Why do Atheists care? Here is one scary reason:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

That's true. And Christians don't believe in any supernatural phenomena other than their own. But they do believe in their own, and that is a political problem, and a problem for the rest of us who do not believe in it.

I just think we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao agree.

Seriously, though, hyperbole like your OP just makes the people you’re concerned about harden their positions. I say this as someone who’s appalled by Trump’s Supreme Court nominees and the end of Roe v. Wade. Instead give a thought to psychology and ease up on the hyperbole.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao? Who is dealing in hyperbole and propaganda now?

Check my bolded parts in the statement "we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs."

I believe people are capable of this type of growth, and the fact that non-belief is the fastest growing segment by a multiple supports that belief. They just need to know it is OK with society for them to follow the logic to that position.

All adults have given up most, if not all, of their supernatural beliefs. They no longer believe in fairies or elves or Santa Claus. Some still believe in God, in part because they don't think of him the same way they think of fairies and Santa, whom they stopped believing in as children. Plus God promises something fairies don't -- everlasting life. The catch is, you don't know whether of not it's real until after you're dead.

[Anonymous]

All adults have given up most, if not all, of their supernatural beliefs. They no longer believe in fairies or elves or Santa Claus.

Yes, and with good reason. The same reason that will hopefully lead them to giving up all supernatural beliefs.

Some still believe in God, in part because they don't think of him the same way they think of fairies and Santa, whom they stopped believing in as children.

This is where logical discussion, evaluation, and application of skepticism can change that difference, which I believe is culturally enforced.

Plus God promises something fairies don't -- everlasting life. The catch is, you don't know whether of not it's real until after you're dead.

That's not really a catch, Pascal's wager is a very flawed proposition. There's very little reason to believe there is anything supernatural, let alone a personal and benevolent deity. Once you release the need to apply things about the universe we don't understand or know to the supernatural it becomes much easier to release belief in it.

[Anonymous]

None of the people you describe are religious. They're extremists who have no virtuous qualities. They exist within every denomination. Hypocrites sit in the first pew.

People who identified as Catholic declined from 81% in 1986 to 47% in 2020, while the number of people who identified as not religious rose from 16% to 40%. The traditionalists are the older generation who are being replaced by younger generations. However, the older generation has declined, as well, and not because they died. There's a Pew research study. I'm laughing at anyone who thinks Trump is religious. Holding a bible for a photo op doesn't count. His cronies need their oxygen cut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of the people you describe are religious. They're extremists who have no virtuous qualities. They exist within every denomination. Hypocrites sit in the first pew.

People who identified as Catholic declined from 81% in 1986 to 47% in 2020, while the number of people who identified as not religious rose from 16% to 40%. The traditionalists are the older generation who are being replaced by younger generations. However, the older generation has declined, as well, and not because they died. There's a Pew research study. I'm laughing at anyone who thinks Trump is religious. Holding a bible for a photo op doesn't count. His cronies need their oxygen cut off.

81% of what? No way Catholics were 81% of the population in 1986.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

That's true. And Christians don't believe in any supernatural phenomena other than their own. But they do believe in their own, and that is a political problem, and a problem for the rest of us who do not believe in it.

I just think we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao agree.

Seriously, though, hyperbole like your OP just makes the people you’re concerned about harden their positions. I say this as someone who’s appalled by Trump’s Supreme Court nominees and the end of Roe v. Wade. Instead give a thought to psychology and ease up on the hyperbole.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao? Who is dealing in hyperbole and propaganda now?

Check my bolded parts in the statement "we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs."

I believe people are capable of this type of growth, and the fact that non-belief is the fastest growing segment by a multiple supports that belief. They just need to know it is OK with society for them to follow the logic to that position.

So the part about not pushing the Trumpies further into their shells just washed over you.

Capitulation will only embolden and will have the opposite effect. I support non-aggressive, calm, factual, logical discussion on these topics, and hopefully people will come to the realization that their beliefs are illogical and de-emphasize them or release them altogether.

