Did you folks not do ANY saving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As to law school, the banks no longer provide private loans because the students attending law school have no collateral. You probably know this. FAFSA, however, thinks we are loaded and should be able to afford $100K a year in tuition in after tax dollars (meaning we have to go make $500k to afford the $300K for law school).

Can you tell me where a 22 year old can go and get a $300K loan for law school with no collateral today? If so, I would like to know.

Why not have your child get a job and go to law school when he's older and doesn't have to count his parents' income/assets?

Why do you think a minimum wage job during the 10 weeks of summer is going to make a dent in $100K a year grad school bills?

Everyone in my law school class that worked before school was in a real job: engineer, chemist, political operative. Law school isn't when you're 16. You're not making minimum wage.

+1 It's usually not a good idea to go to grad school straight from undergrad. Work clarifies the grad degree to get, is a boost in admissions, and is a boost with job placement afterwards. It's very hard to make good grad school decisions when you haven't had a bit of a career first. Also, you may find an employer that funds it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP's initial naive and rude question: yes, we did save. A lot. When both children were born I opened education trusts for both them back in the 1990s. Every single dollar/check that came in for the children went into the education trusts with thank you notes from the children (sometimes just tracing the palm of their hands because they couldn't yet write letters) writing thanks for each $25 check. There were no 529s then. So I get both trusts up each to at least $100K and then the 2007 great recession starts and both accounts for both children lost 1/3 of value overnight. So now we start rebuilding those accounts (yes professionally managed). Meanwhile, as parents who had their children "later in life", as in our late 30s and early 40s, we are also trying to sock away retirement money. There were a number of years where we just couldn't do that due to property taxes, mortgage, insurance, health and liability insurance, and other expenses. Then comes the prolonged illness of a parent which went on 8 years and cost 100s of thousands a year for uncovered medical care. Then came the diagnosis on one of the children of autism and subsequent uncovered medical expenses for shrinks, testing, meds, and special needs schools. My DW has to quit her lucractive career to take care of both SN children. Then the same occurred with the second child. Now we are paying for two separate SN schools, testing every 3 years, shrinks, psychs, and testers and tutoring. Fortunately, when I had written the trusts, I had specified that we could use the trusts for all educational expenses so - upon the advice of our CPA - we started to drain those trusts to pay for tutors pre-college and during college and to pay for SN special ed schools - because the trusts would hurt us when applying for financial aid. We get one child through university in five years which was extraordinary because he was autistic - but he did it with 100% financial support from us. Child no. 2 is still in college. When we went to apply for financial aid for both years ago we learned we were a donut hole family (i.e., no financial aid available) so our EFC was that we were to pay the full amount of any educational costs but we did take out the $5500 minimal loans but that meant we had to pay everything else for college (both instate) out of pocket. Then parent no. 2 goes bad and we are paying for residential care for that parent. Meanwhile, we are struggling to meet the college payments and our own mortgage and enormous property taxes. We can't afford to pay our life and disability insurance premiums so they lapse. Then Obamacare screws us. There is no ACA provider left in our zip code because all the providers pulled out so we have no healthcare options left (we are self-employed). We end up buying a corporate policy because both parents work from home at $35K a year because there are no alternatives and it is irresponsible to have no insurance, especially when the parents are on the older side and the children are young adults (one who, in the eyes of the insurance company, is impregnable). Then parent no. 3 becomes senile and needs expensive residential care. Now child no 1 has taken off academically and is going to grad school. To the extent we can afford it we will try to pay for it. He wants to do law school after that as I did. My law school is now approaching $100K a year. Meanwhile we make very good money even on D.C. scale but 40% of that is taken off the top in taxes, $29K in property taxes, another $35K in health care since we are self-employed, and then grad school tuition and the fourth parent's health care issues looming. So, like 14:07 above, we are now reduced to paying out of pocket for child no . 2's grad school and law school ALL THE WHILE unsuccessfully socking away retirement money. And before you say child no 2 should get student loans, go learn what kind of student loans are available when you are a donut hole family. The answer is zero because the lender wants to see collateral. And our children have none, of course.

