UHC CEO Gunned Down in Midtown Manhattan

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At first I thought this guy must be acting on his own, especially given that he left his phone and cup. But now I think he's an assassin. Everything he left, he left on purpose. He looked directly at the camera in the cab on purpose. The only mistake he made was to flirt with that woman at the hostel. And he is clearly much smarter than the cops.

I think it’s multiple people to throw the cops off.

PP you responded to and I agree -- but I think the guy they are looking for is a professional. But agree he must have had help.

Maybe, but are there professional sicarios in the US? Most homicides are little gangsters spraying and praying. Also, he is absolutely horrible with a firearm and he obviously never tested the gun with that supressor/ammo combo before the shooting.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think people are watching too many movies.

Professionals don’t leave the backpack, don’t get caught on camera, etc.. with a pro, the guy would have just dropped out of nowhere

Idk. I thought that initially but with the revelation about the Monopoly money and the clearly deliberate camera shots, it is clear he is trying to be seen at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Their chance to get him was in the first couple of hours after the murder. He’s long gone. And the NYPD looks completely incompetent. They haven’t even figured out this guy’s name and they have a pretty clear picture and DNA.

They may know his name but are not showing their hand yet. I’m not sure they have his DNA. Maybe he planted the water bottle on purpose. Even if they have DNA, it’s irrelevant unless he’s in a database somewhere. If he is a foreigner, he wouldn’t be. Even as an American, if he has no prior criminal record, why would his DNA be in any system?

If he has some dumb relative that has done one of the DNA services (Ancestry, 23 and me..) they may find him. Note: people are so stupid for sending their DNA into these services

People are beyond stupid for sending their DNA to strangers. They are literally idiotic.

Why? I’m too dumb to understand.

[Anonymous]

His picture has been widely shown. Surely someone recognized him and has connected with the police?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At first I thought this guy must be acting on his own, especially given that he left his phone and cup. But now I think he's an assassin. Everything he left, he left on purpose. He looked directly at the camera in the cab on purpose. The only mistake he made was to flirt with that woman at the hostel. And he is clearly much smarter than the cops.

I think it’s multiple people to throw the cops off.

PP you responded to and I agree -- but I think the guy they are looking for is a professional. But agree he must have had help.

Maybe, but are there professional sicarios in the US? Most homicides are little gangsters spraying and praying. Also, he is absolutely horrible with a firearm and he obviously never tested the gun with that supressor/ammo combo before the shooting.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think people are watching too many movies.

Professionals don’t leave the backpack, don’t get caught on camera, etc.. with a pro, the guy would have just dropped out of nowhere

Idk. I thought that initially but with the revelation about the Monopoly money and the clearly deliberate camera shots, it is clear he is trying to be seen at least.

Agree. An amateur would be caught by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At first I thought this guy must be acting on his own, especially given that he left his phone and cup. But now I think he's an assassin. Everything he left, he left on purpose. He looked directly at the camera in the cab on purpose. The only mistake he made was to flirt with that woman at the hostel. And he is clearly much smarter than the cops.

I think it’s multiple people to throw the cops off.

PP you responded to and I agree -- but I think the guy they are looking for is a professional. But agree he must have had help.

Maybe, but are there professional sicarios in the US? Most homicides are little gangsters spraying and praying. Also, he is absolutely horrible with a firearm and he obviously never tested the gun with that supressor/ammo combo before the shooting.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think people are watching too many movies.

Professionals don’t leave the backpack, don’t get caught on camera, etc.. with a pro, the guy would have just dropped out of nowhere

Idk. I thought that initially but with the revelation about the Monopoly money and the clearly deliberate camera shots, it is clear he is trying to be seen at least.

But why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The feels like a real-life version of the trolley scenario or some other philosophical/ethics topic.

And I think it's pretty telling that the CEO response is not "How can we behave more ethically?" but "How can we beef up our personal security?"

Yes, it’s sad that their advice to employees is to ignore the bad things people say while increasing security. I mean, the employees know they are denying claims for a living, I’d imagine…

You think a company's executives are the same as any other employees?

You probably believe them when they say "We're a family here" too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His picture has been widely shown. Surely someone recognized him and has connected with the police?

That depends on his back story. If he’s a hired foreign assassin, probably not. If he is someone horribly wronged by the insurance company, also probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At first I thought this guy must be acting on his own, especially given that he left his phone and cup. But now I think he's an assassin. Everything he left, he left on purpose. He looked directly at the camera in the cab on purpose. The only mistake he made was to flirt with that woman at the hostel. And he is clearly much smarter than the cops.

I think it’s multiple people to throw the cops off.

PP you responded to and I agree -- but I think the guy they are looking for is a professional. But agree he must have had help.

