Virginia vs. Maryland for Universities

[Anonymous]

Also the professors at these large research universities teach less classes per semester because...there are more professors to go around, each of them has to teach fewer courses.

Compare that to LACs where there's only a small number of total professors and they teach 4 courses a semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also the professors at these large research universities teach less classes per semester because...there are more professors to go around, each of them has to teach fewer courses.

Compare that to LACs where there's only a small number of total professors and they teach 4 courses a semester.

That is because, at research universities, the. faculty are paid and rewarded on research, not teaching. This is not a positive for undergrads at research universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

College factual....https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-william-and-mary/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secAdjunct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also the professors at these large research universities teach less classes per semester because...there are more professors to go around, each of them has to teach fewer courses.

Compare that to LACs where there's only a small number of total professors and they teach 4 courses a semester.

Professors teach less at research universities because they spend more time doing research and other things. In many cases they are now down to 2 - 1 or 1 - 1. Some of that time to have a reduced teaching load can be paid for through externally funded research, but a lot of it is actually paid through their base salary, meaning your tuition is paying for them to write papers, submit proposals, etc. This is probably behind a paywall, but it describes what has gone on https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Great-Disappearing/245582

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

Percentages of adjuncts don't tell you what you should know about who teaches actual courses and what you are getting as an undergraduate. An adjunct can teach 1 course a year. An adjunct can teach 4 courses a semester. A professor can teach 4 courses a semester or no courses a semester. (Put differently, a professor can spend 15% of time on research or 100% of time on research and service.) A TA may supervise labs or (perhaps with a different title since this seems to be a point of contention) actually be the primary instructor (UNSWR called them TAs: "10 Universities Where TAs Teach the Most Classes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

One of you is probably citing percentage of classes taught by adjuncts and the other is citing a source for percentage of faculty of record that are adjuncts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

One of you is probably citing percentage of classes taught by adjuncts and the other is citing a source for percentage of faculty of record that are adjuncts.

I do not know where the other person is getting data. College factual is my source, and he claims it is his source.

From:https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-william-and-mary/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secComposition

"At College of William and Mary, only 21.0% of the teaching staff are part-time non-faculty or non-tenure track faculty. This use of adjuncts is far below the national average of 52.4%, which could be indicative of College of William and Mary's commitment to building a strong, long-term instructional team."


That is what what makes schools like W & M special. Most of the faculty are not adjuncts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

One of you is probably citing percentage of classes taught by adjuncts and the other is citing a source for percentage of faculty of record that are adjuncts.

I do not know where the other person is getting data. College factual is my source, and he claims it is his source.

From:https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-william-and-mary/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secComposition

"At College of William and Mary, only 21.0% of the teaching staff are part-time non-faculty or non-tenure track faculty. This use of adjuncts is far below the national average of 52.4%, which could be indicative of College of William and Mary's commitment to building a strong, long-term instructional team."


That is what what makes schools like W & M special. Most of the faculty are not adjuncts.

I mean, it might be better. I'm not saying for sure that it's not better. But, the normal faculty teaching load at schools like UMD and UVA (and almost all other top 100 research schools) is 3-0 or 2-2 (3 courses one semester and zero the next, or two courses each semseter). A bit of quick googling indicates W&M course load for full time tenure track faculty is 3-3. This is a load reserved only for adjuncts, temporary lecturers, and other non-tenure-track folks at most top universities, and represents somewhere between a 50%-100% increased load on the full time faculty. That is substantial. It's not clear that teaching quality would be enhanced by putting that much demand on faculty rather than spreading some load to more adjuncts, some of whom may be very well trained. For example, in the DC area we get former law partners or investment bankers who are now retired and bored to come in and teach adjunct classes at law and business schools. Hard to imagine that is worse than a professor who is overloaded with courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also the professors at these large research universities teach less classes per semester because...there are more professors to go around, each of them has to teach fewer courses.

Compare that to LACs where there's only a small number of total professors and they teach 4 courses a semester.

Fascinating math there. So a large research university will also have . . . . more students. So if fewer professors teach and we have that same large number of students, we get either larger class sizes taught by professors . . . or we get classes taught by someone who isn't a full-time tenured of tenure track professor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

One of you is probably citing percentage of classes taught by adjuncts and the other is citing a source for percentage of faculty of record that are adjuncts.

I do not know where the other person is getting data. College factual is my source, and he claims it is his source.

From:https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-william-and-mary/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secComposition

"At College of William and Mary, only 21.0% of the teaching staff are part-time non-faculty or non-tenure track faculty. This use of adjuncts is far below the national average of 52.4%, which could be indicative of College of William and Mary's commitment to building a strong, long-term instructional team."


