Why do Atheists care? Here is one scary reason:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:As a descendant of two Mayflower passengers, I say keep your religion out of my government and stop trying to force your religion on me.

As another Mayflower descendant and Adams descendant, I say religion has much good to contribute. Not the ultra conservative religion, though.

As a descendant of the Mayflower passenger believed to have written the Mayflower Compact, I just refer all to that compact.

Which has zero relevance to the US today.

We aren’t a Christian nation.

No religion in government.

Don’t force your religion on others.

We were in the beginning perhaps, with the Massachusetts Bay Colony - but not now. We're a secular nation now. But the religious people keep pushing to make inroads on the separation between church and state, and with some of the recent Supreme Court decisions, they're succeeding. I'm not even sure anymore where the definitive line between church and state is anymore.

That was a colony, not a nation. The colonies of Maryland and Pennsylvania had founding documents which were very different with regard to religion.

Such as? We know Roger Williams broke off from Masachussets to form Rhode Island because he wanted separation of church and state - but he thought the state was encroaching too much on religion, not the other way around.

I am not Christian. But this is why we should be able to find common ground. I have zero interest in living in a Christian state. But I would imagine that if you were Christian, you would have zero interest in the state telling you what your religion should be.

This is a good post. The US government should never establish a state religion, that is the beauty of the US. We can worship any way we want, or not worship any way we want. That’s a simple way to live and a free way to live.

I don’t want any American being told they have to worship a God they don’t believe in. It’s not how America functions. We are free.

As a Christian, I deserve the same freedom to worship as I please. No one can tell me how to worship. My rights to worship and believe in God are as protected as another American’s right to not worship.

It’s really not hard. I marvel at how hard some people make it.

well you are really naive if not disingenuous. It took a recent Supreme Court decision to decide a football coach at a public high school could pray in the end zone after a game. I assume that's covered under your definition of "freedom to worship as [you] please." Where the line is drawn now is not clear at all. The religious people keep pushing and it literally takes a federal court decision to decide to your freedom is.

My opinion is pray if you want, don’t pray if you want. I don’t know why the coach praying as he wants is wrong. If he didn’t want to pray, no one is making him.

Well a teacher couldn't do that in a classroom during the day in front of students. So that's a limitation on one's feedom to worship as they please. I assume you agree with that? but with this Supreme Court who knows?

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Plus he was leading a prayer, not just praying himself. But you knew that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a descendant of two Mayflower passengers, I say keep your religion out of my government and stop trying to force your religion on me.

As another Mayflower descendant and Adams descendant, I say religion has much good to contribute. Not the ultra conservative religion, though.

As a descendant of the Mayflower passenger believed to have written the Mayflower Compact, I just refer all to that compact.

Which has zero relevance to the US today.

We aren’t a Christian nation.

No religion in government.

Don’t force your religion on others.

We were in the beginning perhaps, with the Massachusetts Bay Colony - but not now. We're a secular nation now. But the religious people keep pushing to make inroads on the separation between church and state, and with some of the recent Supreme Court decisions, they're succeeding. I'm not even sure anymore where the definitive line between church and state is anymore.

That was a colony, not a nation. The colonies of Maryland and Pennsylvania had founding documents which were very different with regard to religion.

Such as? We know Roger Williams broke off from Masachussets to form Rhode Island because he wanted separation of church and state - but he thought the state was encroaching too much on religion, not the other way around.

I am not Christian. But this is why we should be able to find common ground. I have zero interest in living in a Christian state. But I would imagine that if you were Christian, you would have zero interest in the state telling you what your religion should be.

This is a good post. The US government should never establish a state religion, that is the beauty of the US. We can worship any way we want, or not worship any way we want. That’s a simple way to live and a free way to live.

I don’t want any American being told they have to worship a God they don’t believe in. It’s not how America functions. We are free.

As a Christian, I deserve the same freedom to worship as I please. No one can tell me how to worship. My rights to worship and believe in God are as protected as another American’s right to not worship.

It’s really not hard. I marvel at how hard some people make it.

well you are really naive if not disingenuous. It took a recent Supreme Court decision to decide a football coach at a public high school could pray in the end zone after a game. I assume that's covered under your definition of "freedom to worship as [you] please." Where the line is drawn now is not clear at all. The religious people keep pushing and it literally takes a federal court decision to decide to your freedom is.

My opinion is pray if you want, don’t pray if you want. I don’t know why the coach praying as he wants is wrong. If he didn’t want to pray, no one is making him.

Well a teacher couldn't do that in a classroom during the day in front of students. So that's a limitation on one's feedom to worship as they please. I assume you agree with that? but with this Supreme Court who knows?

