Fire in upper NW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if they ordered pizza i wonder if they called from SS's phone. i know it seems silly, but if they didn't, that could be one of the mistakes they made (chief lanier said the perps made mistakes/left evidence/etc). ok flame away for such a silly thought.

Nothing flame worthy here. Let's hope that was one of their mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That wapo article says the assistant called someone crying after making the drop off. Why would he be crying? And why not call the police if something was amiss that led to crying?

Oh, please, what a coward if this is true!

He didn't realize anything at the time. He later heard about the fire and the deaths and then it dawned on him that he was there right before or as they were being killed. That's when he called. He was overwhelmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That wapo article says the assistant called someone crying after making the drop off. Why would he be crying? And why not call the police if something was amiss that led to crying?

Oh, please, what a coward if this is true!

Me again, that person needs to be fired immediately.

My apologies.

[Anonymous]

They were probably smart enough to use the home phone. If they were real dopes they used their own cell phone and that will be traced through Dominos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I owned a retail business. Never did I need $40K in cash to operate my business. Why on earth would they need that much cash to operate a martial arts studio?

Did your business allow you to live in a $5M mansion?

The point is no small retail business requires the owner to have $40K in the till. It's a big red flag.

If you read the Washington Post article, Savvas probably did NOT have $40k available at the business. He was making a "flurry of calls" including to the bank and his accountant. Obviously working to raise cash.

I guess that is all he could come up with. Poor man..I couldn't imagine calling an accountant, assistant, some other construction exec, etc trying to ask them for an instant cash loan and he probably wasn't able to tell them the real reason and the urgency of the situation. If he said it was for art I bet nobody was really taking him seriously..ugh

I can't believe the bank, accountant, assistant, etc. did not think raising all this cash was unusual. NO legitimate business deal needs that amount in CASH.

honestly I would think that too if I hadn't heard SS in the voice mail. God knows what was going on and SS played it cool. I would of never thought something was going on by the way he sounded.

I think these people let him down no matter how he sounded over the phone. They should have call the cops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it must have been more than the 40K they were after.

based on all we have heard so far about the 40k (it was not unusual for cash packages to be dropped off, the cash drop off was pre-arranged, the assistant brought the cash with seemingly no questions asked) it seems probable to me that SS could have had the assistant secure the $$ and drop off the 40k earlier...

so, if the killers got to the house on Wed. afternoon, it seems that both the S family AND the killers would want to get the whole thing done and over w/ as quickly as possible so they would immediately make the request for the cash drop off on Wed. afternoon/evening. The only reasons I can think of that they would wait til Thurs would be if the killers deemed it too suspicious to have the drop off Wed night for some reason or if the killers were really after more than the 40k. Otherwise, why would they risk staying at the S house for so long and having such a higher likelihood of being discovered the longer they stayed

I've read two conflicting articles regarding the drop off. One said it was common and the other said it was not at all the norm. The news reports are challenging to decipher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if they ordered pizza i wonder if they called from SS's phone. i know it seems silly, but if they didn't, that could be one of the mistakes they made (chief lanier said the perps made mistakes/left evidence/etc). ok flame away for such a silly thought.

Great thought. Hopefully they did.

How would it help if they did?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I owned a retail business. Never did I need $40K in cash to operate my business. Why on earth would they need that much cash to operate a martial arts studio?

Did your business allow you to live in a $5M mansion?

The point is no small retail business requires the owner to have $40K in the till. It's a big red flag.

If you read the Washington Post article, Savvas probably did NOT have $40k available at the business. He was making a "flurry of calls" including to the bank and his accountant. Obviously working to raise cash.

I guess that is all he could come up with. Poor man..I couldn't imagine calling an accountant, assistant, some other construction exec, etc trying to ask them for an instant cash loan and he probably wasn't able to tell them the real reason and the urgency of the situation. If he said it was for art I bet nobody was really taking him seriously..ugh

I can't believe the bank, accountant, assistant, etc. did not think raising all this cash was unusual. NO legitimate business deal needs that amount in CASH.

