My kid isn't getting in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just take him to College Park and find some fun stuff there. Getting too attached to any school is a bad idea. He has a great option available he's going to be fine.

You just have to work with ehat you've got and what he's got is nit shabby at all.

Also, I have a friend from high school who is a super kick ass orthopedic surgeon. Her undergrad? Florida State. He's going to be fine, but he needs to be happy with the great option he has.

Florida State is no longer easy to get in. It’s a very good institution

Florida State is a great college.

So's UMD though. This kid is 100% going to be fine.

Heck, my brother went to Eastern Michigan, which is definitely not a high ranked school. And he's also doing just finem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The math is pretty brutal, OP. Take the top 20 SLACs and the top 20 national universities -- back of the envelope guess, collectively these schools enroll about 40,000 kids each year. Assume the average yield rate for these top schools is 50%, and those schools are admitting 80,000 kids to fill their 40,000 places.

The DC region is chock full of affluent, educated families with high-performing kids. Each year, there are over a thousand DC area seniors with excellent grades and test scores applying to these top schools.

Almost all of them have stats that match those of kids who are accepted at these schools, but most of them will not get in. These schools also have many thousands of similar kids applying from NY, CA, and so on, and they try to have geographic diversity, school type diversity, gender balance, racial diversity, diversity of talent and interests and, in many cases, they admit many recruited athletes before the regular admissions season even begins for most kids.

The math is just brutal. I tell my kids that at any school with an acceptance rate below 25%, they're basically buying lottery tickets, and even the kids with perfect GPAs, perfect test scores, impressive ECs, strong essays and strong recommendations are also buying lottery tickets. A small percentage will get lucky. Most won't. But it really is pretty arbitrary.

Try to remind your kid of this. They didn't get the winning lottery number, but it's not a comment on their talent or worth as humans. It's just: too many great kids, too few seats.

This is the correct calculation.

There are about 3.65M HS graduates per year. Let’s expand that a little to T30. Say you are in the top 3-4% of your HS (maybe a little lower at a really strong public). That’s still 100K students.

[Anonymous]

I am constantly amazed by all of the high stats on this board, which might support the privileged, prepped and supported argument. How are all of these kids scoring so high? In my day, at a competitive, privileged school, anything over 1400 seemed excellent, but here it’s almost scoffed at? Has the test changed that much? How do all of your kids have nearly perfect scores? Clearly I’m only starting the process with my own DC but they are already talking about not submitting because they won’t break 1400 and otherwise have all As. It just seems really broken to me. High school me would be getting rejected by every single school I applied to years ago. It really is nuts. With that said, it’s good to know there are many great schools out there, many paths to achieve the same goal/outcome. The kids are going to be alright.

I think I know why. It’s the accelerated classes and smart cohort in this area. The kids push each other to be smarter. DD goes to school in the South. Students that she knows from that unnamed state struggle more than she does in math and science. They are smart kids and DD does not love math and science. She just had to push herself more and has a better foundation, that’s all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am constantly amazed by all of the high stats on this board, which might support the privileged, prepped and supported argument. How are all of these kids scoring so high? In my day, at a competitive, privileged school, anything over 1400 seemed excellent, but here it’s almost scoffed at? Has the test changed that much? How do all of your kids have nearly perfect scores? Clearly I’m only starting the process with my own DC but they are already talking about not submitting because they won’t break 1400 and otherwise have all As. It just seems really broken to me. High school me would be getting rejected by every single school I applied to years ago. It really is nuts. With that said, it’s good to know there are many great schools out there, many paths to achieve the same goal/outcome. The kids are going to be alright.

I think I know why. It’s the accelerated classes and smart cohort in this area. The kids push each other to be smarter. DD goes to school in the South. Students that she knows from that unnamed state struggle more than she does in math and science. They are smart kids and DD does not love math and science. She just had to push herself more and has a better foundation, that’s all.