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Plus he was leading a prayer, not just praying himself. But you knew that.

PP may not have known that because the majority opinion lied about the basic facts of the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a descendant of two Mayflower passengers, I say keep your religion out of my government and stop trying to force your religion on me.

As another Mayflower descendant and Adams descendant, I say religion has much good to contribute. Not the ultra conservative religion, though.

Religions can contribute towards good in various ways in different communities.

No religion belongs in the government though.

And don’t force your religion on others.

But if can't force my religion on others, then that's a violation of my religious freedom. Basically if my god tells me to do it, i have a right to do it. That's why the Supreme Court said the football coach has a constitutional right to pray with his team in the middle of a high school football game. 😇

Yes, that is how the biased religious extremists on the SCOTUS would rule.

My god tells me to beat the s out of coaches who force their kids to pray at games. Religious freedom, ya’ll!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is terrifying and a big reason we care:

Most Republicans Support Declaring the United States a Christian Nation

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/09/21/most-republicans-support-declaring-the-united-states-a-christian-nation-00057736

From the article

Christian nationalism, a belief that the United States was founded as a white, Christian nation and that there is no separation between church and state, is gaining steam on the right.

Most Republicans Say Christian Nationalism Is Unconstitutional — But Still Support It

Hopefully that will explain fully to the "why do you care?" crowd.

It doesn't have to be "declared," OP. Anyone with any sense of history (you, perhaps?) knows that America was founded as on Judeo-Christian principles.

No, this is untrue. Evidence was presented earlier.

Please name those values and explain how they are uniquely judeo christian? No one will answer that, because you can't. But I would love you to try.

You're kidding, right? Did you pass 8th grade history?

America was founded on the idea that individual rights come from God and not the state. That concept had never before been expressed, let alone implemented in a form of government. This is inherently the concept of Judeo/ Christian values - that we each, as individuals, are children of God and that we are created by Him.

Thank you.

Is that what they teach at the “Christian” schools?

No. Inalienable does not mean rights from any gods. LOL.

The US isn’t a Christian nation. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is terrifying and a big reason we care:

Most Republicans Support Declaring the United States a Christian Nation

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/09/21/most-republicans-support-declaring-the-united-states-a-christian-nation-00057736

From the article

Christian nationalism, a belief that the United States was founded as a white, Christian nation and that there is no separation between church and state, is gaining steam on the right.

Most Republicans Say Christian Nationalism Is Unconstitutional — But Still Support It

Hopefully that will explain fully to the "why do you care?" crowd.

It doesn't have to be "declared," OP. Anyone with any sense of history (you, perhaps?) knows that America was founded as on Judeo-Christian principles.

No, this is untrue. Evidence was presented earlier.

Please name those values and explain how they are uniquely judeo christian? No one will answer that, because you can't. But I would love you to try.

You're kidding, right? Did you pass 8th grade history?

America was founded on the idea that individual rights come from God and not the state. That concept had never before been expressed, let alone implemented in a form of government. This is inherently the concept of Judeo/ Christian values - that we each, as individuals, are children of God and that we are created by Him.

Thank you.

Is that what they teach at the “Christian” schools?

No. Inalienable does not mean rights from any gods. LOL.

The US isn’t a Christian nation. Period.

But it says it right in the Declaration of Independence! "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by Go-...." ummm... oops no it doesn't.

PS assuming your god is the creator is called "presuppositionalism" and it is the most common fallacy of all religion apologetics. The Creator could be anything including a naturalistic process. The DOI doesn't say which and neither can you or I. Mr. Jefferson (a deist) and the other smart people who wrote it understood they did not know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is terrifying and a big reason we care:

Most Republicans Support Declaring the United States a Christian Nation

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/09/21/most-republicans-support-declaring-the-united-states-a-christian-nation-00057736

From the article

Christian nationalism, a belief that the United States was founded as a white, Christian nation and that there is no separation between church and state, is gaining steam on the right.

Most Republicans Say Christian Nationalism Is Unconstitutional — But Still Support It

Hopefully that will explain fully to the "why do you care?" crowd.

It doesn't have to be "declared," OP. Anyone with any sense of history (you, perhaps?) knows that America was founded as on Judeo-Christian principles.

No, this is untrue. Evidence was presented earlier.

Please name those values and explain how they are uniquely judeo christian? No one will answer that, because you can't. But I would love you to try.

You're kidding, right? Did you pass 8th grade history?

America was founded on the idea that individual rights come from God and not the state. That concept had never before been expressed, let alone implemented in a form of government. This is inherently the concept of Judeo/ Christian values - that we each, as individuals, are children of God and that we are created by Him.

Thank you.

