be. The folks (including me in some cases) posting about ancient gods with flying reindeer are trying to show what any person with a college education should know - that holiday celebrations and folk beliefs evolve over time and absorb bits and pieces of many past traditions. The roots of Santa are ancient. No one said the Slavic sun goddess was the original Santa - what a sad lack of reading comprehension on the part of the PP who claimed that. It was one of many examples given of Santa features that pre-date Christianity itself, thus clearly showing (or it should be clear, anyway) that Santa as we know him is not wholly, or even mostly, derived from Christian texts or a saint.

I can't even remember the original point of this thread, but I think it had to do with non-Christians celebrating Christmas, Christians popping up to claim they basically have a monopoly on Christmas and that it's disrespectful for others to celebrate it, and then people trying to show that the most popular Christmas traditions aren't rooted in Christianity in the first place.

But unfortunately, as usual on dcum, ignorance reigns supreme and many posters are either trolling or just incapable of understanding history. How sad for those of us who have spent out lives trying to teach it.

Nope. It’s rich that you’re accusing others of lack of reading comprehension. Please point to the post that said Christians have a monopoly on Christmas. Look, it’s great you have a PhD in modern European or Slavic history or something, but your insults and distortions suggest you’re not an academic at all.

What you’re missing/refusing to understand is that a vomit bucket of posts from places like Mongolia, cut and pasted from an atheist blog, just isn’t persuasive and barely constitutes argument. Were those yours? How embarrassing for you.

You’re also missing that nobody here seems to care that Santa is a myth, and that he may even come in part from earlier myths. But Santa also brings new things to the folklore, such as 1) St. Nicholas around 300AD and 2) the gospel’s wise men who brought gifts to the baby Jesus. THAT’s how history works, sorry someone on DCUM needs to explain it to you.

— A history major from a great college who got a graduate degree and now does research in a different field

Some posters on this thread are rejecting *everything* not Christian.

This rejection of historical folklore goes way beyond one post about a Slavic goddess.

Cite please. As a historian you should be able to provide cites.

I’m not the historian, but many posts with non-religious origins were removed even though they were legit and very much relevant to the discussion. About Odin, shaman, the origin of Santa & gift giving in the US, Krampus, etc.

Someone just rejected Odin again.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/180/1096836.page#23886353

Shaman? What about shaman? You can't just toss out vague names and expect us to agree.

The Smithsonian (not your average blogger) says that "Krampus has nothing to do with Christianity." Also this: "A mangled, deranged face with bloodshot eyes tops a furry black body. Giant horns curl up from his head, displaying his half-goat, half-demon lineage." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/krampus-could-come-you-holiday-season-180957438/

Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list. I posted details but they were deleted. Feel free to google.

What was the "nice" part?

Why would I spend the time to put together a thoughtful post that will just get deleted?

Google it.

Translation: despite my claim, there’s nothing “nice” about Krampus. So I will just stomp off in a huff.

Reread what I wrote. I didn’t say anything about Krampus being “nice”. Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote?

Again, I already posted about it, but someone got it deleted. Not bothering to do it again.

Nope. At 9:55 today you wrote “Krampus was part of the inspiration for Santa’s nice/naughty list.”

Again, what’s the “nice” part, lol.

Still waiting for an answer to this.

I responded above.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/225/1096836.page#23891249

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outraged pagan and "historian" pps seem to think anybody cares that Santa is a fusion of sources, some Christian (the magi bearing gifts, St. Nicholas) and some maybe not (Odin).

Newsflash: WE DON'T CARE. Santa has nothing to do with worship. We know Santa is a myth and, as such, we already accepted his mythicism long ago.

However, all of modern paganism is derived from stealing and drastically modifying earlier pagan religions. That's where you should be directing your ire.

Some PPs do care very much. They reject possible non-Christian influences.

No one is "rejecting possible non-Christian influences" they're asking for actual sources (like primary sources, not something you saw on the History Channel), and they're pointing out where the comparisons are flimsy. You seem to want to characterize this as something it isn't and engage in name calling rather than actually having a discussion about the questions.

I haven’t called anyone names.

Funny how random opinions/blogs are just fine for many, many posts in this forum. Some that get copied and pasted endlessly.

I post some legit sources (from researched books, etc) and now all of a sudden we need direct quotes from primary sources. LOL.

That blog wasn’t legit, sorry. It was a random compilation of scattered facts, guesses and opinions.

You people who keep asking for primary (or at least reputable secondary) sources about Jesus are shocked, shocked when somebody asks for a primary source about Odin. Go figure.

I’ve posted from a variety of different sources. Not just a blog.

But they were all non-Christian inspirations so they got deleted.

The moderator is agnostic/atheist. I don’t know why they were deleted, but maybe he thought they were junk.

Probably somebody reported something - the Slavic princess post? - and then he did an over aggressive “clean up”.

There was nothing “junky” about what I posted.

You think the moderator has time to clean up pages of your cut-and-pastes without there being a good reason?

I didn’t copy and paste from “dubious blogs”.

I think it’s easier for him just to delete a bunch of posts instead of going through each one individually.

Sorry, but you did post from a dubious blog. For pages and pages. You can’t write the deletions off as the moderator being lazy.

Which “dubious blog”? I posted from several different sources about several different topics.

Give it up, nobody cares. The moderator judged your blog posts and deleted them. Live with it. Bye.

That’s what I thought. You made up this “dubious blog” claim because you didn’t like the content.

I posted from several different sources about several different, related topics. None were from “dubious blogs”.

None of my sources were any more dubious than Wikipedia, which gets aggressively copy & pasted on this forum. Funny how you never complain about those posts.

You can fill three more pages whining about the moderator deleting your precious blog posts. Or you can move on and accept the verdict of multiple posters and the moderator.