The College Board changed the distribution of scores. A 2100 on the old SAT should be a 1400 on the new one, right? Wrong. It’s a 1470 now. If you shift a normal distribution, the greatest percentage changes in any outcome in the new distribution are in the tails. There are just way more kids running around with high scores than there were 10 years ago, because they changed the test!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am constantly amazed by all of the high stats on this board, which might support the privileged, prepped and supported argument. How are all of these kids scoring so high? In my day, at a competitive, privileged school, anything over 1400 seemed excellent, but here it’s almost scoffed at? Has the test changed that much? How do all of your kids have nearly perfect scores? Clearly I’m only starting the process with my own DC but they are already talking about not submitting because they won’t break 1400 and otherwise have all As. It just seems really broken to me. High school me would be getting rejected by every single school I applied to years ago. It really is nuts. With that said, it’s good to know there are many great schools out there, many paths to achieve the same goal/outcome. The kids are going to be alright.

A 1400 in the 80's or 90's is not the same as a 1400 today. Somewhere, there is a graph that shows equivalence, but suffice it to say, just like there is grade inflation, so too there is SAT score inflation.

[Anonymous]

Check to see what schools are still accepting applications and apply if you feel like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The math is pretty brutal, OP. Take the top 20 SLACs and the top 20 national universities -- back of the envelope guess, collectively these schools enroll about 40,000 kids each year. Assume the average yield rate for these top schools is 50%, and those schools are admitting 80,000 kids to fill their 40,000 places.

The DC region is chock full of affluent, educated families with high-performing kids. Each year, there are over a thousand DC area seniors with excellent grades and test scores applying to these top schools.

Almost all of them have stats that match those of kids who are accepted at these schools, but most of them will not get in. These schools also have many thousands of similar kids applying from NY, CA, and so on, and they try to have geographic diversity, school type diversity, gender balance, racial diversity, diversity of talent and interests and, in many cases, they admit many recruited athletes before the regular admissions season even begins for most kids.

The math is just brutal. I tell my kids that at any school with an acceptance rate below 25%, they're basically buying lottery tickets, and even the kids with perfect GPAs, perfect test scores, impressive ECs, strong essays and strong recommendations are also buying lottery tickets. A small percentage will get lucky. Most won't. But it really is pretty arbitrary.

Try to remind your kid of this. They didn't get the winning lottery number, but it's not a comment on their talent or worth as humans. It's just: too many great kids, too few seats.

This is the correct calculation.

There are about 3.65M HS graduates per year. Let’s expand that a little to T30. Say you are in the top 3-4% of your HS (maybe a little lower at a really strong public). That’s still 100K students.

Now add the international applicants. the "T30" or "T50" have basically not added any seats in the last 30 years. So where you had say 100,000 applicants for those 40,000 places in the 1970's, you now have hundreds of thousands today. It's all math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am constantly amazed by all of the high stats on this board, which might support the privileged, prepped and supported argument. How are all of these kids scoring so high? In my day, at a competitive, privileged school, anything over 1400 seemed excellent, but here it’s almost scoffed at? Has the test changed that much? How do all of your kids have nearly perfect scores? Clearly I’m only starting the process with my own DC but they are already talking about not submitting because they won’t break 1400 and otherwise have all As. It just seems really broken to me. High school me would be getting rejected by every single school I applied to years ago. It really is nuts. With that said, it’s good to know there are many great schools out there, many paths to achieve the same goal/outcome. The kids are going to be alright.

I think I know why. It’s the accelerated classes and smart cohort in this area. The kids push each other to be smarter. DD goes to school in the South. Students that she knows from that unnamed state struggle more than she does in math and science. They are smart kids and DD does not love math and science. She just had to push herself more and has a better foundation, that’s all.

The College Board changed the distribution of scores. A 2100 on the old SAT should be a 1400 on the new one, right? Wrong. It’s a 1470 now. If you shift a normal distribution, the greatest percentage changes in any outcome in the new distribution are in the tails. There are just way more kids running around with high scores than there were 10 years ago, because they changed the test!

Any changes that occur in the distribution of scores can't change the fact that there's exactly 1% of students in each percentile. Percentiles are what colleges are interested in. The reason it's so much more difficult to gain admission to any given college today is the huge increase in the number of strong applicants.

[Anonymous]

True..the 90ith percentile is quite high but there are many thousands of students in the 94th and 97th and 99th percentiles.