Is that what they teach at the “Christian” schools?

No. Inalienable does not mean rights from any gods. LOL.

The US isn’t a Christian nation. Period.

But it says it right in the Declaration of Independence! "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by Go-...." ummm... oops no it doesn't.

PS assuming your god is the creator is called "presuppositionalism" and it is the most common fallacy of all religion apologetics. The Creator could be anything including a naturalistic process. The DOI doesn't say which and neither can you or I. Mr. Jefferson (a deist) and the other smart people who wrote it understood they did not know.

DP. Actually presuppositionalism is something completely different. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apologetics

The assumption that God is the creator is actually a belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is terrifying and a big reason we care:

Most Republicans Support Declaring the United States a Christian Nation

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/09/21/most-republicans-support-declaring-the-united-states-a-christian-nation-00057736

From the article

Christian nationalism, a belief that the United States was founded as a white, Christian nation and that there is no separation between church and state, is gaining steam on the right.

Most Republicans Say Christian Nationalism Is Unconstitutional — But Still Support It

Hopefully that will explain fully to the "why do you care?" crowd.

It doesn't have to be "declared," OP. Anyone with any sense of history (you, perhaps?) knows that America was founded as on Judeo-Christian principles.

No, this is untrue. Evidence was presented earlier.

Please name those values and explain how they are uniquely judeo christian? No one will answer that, because you can't. But I would love you to try.

You're kidding, right? Did you pass 8th grade history?

America was founded on the idea that individual rights come from God and not the state. That concept had never before been expressed, let alone implemented in a form of government. This is inherently the concept of Judeo/ Christian values - that we each, as individuals, are children of God and that we are created by Him.

Thank you.

Is that what they teach at the “Christian” schools?

No. Inalienable does not mean rights from any gods. LOL.

The US isn’t a Christian nation. Period.

But it says it right in the Declaration of Independence! "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by Go-...." ummm... oops no it doesn't.

PS assuming your god is the creator is called "presuppositionalism" and it is the most common fallacy of all religion apologetics. The Creator could be anything including a naturalistic process. The DOI doesn't say which and neither can you or I. Mr. Jefferson (a deist) and the other smart people who wrote it understood they did not know.

DP. Actually presuppositionalism is something completely different. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apologetics

The assumption that God is the creator is actually a belief.

Sorry to disagree. They are not mutually exclusive. Presuppositionalists assume that god - their god - is the foundation of everything. Yes that means you can't have the laws of logic without him, but it also includes assuming your god is the creator of everything - including the laws of logic.

So assuming your god is what is referred to by "The Creator" in the DOI is exactly presuppositionalism, in my view, and equally fallacious.

[Anonymous]

Another analysis:

https://newrepublic.com/article/167972/american-christianity-path-toward-tool-theocratic-authoritarianism

[Anonymous]

^ This is very interesting because if you look at the thread just below on missionaries in Brazil you can see how powerful the evangelicals are there. The pastor in that video went so far as to say of Brazil: "the government needs the Church more than the Church needs the government." It's scary to think that could happen here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another analysis:

https://newrepublic.com/article/167972/american-christianity-path-toward-tool-theocratic-authoritarianism

“ Conservative Christians have a deep sense of victimhood and fear about a secular America and are willing to end democracy to prevent it. As David Frum noted, “If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.”

It has not gone unnoticed that Republicans are increasingly claiming the mantle of being Christian Nationalists. A recent poll found that although 57 percent of Republicans recognize that declaring the U.S. a “Christian nation” is unconstitutional, over 60 percent would support it. To achieve enforcement of an unpopular set of religious beliefs amid a population that is increasingly ambivalent or hostile to the dominant (conservative) strain of religion in the U.S., the GOP is already instituting increasingly undemocratic processes, insurrections, and efforts to overturn legitimate elections and is installing religious zealots in positions of power”

Exactly. It has not gone unnoticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

Republican Christians do absolutely NOTHING to push back against this. Spare me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

Republican Christians do absolutely NOTHING to push back against this. Spare me.

The above is very believable. There may be Republican Christians who are in opposition to the current Republican stance, but most stay quiet about it. David Gerson in the Post is a notable exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

Republican Christians do absolutely NOTHING to push back against this. Spare me.

Someone said no Christians oppose this. The list you’re getting huffy about said many Christians do oppose this. Spare us your deliberate uncomprehension.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

Republican Christians do absolutely NOTHING to push back against this. Spare me.

The above is very believable. There may be Republican Christians who are in opposition to the current Republican stance, but most stay quiet about it. David Gerson in the Post is a notable exception.

Yup. If there are any R "Christians" who oppose it they are very quiet.