We'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs

Impossible. Their brains were hardwired to believe since childhood. Also, there is the theory that folks have a religious gene. The best we can hope for is what Pew studies point to and that’s a slow decline of Christianity in America based on, essentially, apathy toward organized religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.

That's true. And Christians don't believe in any supernatural phenomena other than their own. But they do believe in their own, and that is a political problem, and a problem for the rest of us who do not believe in it.

I just think we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao agree.

Seriously, though, hyperbole like your OP just makes the people you’re concerned about harden their positions. I say this as someone who’s appalled by Trump’s Supreme Court nominees and the end of Roe v. Wade. Instead give a thought to psychology and ease up on the hyperbole.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao? Who is dealing in hyperbole and propaganda now?

Check my bolded parts in the statement "we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs."

I believe people are capable of this type of growth, and the fact that non-belief is the fastest growing segment by a multiple supports that belief. They just need to know it is OK with society for them to follow the logic to that position.

So the part about not pushing the Trumpies further into their shells just washed over you.

Capitulation will only embolden and will have the opposite effect. I support non-aggressive, calm, factual, logical discussion on these topics, and hopefully people will come to the realization that their beliefs are illogical and de-emphasize them or release them altogether.

We'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs

Impossible. Their brains were hardwired to believe since childhood. Also, there is the theory that folks have a religious gene. The best we can hope for is what Pew studies point to and that’s a slow decline of Christianity in America based on, essentially, apathy toward organized religion.

I am not suggesting it will definitely happen, just that we'll have a better country if it does.

It wouldn't be a universal change over a single generation. It will take time, but the current level of erosion of belief can accelerate.

[Anonymous]

Don’t say “it will never happen here”. Iran was a secular, modern country in the 70s. That was only a few years ago. Now, they kill women for allowing their hair to show. Women have no rights. The LGTBQ community lives in constant fear. Laws are based on ONE religion. It can happen. Evangelicals have written plans to make it happen. Stacking the courts is a really good start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the people you describe are religious. They're extremists who have no virtuous qualities. They exist within every denomination. Hypocrites sit in the first pew.

People who identified as Catholic declined from 81% in 1986 to 47% in 2020, while the number of people who identified as not religious rose from 16% to 40%. The traditionalists are the older generation who are being replaced by younger generations. However, the older generation has declined, as well, and not because they died. There's a Pew research study. I'm laughing at anyone who thinks Trump is religious. Holding a bible for a photo op doesn't count. His cronies need their oxygen cut off.

81% of what? No way Catholics were 81% of the population in 1986.

+1

Maybe it's 81% of people who attend mass identify as Catholic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t say “it will never happen here”. Iran was a secular, modern country in the 70s. That was only a few years ago. Now, they kill women for allowing their hair to show. Women have no rights. The LGTBQ community lives in constant fear. Laws are based on ONE religion. It can happen. Evangelicals have written plans to make it happen. Stacking the courts is a really good start.

Exactly. My DH (former R Catholic) was 100% convinced that RvW was safe.

And these people will go to any length - lie, cheat, or steal - to get their Christian government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether it actually happens or not is not the concern. The concern is that people are out there actively wanting it, and these people have influence in many many places, at the state, local and federal levels. From school boards to the supreme court. We’ve seen this at all those levels recently and it is terrifying and religion is the core part of the problem.

And before anybody explodes, I’m not saying all religious people are this way. But religion itself is a problem. It’s the 21st-century and we hang onto these beliefs at our own peril.

That kind of black-and-white thinking is equally part of the problem. […]

I consider myself religious, though I don’t attend church. I have never voted for a Republican in my life, I believe in evolution, I’m slowly converting my yard to native plants for carbon sequestration, believe in the separation of church and state, prize the rule of law and I am rabidly feminist and pro choice. Painting all religions as equally bad is weak brained and is unlikely to win you any points on the internet or where it matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the people you describe are religious. They're extremists who have no virtuous qualities. They exist within every denomination. Hypocrites sit in the first pew.