Students must make peace with the competition. Even the superstar valedictorian that heads off to MIT has this feeling when faced with the smarter, stronger, faster champs that are all heading to MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am constantly amazed by all of the high stats on this board, which might support the privileged, prepped and supported argument. How are all of these kids scoring so high? In my day, at a competitive, privileged school, anything over 1400 seemed excellent, but here it’s almost scoffed at? Has the test changed that much? How do all of your kids have nearly perfect scores? Clearly I’m only starting the process with my own DC but they are already talking about not submitting because they won’t break 1400 and otherwise have all As. It just seems really broken to me. High school me would be getting rejected by every single school I applied to years ago. It really is nuts. With that said, it’s good to know there are many great schools out there, many paths to achieve the same goal/outcome. The kids are going to be alright.

I think I know why. It’s the accelerated classes and smart cohort in this area. The kids push each other to be smarter. DD goes to school in the South. Students that she knows from that unnamed state struggle more than she does in math and science. They are smart kids and DD does not love math and science. She just had to push herself more and has a better foundation, that’s all.

The College Board changed the distribution of scores. A 2100 on the old SAT should be a 1400 on the new one, right? Wrong. It’s a 1470 now. If you shift a normal distribution, the greatest percentage changes in any outcome in the new distribution are in the tails. There are just way more kids running around with high scores than there were 10 years ago, because they changed the test!

Any changes that occur in the distribution of scores can't change the fact that there's exactly 1% of students in each percentile. Percentiles are what colleges are interested in. The reason it's so much more difficult to gain admission to any given college today is the huge increase in the number of strong applicants.

Interesting ... I was a National Merit Scholar in 1972 with a 1420 which was a 98th percentile (I also took the test with a horrible case of strep and fever on a bitterly cold day, and my GRE score was 99th percentile). Looking it up, my score is now a 96th percentile. Yet average SAT scores have gone down according to online sources--which could be kids taking the SAT and pursuing college now who did not in the past, including disadvantaged kids (I was blue collar in a blue collar town fwiw). But also increases at the top tail? Increased academic inequality?

[Anonymous]

I am sorry, OP. I think we've seen each other on a few other threads. Mine did get into Honors, but has had rejections elsewhere. She is a 99%er. It's just a rough year. Her only admits have been safeties, albeit with scholarship interest, so there's that. Hopefully both our kids will get some good news in RD.

In the meantime, you can remind him how competitive Maryland was this year and congratulate him on Scholars. It is no small feat in this climate. But, I hope he'll have choices. I agree that that's an important part of the process. Your kid sounds fantastic. He will do great things wherever he goes. Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in a similar situation, though mine applied to three safeties. One of them offered a TON of money in grants and scholarships, so at least that made her feel special and wanted. UMD outranks that school, but she has another option. We are still waiting to hear from a bunch of privates, but I don't have much hope-- though I am hoping for a miracle.

She has top stats, extracurriculars, leadership, service. Maybe her essays suck? I just don't know. She didn't publish any research, win any national awards, found a non-profit or anything else on that level. She interviews well. She is white and lives in an upper socio-economic area with lets of competitive kids applying from her school. That probably has something to do with it.

Sounds like mine. She does have national awards and nmsf and sports captain and excellent arts ecs. She will get a bunch of money from 3 safeties, but not sure how much yet. Flat out rejected from scea, Oxbridge and another top school. Did see some flaws in her early apps, so hoping for better outcomes in rd.

Whatever the rd outcome, being wanted somewhere now feels good. Getting into umd and hearing from other safeties about scholarship recommendations (not officially in at them, but it's clear from her progress with scholarships she will be) has lifted a dark cloud. Having options really helped, even though they were safeties. She really likes all the schools she applied to.

I think, even if op's kid gets more acceptances in rd, which he likely will, it's hard right now, when it is largely rejection in his world. Especially as kids see friends updating profiles with "Xxx Uni class of 2026."

OP, just keep supporting and affirming him. Hopefully, better things will come!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in a similar situation, though mine applied to three safeties. One of them offered a TON of money in grants and scholarships, so at least that made her feel special and wanted. UMD outranks that school, but she has another option. We are still waiting to hear from a bunch of privates, but I don't have much hope-- though I am hoping for a miracle.

She has top stats, extracurriculars, leadership, service. Maybe her essays suck? I just don't know. She didn't publish any research, win any national awards, found a non-profit or anything else on that level. She interviews well. She is white and lives in an upper socio-economic area with lets of competitive kids applying from her school. That probably has something to do with it.