Maybe, but are there professional sicarios in the US? Most homicides are little gangsters spraying and praying. Also, he is absolutely horrible with a firearm and he obviously never tested the gun with that supressor/ammo combo before the shooting.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think people are watching too many movies.

Professionals don’t leave the backpack, don’t get caught on camera, etc.. with a pro, the guy would have just dropped out of nowhere

Idk. I thought that initially but with the revelation about the Monopoly money and the clearly deliberate camera shots, it is clear he is trying to be seen at least.

Agree. An amateur would be caught by now.

I don’t think he is a hit man. I think he is probably extremely intelligent with a high attention to detail. He did his homework on how other people get caught and practiced and planned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His picture has been widely shown. Surely someone recognized him and has connected with the police?

People have no interest in turning in Robin Hood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Their chance to get him was in the first couple of hours after the murder. He’s long gone. And the NYPD looks completely incompetent. They haven’t even figured out this guy’s name and they have a pretty clear picture and DNA.

They may know his name but are not showing their hand yet. I’m not sure they have his DNA. Maybe he planted the water bottle on purpose. Even if they have DNA, it’s irrelevant unless he’s in a database somewhere. If he is a foreigner, he wouldn’t be. Even as an American, if he has no prior criminal record, why would his DNA be in any system?

If he has some dumb relative that has done one of the DNA services (Ancestry, 23 and me..) they may find him. Note: people are so stupid for sending their DNA into these services

Yeah. I always tell my kids not to use these services in case one of us assassinates someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m amazed at the number of people who think health insurance is the main problem, as if the hospitals just honest businessmen submitting bills for their services and the docs as well. The whole system is a sh&t show. Cardiologist in the US make like a half a million, in the Uk it’s like £150K.

People should be mad at their legislators for allowing it to get this way. This is not to say that insurers don’t have their problems but they are but one cog in the wheel of grift and dysfunction.

Cardiologists actually provide an extremely valuable service. Insurance companies suck money out of the system. Do you really not see the difference?

In many cases they keep the system from ripping people off and in many cases make sure that people don’t get the wrong med or unnecessary procedures. I know you think your doctor is the bees knees and would never do anything unethical or wrong but you would be wrong. Consider the fact that so many physician groups have sold out to PE who are managing care by the way in which they manage the practice. The docs didn’t sell because they are concerned about the good of the patients - they wanted a paycheck. There are no innocents in this game.

Yep. Private equity is all over specialized surgical and medical groups …. these doctors are money machines. Cha Ching! $$ Smart doctors know how to game the system. Spend 15 minutes with a patient, quick exam, order scans. Done. Next!

Even large hospital groups order needless scans, ultrasounds, blood work, procedures, unnecessary surgeries…it’s insane.

Yes—I’m generally pro doctor but anyone who thinks that doctors don’t need checks on spending is naive. The nursing homes are notorious for ordering useless tests and therapies to pad their profits. And lots of doctors will just write whatever test or script their patient wants because it’s easier than arguing or because they are making a profit (remember the opioid epidemic?). Everyone would like to have great doctors who only prescribe medically necessary stuff and only do so in their best interest, and have affordable health care that covers all medically necessary treatments, even if those treatments cost millions of dollars a year for a single condition. But it’s not reality. Yes, let’s crack down on the bad actors, but this generalized hate for health insurance providers is just so naive and dangerous. Does anyone remember the world before health insurance? Working class people just died if they got anything that needed more than a doctors visit. Pooling of risk is a good thing—that’s what insurance is. But insurance companies have to follow their written policies.

There are monsters at every level of the system. This hospital allowed this doctor to misdiagnose and kill patients because he made money for them.

The opioid epidemic is due in part to physicians being courted by pharma sales people and the fact that no one was watching what was going on so the pill mills were allowed to dispense like crazy and Medicaid just paid. I’m not saying health insurance companies are angels by any means but there are plenty of bad actors out there.


https://www.propublica.org/article/thomas-weiner-montana-st-peters-hospital-oncology

Also look at the stories about patients being kept in psych wards so that the monstrous doctors could keep billing insurance. It's sickening. The whole system from insurance to hospital to medical staff, is corrupt.

And Americans need to stop thinking this country has the most envied medical system in the world, because anyone who has actually traveled and needed medical care in other countries, knows it's BS. I have friends currently traveling to a couple of other countries for advanced medical treatments that the US doesn't offer.

You are delusional. I am a doctor we are being forced by insurance companies to release patients before they are ready and /or before we think they are stabilized enough to stay out of the hospital. Sure- there may be some exceptions, but trust me, docs get no pay outs from this. Our reimbursements and pay are declining, but we keep working. We see NPs and PAs constantly ordering unnecessary tests and prescribing controlled stimulants because that’s what patients want and they don’t have the background and education to know better , and we’re constantly having to fix it. You all know nothing about health care and it’s so evident. These for profit entities are killing us and you. And you just take it and try to lay blame on the very people (and the only people) working to keep you alive.