So my answer to OP is to not judge unless they've been through the FAFSA, CSS and college application process. I wake up every morning grateful that we have wonderful in-state opportunities for education in Virginia.

And before the nasties come on this board and criticize, no we don't take nice vacations. We drive 15 year old cars. it's been so long that I've traveled anywhere that my passport expired years ago. And we've lived in the same house for 24 years.

tl;dr - you make a crap-ton of money, but are "struggling" not because over the years, we spent it on other things. Despite that, we have paid for both kids' undergraduate educations. And we're paying for grad school out of pocket. One kids wants to go to Harvard Law, just like me, but it's *hard* to afford $100k/year for that, too. We have decided to spend much of out money on college, grad school, and parents' medical expenses, and have given retirement short shrift. Oh, and we pay close to $30k in property taxes, so we just live in a hovel.

Did I forget anything?

[Anonymous]

He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

[Anonymous]

I think the rude and nasty posters on here have zero interest in learning about why others haven't saved as much as they have, or have made different life choices out of necessity (or, you know, out of choice). There's no sense trying to type out the very good reasons why other posters might not have the same level of savings, because OP isn't about actually learning from other people's experiences that OP's experiences aren't universal. It's all about making OP and the other jerks on the thread feel superior. Why feed that trollishness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

I mean, one of them is currently at Oxford and gunning for Harvard Law with an internship at the Senate that apparently none of us could dream of our kids getting. There's special needs and there's "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As to law school, the banks no longer provide private loans because the students attending law school have no collateral. You probably know this. FAFSA, however, thinks we are loaded and should be able to afford $100K a year in tuition in after tax dollars (meaning we have to go make $500k to afford the $300K for law school).

Can you tell me where a 22 year old can go and get a $300K loan for law school with no collateral today? If so, I would like to know.

Why not have your child get a job and go to law school when he's older and doesn't have to count his parents' income/assets?

Why do you think a minimum wage job during the 10 weeks of summer is going to make a dent in $100K a year grad school bills?

Everyone in my law school class that worked before school was in a real job: engineer, chemist, political operative. Law school isn't when you're 16. You're not making minimum wage.

Yes, the only ones who go directly to law school are those with rich parents who can pay. Everyone else works their butt's off and saves, saves, saves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

I mean, one of them is currently at Oxford and gunning for Harvard Law with an internship at the Senate that apparently none of us could dream of our kids getting. There's special needs and there's "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT."