1. That's probably why Mr. S. was only able to raise $40,000 total (we can infer) beyond what might have been in the house in the safe.
2. I can think of a number of things I might be able to say in order to raise cash quickly, and I'm not motivated to save my and my family's lives. Could be different stories for different people.
To bank/accountant: "I am buying a piece of art/classic car, and I will get a 30% discount from the seller if I can pay in cash."
To friend in industry: "I've gotten a woman pregnant. She will take care of it but she wants a cash settlement to keep it private and not tell my wife."
To assistant: art story, or "one of the subcontractors is willing to work overtime if we can pay in cash."
"My housekeeper is moving back to her home, and I want to give her enough cash to buy a house in her native country."

I could think of more.

And I'm sure I could think of more reasons.

[Anonymous]

I think personal assistants, admins, housekeepers, etc, are often valuable because they mind their own business, don't interfere, keep their mouths shut, etc. They anticipate and address needs without overt judgement and interference.

I can't imagine jumping to the conclusion that this was a dangerous/violent/hostage situation. I can more readily imagine myself assuming there was something shady going on, whether it involved illicit money transactions or illicit relationships. Either way, I would not think it was my place to interfere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they ordered pizza. This was not a well thought out crime. I think some teenagers broke in and then things just unfolded as the night went on. I mean if this was well planned before hand what did the criminals say to each other.
"We will stay overnight and wait for the banks to open in the morning so we can get cash"
"What if we get hungry?"
"We'll just order pizza"
This crime just happened. Probably by the vacuum salesman that was casing the houses.

So you think it was the teenagers who broke in or the vacuum salesman? You pointed to two different potential suspects in one six line post.

Teenagers, vacuum salesman, random person on the street looking for a quick score. I just don't think this was a planned ahead personal attack on the family. I think it was a random home invasion that unfolded into an overnight hostage situation. For all we know they used knives because they didn't even bring their own weapons. They could have used the homeowners knives and gasoline. Ordering pizza is very impulsive.

Have you read any of the reports?? This was a planned attack by someone who knew their schedules, and even disarmed the alarms.

How do they know that the schedules were known ahead of time. They just break in during the day when perhaps the alarms are off. Perhaps someone just opened the door for them and they just barged in. They can disable them once in the house. They tied up whoever was in the house and then did the same to SS when he walked in. That is what happened in that murder 20 years ago in Potomac. The painter killed 5 people one by one as they came home at different times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they ordered pizza. This was not a well thought out crime. I think some teenagers broke in and then things just unfolded as the night went on. I mean if this was well planned before hand what did the criminals say to each other.
"We will stay overnight and wait for the banks to open in the morning so we can get cash"
"What if we get hungry?"
"We'll just order pizza"
This crime just happened. Probably by the vacuum salesman that was casing the houses.

So you think it was the teenagers who broke in or the vacuum salesman? You pointed to two different potential suspects in one six line post.

Teenagers, vacuum salesman, random person on the street looking for a quick score. I just don't think this was a planned ahead personal attack on the family. I think it was a random home invasion that unfolded into an overnight hostage situation. For all we know they used knives because they didn't even bring their own weapons. They could have used the homeowners knives and gasoline. Ordering pizza is very impulsive.

Have you read any of the reports?? This was a planned attack by someone who knew their schedules, and even disarmed the alarms.

Highly doubt it was random and the investigators even reported that this was not random. This was very personal..to torture that child was very personal.

If they touched their knives, great, I hope they left fingerprints. There are reports that duct tape was used on their mouths and they tied them up with rope. There is something in that big house that they left..the whole house didn't burn down. Something as simple as a pizza box, the box of envelopes that they touched to get one out for the pizza money. They touched the front door, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I owned a retail business. Never did I need $40K in cash to operate my business. Why on earth would they need that much cash to operate a martial arts studio?