Sounds like mine. She does have national awards and nmsf and sports captain and excellent arts ecs. She will get a bunch of money from 3 safeties, but not sure how much yet. Flat out rejected from scea, Oxbridge and another top school. Did see some flaws in her early apps, so hoping for better outcomes in rd.

Whatever the rd outcome, being wanted somewhere now feels good. Getting into umd and hearing from other safeties about scholarship recommendations (not officially in at them, but it's clear from her progress with scholarships she will be) has lifted a dark cloud. Having options really helped, even though they were safeties. She really likes all the schools she applied to.

I think, even if op's kid gets more acceptances in rd, which he likely will, it's hard right now, when it is largely rejection in his world. Especially as kids see friends updating profiles with "Xxx Uni class of 2026."

OP, just keep supporting and affirming him. Hopefully, better things will come!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am constantly amazed by all of the high stats on this board, which might support the privileged, prepped and supported argument. How are all of these kids scoring so high? In my day, at a competitive, privileged school, anything over 1400 seemed excellent, but here it’s almost scoffed at? Has the test changed that much? How do all of your kids have nearly perfect scores? Clearly I’m only starting the process with my own DC but they are already talking about not submitting because they won’t break 1400 and otherwise have all As. It just seems really broken to me. High school me would be getting rejected by every single school I applied to years ago. It really is nuts. With that said, it’s good to know there are many great schools out there, many paths to achieve the same goal/outcome. The kids are going to be alright.

I think I know why. It’s the accelerated classes and smart cohort in this area. The kids push each other to be smarter. DD goes to school in the South. Students that she knows from that unnamed state struggle more than she does in math and science. They are smart kids and DD does not love math and science. She just had to push herself more and has a better foundation, that’s all.

The College Board changed the distribution of scores. A 2100 on the old SAT should be a 1400 on the new one, right? Wrong. It’s a 1470 now. If you shift a normal distribution, the greatest percentage changes in any outcome in the new distribution are in the tails. There are just way more kids running around with high scores than there were 10 years ago, because they changed the test!

Any changes that occur in the distribution of scores can't change the fact that there's exactly 1% of students in each percentile. Percentiles are what colleges are interested in. The reason it's so much more difficult to gain admission to any given college today is the huge increase in the number of strong applicants.

I buy that students are more prepared for college admissions than they were even ten years ago. I just think the compression of scores at the top weakens the SAT as a filter. Even if percentiles are still available, the compression of the distribution at the top of the normalized scale decreases the ability to draw distinctions between test-takers. There are more kids with scores in the ballpark of a "strong" SAT (1400-1600) than there used to be while there are not more seats at strong private research universities, SLACS, and top public universities. The SAT does meaningfully predict college success, but not so strictly that schools would ignore a kid with a 1450 and great grades/ECs over a 1500 with great grades/weaker ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in a similar situation, though mine applied to three safeties. One of them offered a TON of money in grants and scholarships, so at least that made her feel special and wanted. UMD outranks that school, but she has another option. We are still waiting to hear from a bunch of privates, but I don't have much hope-- though I am hoping for a miracle.

She has top stats, extracurriculars, leadership, service. Maybe her essays suck? I just don't know. She didn't publish any research, win any national awards, found a non-profit or anything else on that level. She interviews well. She is white and lives in an upper socio-economic area with lets of competitive kids applying from her school. That probably has something to do with it.

Sounds like mine. She does have national awards and nmsf and sports captain and excellent arts ecs. She will get a bunch of money from 3 safeties, but not sure how much yet. Flat out rejected from scea, Oxbridge and another top school. Did see some flaws in her early apps, so hoping for better outcomes in rd.

Whatever the rd outcome, being wanted somewhere now feels good. Getting into umd and hearing from other safeties about scholarship recommendations (not officially in at them, but it's clear from her progress with scholarships she will be) has lifted a dark cloud. Having options really helped, even though they were safeties. She really likes all the schools she applied to.

I think, even if op's kid gets more acceptances in rd, which he likely will, it's hard right now, when it is largely rejection in his world. Especially as kids see friends updating profiles with "Xxx Uni class of 2026."

OP, just keep supporting and affirming him. Hopefully, better things will come!

I think this whole early action, early decision, regular decision timeframe makes it so streesful on the students and families. I wish all the decisions came on the same day, and students were done with this, right there. I think this whole process is so inconsiderate.