You do not really understand SNs, do you? This is the whole point. Many kids with SNs can go on to do great things, if they are
just taught the right way that they learn. And a lot of them off start slowly, with a lot of angst, because the schools do not teach the way their brains work, but if you get them in the right place (often $$!$!!) they can take off and do amazing things. Plus they have learned a ton of grit and resilience along the way due to their earlier struggles, so they have an edge over the kids (like me!) who kind of sailed through the education system with nary a problem. I am not surprised at all that this guy ‘s kid is doing super well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP's initial naive and rude question: yes, we did save. A lot. When both children were born I opened education trusts for both them back in the 1990s. Every single dollar/check that came in for the children went into the education trusts with thank you notes from the children (sometimes just tracing the palm of their hands because they couldn't yet write letters) writing thanks for each $25 check. There were no 529s then. So I get both trusts up each to at least $100K and then the 2007 great recession starts and both accounts for both children lost 1/3 of value overnight. So now we start rebuilding those accounts (yes professionally managed). Meanwhile, as parents who had their children "later in life", as in our late 30s and early 40s, we are also trying to sock away retirement money. There were a number of years where we just couldn't do that due to property taxes, mortgage, insurance, health and liability insurance, and other expenses. Then comes the prolonged illness of a parent which went on 8 years and cost 100s of thousands a year for uncovered medical care. Then came the diagnosis on one of the children of autism and subsequent uncovered medical expenses for shrinks, testing, meds, and special needs schools. My DW has to quit her lucractive career to take care of both SN children. Then the same occurred with the second child. Now we are paying for two separate SN schools, testing every 3 years, shrinks, psychs, and testers and tutoring. Fortunately, when I had written the trusts, I had specified that we could use the trusts for all educational expenses so - upon the advice of our CPA - we started to drain those trusts to pay for tutors pre-college and during college and to pay for SN special ed schools - because the trusts would hurt us when applying for financial aid. We get one child through university in five years which was extraordinary because he was autistic - but he did it with 100% financial support from us. Child no. 2 is still in college. When we went to apply for financial aid for both years ago we learned we were a donut hole family (i.e., no financial aid available) so our EFC was that we were to pay the full amount of any educational costs but we did take out the $5500 minimal loans but that meant we had to pay everything else for college (both instate) out of pocket. Then parent no. 2 goes bad and we are paying for residential care for that parent. Meanwhile, we are struggling to meet the college payments and our own mortgage and enormous property taxes. We can't afford to pay our life and disability insurance premiums so they lapse. Then Obamacare screws us. There is no ACA provider left in our zip code because all the providers pulled out so we have no healthcare options left (we are self-employed). We end up buying a corporate policy because both parents work from home at $35K a year because there are no alternatives and it is irresponsible to have no insurance, especially when the parents are on the older side and the children are young adults (one who, in the eyes of the insurance company, is impregnable). Then parent no. 3 becomes senile and needs expensive residential care. Now child no 1 has taken off academically and is going to grad school. To the extent we can afford it we will try to pay for it. He wants to do law school after that as I did. My law school is now approaching $100K a year. Meanwhile we make very good money even on D.C. scale but 40% of that is taken off the top in taxes, $29K in property taxes, another $35K in health care since we are self-employed, and then grad school tuition and the fourth parent's health care issues looming. So, like 14:07 above, we are now reduced to paying out of pocket for child no . 2's grad school and law school ALL THE WHILE unsuccessfully socking away retirement money. And before you say child no 2 should get student loans, go learn what kind of student loans are available when you are a donut hole family. The answer is zero because the lender wants to see collateral. And our children have none, of course.

So my answer to OP is to not judge unless they've been through the FAFSA, CSS and college application process. I wake up every morning grateful that we have wonderful in-state opportunities for education in Virginia.

And before the nasties come on this board and criticize, no we don't take nice vacations. We drive 15 year old cars. it's been so long that I've traveled anywhere that my passport expired years ago. And we've lived in the same house for 24 years.

tl;dr - you make a crap-ton of money, but are "struggling" not because over the years, we spent it on other things. Despite that, we have paid for both kids' undergraduate educations. And we're paying for grad school out of pocket. One kids wants to go to Harvard Law, just like me, but it's *hard* to afford $100k/year for that, too. We have decided to spend much of out money on college, grad school, and parents' medical expenses, and have given retirement short shrift. Oh, and we pay close to $30k in property taxes, so we just live in a hovel.

Did I forget anything?