Did your business allow you to live in a $5M mansion?

The point is no small retail business requires the owner to have $40K in the till. It's a big red flag.

If you read the Washington Post article, Savvas probably did NOT have $40k available at the business. He was making a "flurry of calls" including to the bank and his accountant. Obviously working to raise cash.

I guess that is all he could come up with. Poor man..I couldn't imagine calling an accountant, assistant, some other construction exec, etc trying to ask them for an instant cash loan and he probably wasn't able to tell them the real reason and the urgency of the situation. If he said it was for art I bet nobody was really taking him seriously..ugh

I can't believe the bank, accountant, assistant, etc. did not think raising all this cash was unusual. NO legitimate business deal needs that amount in CASH.

1. That's probably why Mr. S. was only able to raise $40,000 total (we can infer) beyond what might have been in the house in the safe.
2. I can think of a number of things I might be able to say in order to raise cash quickly, and I'm not motivated to save my and my family's lives. Could be different stories for different people.
To bank/accountant: "I am buying a piece of art/classic car, and I will get a 30% discount from the seller if I can pay in cash."
To friend in industry: "I've gotten a woman pregnant. She will take care of it but she wants a cash settlement to keep it private and not tell my wife."
To assistant: art story, or "one of the subcontractors is willing to work overtime if we can pay in cash."
"My housekeeper is moving back to her home, and I want to give her enough cash to buy a house in her native country."

I could think of more.

And I'm sure I could think of more reasons.

Yeah well you also have the benefit of sitting on a computer coming up with these knowing your family is safe and in no immediate danger. He did not have that luxury so I guess a less than perfect story is to be excused, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think personal assistants, admins, housekeepers, etc, are often valuable because they mind their own business, don't interfere, keep their mouths shut, etc. They anticipate and address needs without overt judgement and interference.

I can't imagine jumping to the conclusion that this was a dangerous/violent/hostage situation. I can more readily imagine myself assuming there was something shady going on, whether it involved illicit money transactions or illicit relationships. Either way, I would not think it was my place to interfere.

I agree. Needing so much money so fast seems unusual, but if in fact it wasn't that unusual for this family -- as some have suggested -- then all the more reason why it would not have raised serious red flags. And outside a movie, who immediately thinks "hostage?" I guess I will going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think personal assistants, admins, housekeepers, etc, are often valuable because they mind their own business, don't interfere, keep their mouths shut, etc. They anticipate and address needs without overt judgement and interference.

I can't imagine jumping to the conclusion that this was a dangerous/violent/hostage situation. I can more readily imagine myself assuming there was something shady going on, whether it involved illicit money transactions or illicit relationships. Either way, I would not think it was my place to interfere.

This about sums up the no police calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Newest update Washington Post:

"The documents show a flurry of phone calls among Savvas Savopoulos, a bank, an accountant, the personal assistant, a construction company executive and Savopoulos’s American Iron Works company in the hours before the fire. The calls started shortly after 7 a.m. May 14 and ended just before noon. The fire was reported at 1:15 p.m.

The assistant, who did not return messages left on his cellphone Wednesday, tried to call Savvas Savopoulos about 1:40 p.m. but got no answer, the police documents show. Savvas Savopoulos had called the assistant at 11:54 a.m. — the last incoming or outgoing call he made or answered before the fire."

To me, there is a strong inference that Savvas was still desperately trying to raise MORE money for the killers after the assistant had dropped off the package of cash. I've always thought these people simply killed to eliminate witnesses. They killed brutally because they are brutes (and may not have wanted to risk carrying a gun or, if they had a gun, have shots heard -- silencers are spy story stuff). However, this makes me think that some of the brutality was anger and frustration by the killers when they realized they couldn't get more money in a short time period.

I'm starting to feel this way, too. Maybe they intended for this to be over rather quickly, thinking they would be able to access cash from onsite. When they couldn't, it escalated.