That is what what makes schools like W & M special. Most of the faculty are not adjuncts.

I mean, it might be better. I'm not saying for sure that it's not better. But, the normal faculty teaching load at schools like UMD and UVA (and almost all other top 100 research schools) is 3-0 or 2-2 (3 courses one semester and zero the next, or two courses each semseter). A bit of quick googling indicates W&M course load for full time tenure track faculty is 3-3. This is a load reserved only for adjuncts, temporary lecturers, and other non-tenure-track folks at most top universities, and represents somewhere between a 50%-100% increased load on the full time faculty. That is substantial. It's not clear that teaching quality would be enhanced by putting that much demand on faculty rather than spreading some load to more adjuncts, some of whom may be very well trained. For example, in the DC area we get former law partners or investment bankers who are now retired and bored to come in and teach adjunct classes at law and business schools. Hard to imagine that is worse than a professor who is overloaded with courses.

Adjuncts were originally intended to be what you described. The specialist in an area who would bring a different perspective to teach a class. What has happened though is something different. The load is increasingly on adjuncts teaching multiple classes with much lower pay and benefits and very limited job security. That is where the enormous shift in higher ed instruction has taken place.

[Anonymous]

This is a stupid reason to choose where to live. All of these schools are fine and the experience your kid will have at any of these schools will primarily depend on their own preparation and drive. All of the people commenting on this thread probably work with people who went to many of these schools and you all ended up at the same place...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

One of you is probably citing percentage of classes taught by adjuncts and the other is citing a source for percentage of faculty of record that are adjuncts.

I do not know where the other person is getting data. College factual is my source, and he claims it is his source.

From:https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-william-and-mary/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secComposition

"At College of William and Mary, only 21.0% of the teaching staff are part-time non-faculty or non-tenure track faculty. This use of adjuncts is far below the national average of 52.4%, which could be indicative of College of William and Mary's commitment to building a strong, long-term instructional team."


That is what what makes schools like W & M special. Most of the faculty are not adjuncts.

This is entirely incorrect and you are conflating adjuncts with part-time. Adjuncts can be full-time as well. College of W&M has 51% non-tenure track, meaning non-PhD, instructors according to CollegeFactual. That's much higher than other universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP compare the number of courses offered for CS, Physics, or any subject really at UT-Austin vs. W&M, and then come back to complain about course selection.

W&M uses a large number of adjuncts, as does UVA, as do the vast majority of SLACs other than perhaps the very tip top ones.

You simply seem to have very little understanding about how teaching happens at universities.

Actually, W & M is 21% adjunct. GMU, on the other hand, is 50%. Berkeley, the gold standard for State schools is 37%.

40% of professors at W&M are adjuncts, according to College Factual. Where are you getting your information?

University of Michigan is 16% adjunct. University of Maryland is 29% adjunct.

One of you is probably citing percentage of classes taught by adjuncts and the other is citing a source for percentage of faculty of record that are adjuncts.

I do not know where the other person is getting data. College factual is my source, and he claims it is his source.

From:https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-william-and-mary/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secComposition

"At College of William and Mary, only 21.0% of the teaching staff are part-time non-faculty or non-tenure track faculty. This use of adjuncts is far below the national average of 52.4%, which could be indicative of College of William and Mary's commitment to building a strong, long-term instructional team."


That is what what makes schools like W & M special. Most of the faculty are not adjuncts.

This is entirely incorrect and you are conflating adjuncts with part-time. Adjuncts can be full-time as well. College of W&M has 51% non-tenure track, meaning non-PhD, instructors according to CollegeFactual. That's much higher than other universities.

What is most relevant is who teaches what. You can have a bunch of adjuncts that only teach one or they can teach four classes. Here are some data points with common criteria.

Percentage of Credit Hours Produced by Type of Faculty:

UMCP 2018
38% Tenured/Tenure Track
25% Full time / non-tenure track
29% Part time
8% Other (including TAs)*

UMCP 2013
42% Tenured/Tenure Track
18% Full time / non-tenure track
27% Part time
13% Other (including TAs)*

UVA 2010
59% Tenured/Tenure Track
19% Full time / non-tenure track
14% Part time
8% TAs

W&M 2010
63% Tenured/Tenure Track
20% Full time / non-tenure track
17% Part time
0% TAs

GMU 2010
36% Tenured/Tenure Track
26% Full time / non-tenure track
33% Part time
5% TAs

* Other faculty include department chairs, non-tenure track research or public service faculty, and teaching assistants

https://www.usmd.edu/usm/adminfinance/IR/reports/USM_Faculty_Instructional_Workload_Report_2018_11_19_2018.pdf
Report No. 450 at http://jlarc.virginia.gov