two SN kids attending college only happens in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP's initial naive and rude question: yes, we did save. A lot. When both children were born I opened education trusts for both them back in the 1990s. Every single dollar/check that came in for the children went into the education trusts with thank you notes from the children (sometimes just tracing the palm of their hands because they couldn't yet write letters) writing thanks for each $25 check. There were no 529s then. So I get both trusts up each to at least $100K and then the 2007 great recession starts and both accounts for both children lost 1/3 of value overnight. So now we start rebuilding those accounts (yes professionally managed). Meanwhile, as parents who had their children "later in life", as in our late 30s and early 40s, we are also trying to sock away retirement money. There were a number of years where we just couldn't do that due to property taxes, mortgage, insurance, health and liability insurance, and other expenses. Then comes the prolonged illness of a parent which went on 8 years and cost 100s of thousands a year for uncovered medical care. Then came the diagnosis on one of the children of autism and subsequent uncovered medical expenses for shrinks, testing, meds, and special needs schools. My DW has to quit her lucractive career to take care of both SN children. Then the same occurred with the second child. Now we are paying for two separate SN schools, testing every 3 years, shrinks, psychs, and testers and tutoring. Fortunately, when I had written the trusts, I had specified that we could use the trusts for all educational expenses so - upon the advice of our CPA - we started to drain those trusts to pay for tutors pre-college and during college and to pay for SN special ed schools - because the trusts would hurt us when applying for financial aid. We get one child through university in five years which was extraordinary because he was autistic - but he did it with 100% financial support from us. Child no. 2 is still in college. When we went to apply for financial aid for both years ago we learned we were a donut hole family (i.e., no financial aid available) so our EFC was that we were to pay the full amount of any educational costs but we did take out the $5500 minimal loans but that meant we had to pay everything else for college (both instate) out of pocket. Then parent no. 2 goes bad and we are paying for residential care for that parent. Meanwhile, we are struggling to meet the college payments and our own mortgage and enormous property taxes. We can't afford to pay our life and disability insurance premiums so they lapse. Then Obamacare screws us. There is no ACA provider left in our zip code because all the providers pulled out so we have no healthcare options left (we are self-employed). We end up buying a corporate policy because both parents work from home at $35K a year because there are no alternatives and it is irresponsible to have no insurance, especially when the parents are on the older side and the children are young adults (one who, in the eyes of the insurance company, is impregnable). Then parent no. 3 becomes senile and needs expensive residential care. Now child no 1 has taken off academically and is going to grad school. To the extent we can afford it we will try to pay for it. He wants to do law school after that as I did. My law school is now approaching $100K a year. Meanwhile we make very good money even on D.C. scale but 40% of that is taken off the top in taxes, $29K in property taxes, another $35K in health care since we are self-employed, and then grad school tuition and the fourth parent's health care issues looming. So, like 14:07 above, we are now reduced to paying out of pocket for child no . 2's grad school and law school ALL THE WHILE unsuccessfully socking away retirement money. And before you say child no 2 should get student loans, go learn what kind of student loans are available when you are a donut hole family. The answer is zero because the lender wants to see collateral. And our children have none, of course.

So my answer to OP is to not judge unless they've been through the FAFSA, CSS and college application process. I wake up every morning grateful that we have wonderful in-state opportunities for education in Virginia.

And before the nasties come on this board and criticize, no we don't take nice vacations. We drive 15 year old cars. it's been so long that I've traveled anywhere that my passport expired years ago. And we've lived in the same house for 24 years.

tl;dr - you make a crap-ton of money, but are "struggling" not because over the years, we spent it on other things. Despite that, we have paid for both kids' undergraduate educations. And we're paying for grad school out of pocket. One kids wants to go to Harvard Law, just like me, but it's *hard* to afford $100k/year for that, too. We have decided to spend much of out money on college, grad school, and parents' medical expenses, and have given retirement short shrift. Oh, and we pay close to $30k in property taxes, so we just live in a hovel.

Did I forget anything?

two SN kids attending college only happens in America.