People who identified as Catholic declined from 81% in 1986 to 47% in 2020, while the number of people who identified as not religious rose from 16% to 40%. The traditionalists are the older generation who are being replaced by younger generations. However, the older generation has declined, as well, and not because they died. There's a Pew research study. I'm laughing at anyone who thinks Trump is religious. Holding a bible for a photo op doesn't count. His cronies need their oxygen cut off.

81% of what?No way Catholics were 81% of the population in 1986.

73.7% in 2016. So 81% in 1986 seems accurate. Pew study isn’t opening for me. The numbers in context are somewhat ambiguous, but below specifically states population. Could it be a carved out percentage of only those who identify as religious?
“Christianity, the largest religion in the United States, was 73.7% of the total population in 2016. The 2014 Religious Landscape Study finds a large majority (87.6%) of those who were raised as Christians in the United States still identify as such, while the rest who no longer identify as Christians mostly identify as religiously unaffiliated. In 2019, 65% of American adults described themselves as Christians. In 2020, 47% of Americans said that they belonged to a church, down from 70% in 1999.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity_in_the_Western_world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the people you describe are religious. They're extremists who have no virtuous qualities. They exist within every denomination. Hypocrites sit in the first pew.

People who identified as Catholic declined from 81% in 1986 to 47% in 2020, while the number of people who identified as not religious rose from 16% to 40%. The traditionalists are the older generation who are being replaced by younger generations. However, the older generation has declined, as well, and not because they died. There's a Pew research study. I'm laughing at anyone who thinks Trump is religious. Holding a bible for a photo op doesn't count. His cronies need their oxygen cut off.

81% of what?No way Catholics were 81% of the population in 1986.

73.7% in 2016. So 81% in 1986 seems accurate. Pew study isn’t opening for me. The numbers in context are somewhat ambiguous, but below specifically states population. Could it be a carved out percentage of only those who identify as religious?
“Christianity, the largest religion in the United States, was 73.7% of the total population in 2016. The 2014 Religious Landscape Study finds a large majority (87.6%) of those who were raised as Christians in the United States still identify as such, while the rest who no longer identify as Christians mostly identify as religiously unaffiliated. In 2019, 65% of American adults described themselves as Christians. In 2020, 47% of Americans said that they belonged to a church, down from 70% in 1999.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity_in_the_Western_world

These numbers still don’t make sense, although at least you’ve moved off “Catholics are 81% of the population.” I don’t have the energy to help you fix this though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether it actually happens or not is not the concern. The concern is that people are out there actively wanting it, and these people have influence in many many places, at the state, local and federal levels. From school boards to the supreme court. We’ve seen this at all those levels recently and it is terrifying and religion is the core part of the problem.

And before anybody explodes, I’m not saying all religious people are this way. But religion itself is a problem. It’s the 21st-century and we hang onto these beliefs at our own peril.

That kind of black-and-white thinking is equally part of the problem. […]

I consider myself religious, though I don’t attend church. I have never voted for a Republican in my life, I believe in evolution, I’m slowly converting my yard to native plants for carbon sequestration, believe in the separation of church and state, prize the rule of law and I am rabidly feminist and pro choice. Painting all religions as equally bad is weak brained and is unlikely to win you any points on the internet or where it matters.

Are you me? Down to the native plants and rabid feminism? I agree, painting all religions as equally horrible—or any single religion as horrible—just makes the person arguing this look ignorant and bigoted. That line of debate never wins arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t say “it will never happen here”. Iran was a secular, modern country in the 70s. That was only a few years ago. Now, they kill women for allowing their hair to show. Women have no rights. The LGTBQ community lives in constant fear. Laws are based on ONE religion. It can happen. Evangelicals have written plans to make it happen. Stacking the courts is a really good start.

Or 45 but who’s counting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That will never happen.

In certain segments of society, it is already happening/happened.