Agree. Except for the doctors that are either self employed internists overseeing a nursing home or part owner in some cases. Those are some major schemers

The doctor at assisted living sees patients once a month. Charges $300 for a short visit of maybe 15-20 min.

In some cases, the visit is a just PA stopping by the apartment, asking if all is okay, and then leaving.

$300 for that. They call it a doctor appt even when it’s just a PA walking in and out of the apartment.

Yet they think patients are the one fleecing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Their chance to get him was in the first couple of hours after the murder. He’s long gone. And the NYPD looks completely incompetent. They haven’t even figured out this guy’s name and they have a pretty clear picture and DNA.

They may know his name but are not showing their hand yet. I’m not sure they have his DNA. Maybe he planted the water bottle on purpose. Even if they have DNA, it’s irrelevant unless he’s in a database somewhere. If he is a foreigner, he wouldn’t be. Even as an American, if he has no prior criminal record, why would his DNA be in any system?

They don't know his name. Eric Adams is saying "we know his name but aren't telling it becuase we don't want to give him an advantage." That's ridiculous -- you just wouldn't say anytning if you didn't want to give him an advantage. They don't know it.

That was my original point in sharing the article. It was ridiculous for Adams to say that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person who thinks the ex-wife set this up and the rest of the story is smoke and mirrors? They’ve been separated since 2018, maybe her financial situation was getting ready to change. I find it suspect that she is aware of him receiving threats as she purports. I don’t know of any couple who has been separated for six years who are aware of the day to day of their former spouse. Just a thought.

I mean they have kids together and he may think she needs to be aware of threats in case she noticed anything odd. Or maybe someone told her after the fact there had been threats and she was just repeating that. It may not have been first hand knowledge.

I don’t buy it’s the wife because if she was still married to him then his money was still also half hers.

I don’t think it’s the wife. They’ve been apart a long time. What would her motivation be to do it now in this moment? The kids are in high school, and he probably was a hands off dad due to his work. So, she probably got to do what she wanted.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If they find the guy it is going to be hard to find 12 people who are going to unanimously find him guilty.

I imagine one person goes with jury nullification and votes not guilty.

Don't be ridiculous.

Don't be so naive. Look at postings all over the internet and try to find ones that are sympathetic to the CEO. While most people (hopefully) don't agree in killing, the vast majority of people are not sad at all. The sentiment is so strong it is going to be hard to find an impartial jury. Are they going to exclude everyone who has ever had an issue with health insurance or knows someone who has had an issue? Not many around.

I’d be impartial. The law is you can’t kill people and not that it’s okay to kill evil people.

The ceo was a bad person engaging in insider trading and also was killed. This does not make the killing right.

We have courts to serve justice, which is not supposed to be served through gun shots.

It’s concerning people can’t hold opposing and complicated ideas in their heads.

I don’t know if the CEO is a bad person or not. What’s concerning to me is that people seem to think that he is a bad person just because he runs a health insurance company.

I just don’t understand what people think the alternatives are. Should we have a system where every claim is approved, and people get whatever care they want? That would be great but you could expect much much higher premiums. I also like the idea of non-profit healthcare much better than for-profit healthcare — but that’s essentially what we used to have and most of those non-profit healthcare systems have gone out of business. UPMC is nominally non-profit but operates basically like a for-profit business in all respects.

I just truly do not understand what people want. This country has pretty definitely rejected a socialized medicine model. And everyone was so upset when premiums went up after the ACA put breaks on insurance company denials for preexisting conditions and lifetime limits.

Is UHC demonstrably worse than the other healthcare options out there? Or is the hate just for the system generally? My parents have UHC Medicare Advantage, as do a bunch of other retirees I know, and they’ve never had trouble with claim denial despite have pretty complicated medical needs.

No that’s not the only reason people think he was bad

You have missed a major piece of the story.

He engaged in insider trading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person who thinks the ex-wife set this up and the rest of the story is smoke and mirrors? They’ve been separated since 2018, maybe her financial situation was getting ready to change. I find it suspect that she is aware of him receiving threats as she purports. I don’t know of any couple who has been separated for six years who are aware of the day to day of their former spouse. Just a thought.

I mean they have kids together and he may think she needs to be aware of threats in case she noticed anything odd. Or maybe someone told her after the fact there had been threats and she was just repeating that. It may not have been first hand knowledge.

I don’t buy it’s the wife because if she was still married to him then his money was still also half hers.

I don’t think it’s the wife. They’ve been apart a long time. What would her motivation be to do it now in this moment? The kids are in high school, and he probably was a hands off dad due to his work. So, she probably got to do what she wanted.

They're fighting over money and he is dragging out the divorce.