Something I definitely appreciate about the US! There was an interesting NSF-funded study that looked at the disproportionate number of people with dyslexia who ended up in the high positions/high achievement in visual spatially dominated STEM fields. So glad our school system doesn't lock them out of higher degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP's initial naive and rude question: yes, we did save. A lot. When both children were born I opened education trusts for both them back in the 1990s. Every single dollar/check that came in for the children went into the education trusts with thank you notes from the children (sometimes just tracing the palm of their hands because they couldn't yet write letters) writing thanks for each $25 check. There were no 529s then. So I get both trusts up each to at least $100K and then the 2007 great recession starts and both accounts for both children lost 1/3 of value overnight. So now we start rebuilding those accounts (yes professionally managed). Meanwhile, as parents who had their children "later in life", as in our late 30s and early 40s, we are also trying to sock away retirement money. There were a number of years where we just couldn't do that due to property taxes, mortgage, insurance, health and liability insurance, and other expenses. Then comes the prolonged illness of a parent which went on 8 years and cost 100s of thousands a year for uncovered medical care. Then came the diagnosis on one of the children of autism and subsequent uncovered medical expenses for shrinks, testing, meds, and special needs schools. My DW has to quit her lucractive career to take care of both SN children. Then the same occurred with the second child. Now we are paying for two separate SN schools, testing every 3 years, shrinks, psychs, and testers and tutoring. Fortunately, when I had written the trusts, I had specified that we could use the trusts for all educational expenses so - upon the advice of our CPA - we started to drain those trusts to pay for tutors pre-college and during college and to pay for SN special ed schools - because the trusts would hurt us when applying for financial aid. We get one child through university in five years which was extraordinary because he was autistic - but he did it with 100% financial support from us. Child no. 2 is still in college. When we went to apply for financial aid for both years ago we learned we were a donut hole family (i.e., no financial aid available) so our EFC was that we were to pay the full amount of any educational costs but we did take out the $5500 minimal loans but that meant we had to pay everything else for college (both instate) out of pocket. Then parent no. 2 goes bad and we are paying for residential care for that parent. Meanwhile, we are struggling to meet the college payments and our own mortgage and enormous property taxes. We can't afford to pay our life and disability insurance premiums so they lapse. Then Obamacare screws us. There is no ACA provider left in our zip code because all the providers pulled out so we have no healthcare options left (we are self-employed). We end up buying a corporate policy because both parents work from home at $35K a year because there are no alternatives and it is irresponsible to have no insurance, especially when the parents are on the older side and the children are young adults (one who, in the eyes of the insurance company, is impregnable). Then parent no. 3 becomes senile and needs expensive residential care. Now child no 1 has taken off academically and is going to grad school. To the extent we can afford it we will try to pay for it. He wants to do law school after that as I did. My law school is now approaching $100K a year. Meanwhile we make very good money even on D.C. scale but 40% of that is taken off the top in taxes, $29K in property taxes, another $35K in health care since we are self-employed, and then grad school tuition and the fourth parent's health care issues looming. So, like 14:07 above, we are now reduced to paying out of pocket for child no . 2's grad school and law school ALL THE WHILE unsuccessfully socking away retirement money. And before you say child no 2 should get student loans, go learn what kind of student loans are available when you are a donut hole family. The answer is zero because the lender wants to see collateral. And our children have none, of course.

So my answer to OP is to not judge unless they've been through the FAFSA, CSS and college application process. I wake up every morning grateful that we have wonderful in-state opportunities for education in Virginia.

And before the nasties come on this board and criticize, no we don't take nice vacations. We drive 15 year old cars. it's been so long that I've traveled anywhere that my passport expired years ago. And we've lived in the same house for 24 years.

tl;dr - you make a crap-ton of money, but are "struggling" not because over the years, we spent it on other things. Despite that, we have paid for both kids' undergraduate educations. And we're paying for grad school out of pocket. One kids wants to go to Harvard Law, just like me, but it's *hard* to afford $100k/year for that, too. We have decided to spend much of out money on college, grad school, and parents' medical expenses, and have given retirement short shrift. Oh, and we pay close to $30k in property taxes, so we just live in a hovel.

Did I forget anything?

two SN kids attending college only happens in America.

Something I definitely appreciate about the US! There was an interesting NSF-funded study that looked at the disproportionate number of people with dyslexia who ended up in the high positions/high achievement in visual spatially dominated STEM fields. So glad our school system doesn't lock them out of higher degrees.

Absolutely x 1000000. It is a crime that so many with dyslexia do
Not get the appropriate help so we can all eventually benefit from the strengths and talents they do have to Offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As to law school, the banks no longer provide private loans because the students attending law school have no collateral. You probably know this. FAFSA, however, thinks we are loaded and should be able to afford $100K a year in tuition in after tax dollars (meaning we have to go make $500k to afford the $300K for law school).

Can you tell me where a 22 year old can go and get a $300K loan for law school with no collateral today? If so, I would like to know.

Why not have your child get a job and go to law school when he's older and doesn't have to count his parents' income/assets?

Why do you think a minimum wage job during the 10 weeks of summer is going to make a dent in $100K a year grad school bills?

Everyone in my law school class that worked before school was in a real job: engineer, chemist, political operative. Law school isn't when you're 16. You're not making minimum wage.

+1 It's usually not a good idea to go to grad school straight from undergrad. Work clarifies the grad degree to get, is a boost in admissions, and is a boost with job placement afterwards. It's very hard to make good grad school decisions when you haven't had a bit of a career first. Also, you may find an employer that funds it.

+1 Same with my MBA. You need to have real prior work experience to draw upon to really contribute to discussions and provide context for what you are learning. My parents paid for my inexpensive state university and it never would have occurred to me to ask them to pay for my grad school.

[Anonymous]

This has turned into the most ridiculous thread of entitled individuals who live in another universe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As to law school, the banks no longer provide private loans because the students attending law school have no collateral. You probably know this. FAFSA, however, thinks we are loaded and should be able to afford $100K a year in tuition in after tax dollars (meaning we have to go make $500k to afford the $300K for law school).

Can you tell me where a 22 year old can go and get a $300K loan for law school with no collateral today? If so, I would like to know.

Why not have your child get a job and go to law school when he's older and doesn't have to count his parents' income/assets?

Why do you think a minimum wage job during the 10 weeks of summer is going to make a dent in $100K a year grad school bills?

Everyone in my law school class that worked before school was in a real job: engineer, chemist, political operative. Law school isn't when you're 16. You're not making minimum wage.

I really doubt what you are saying. I went to the T1 law school right out of undergrad. Back then, students did go right into law school out of undergrad. HOwever for Harvard business, they took two years off, as a general rule. Today, Harvard Law wants to see two years off, which is a change from when I attended, but none of them have "REAL jobs" as engineer chemist political operative - - you know as well as I do that those titles come long after two years out of undergrad. The students who enter Harvard Law today usually have spent their two years getting a master's from london school of economics, master's from Oxbridge, or D.Phils, or other master's degrees from abroad. No one in my law school class had "a real job: engineer chemist politic operative". They were all one year out of college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As to law school, the banks no longer provide private loans because the students attending law school have no collateral. You probably know this. FAFSA, however, thinks we are loaded and should be able to afford $100K a year in tuition in after tax dollars (meaning we have to go make $500k to afford the $300K for law school).

Can you tell me where a 22 year old can go and get a $300K loan for law school with no collateral today? If so, I would like to know.

Why not have your child get a job and go to law school when he's older and doesn't have to count his parents' income/assets?

Why do you think a minimum wage job during the 10 weeks of summer is going to make a dent in $100K a year grad school bills?

Everyone in my law school class that worked before school was in a real job: engineer, chemist, political operative. Law school isn't when you're 16. You're not making minimum wage.

+1 It's usually not a good idea to go to grad school straight from undergrad. Work clarifies the grad degree to get, is a boost in admissions, and is a boost with job placement afterwards. It's very hard to make good grad school decisions when you haven't had a bit of a career first. Also, you may find an employer that funds it.

+1 Same with my MBA. You need to have real prior work experience to draw upon to really contribute to discussions and provide context for what you are learning. My parents paid for my inexpensive state university and it never would have occurred to me to ask them to pay for my grad school.

That is true. Historically the top MBA programs wanted to see their students get some business experience for two years before admission. But, similarly, the law schools did not. They took most students straight in from undergrad. Some, like Columbia law, even offered programs to me that would allow for accelerated law programs by finishing undergrad in 3 years, and then early admit to law school. That all has changed. Harvard now would prefer to see students having had two year's off after undergrad but most often that comes in the realm of more academic work such as a MPP, MBA, or Master's overseas. Or Rhodes, Marshall or Fulbright or other similar scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Darn right I’m not saving my inheritance just so
I can be penalized with no aid for my kids. I bought 2 new cars, got all new windows, maxed out my 401k contribution, and taking a hell of a vacation. Thinking of putting rest toward my mortgage.