Did you folks not do ANY saving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP's initial naive and rude question: yes, we did save. A lot. When both children were born I opened education trusts for both them back in the 1990s. Every single dollar/check that came in for the children went into the education trusts with thank you notes from the children (sometimes just tracing the palm of their hands because they couldn't yet write letters) writing thanks for each $25 check. There were no 529s then. So I get both trusts up each to at least $100K and then the 2007 great recession starts and both accounts for both children lost 1/3 of value overnight. So now we start rebuilding those accounts (yes professionally managed). Meanwhile, as parents who had their children "later in life", as in our late 30s and early 40s, we are also trying to sock away retirement money. There were a number of years where we just couldn't do that due to property taxes, mortgage, insurance, health and liability insurance, and other expenses. Then comes the prolonged illness of a parent which went on 8 years and cost 100s of thousands a year for uncovered medical care. Then came the diagnosis on one of the children of autism and subsequent uncovered medical expenses for shrinks, testing, meds, and special needs schools. My DW has to quit her lucractive career to take care of both SN children. Then the same occurred with the second child. Now we are paying for two separate SN schools, testing every 3 years, shrinks, psychs, and testers and tutoring. Fortunately, when I had written the trusts, I had specified that we could use the trusts for all educational expenses so - upon the advice of our CPA - we started to drain those trusts to pay for tutors pre-college and during college and to pay for SN special ed schools - because the trusts would hurt us when applying for financial aid. We get one child through university in five years which was extraordinary because he was autistic - but he did it with 100% financial support from us. Child no. 2 is still in college. When we went to apply for financial aid for both years ago we learned we were a donut hole family (i.e., no financial aid available) so our EFC was that we were to pay the full amount of any educational costs but we did take out the $5500 minimal loans but that meant we had to pay everything else for college (both instate) out of pocket. Then parent no. 2 goes bad and we are paying for residential care for that parent. Meanwhile, we are struggling to meet the college payments and our own mortgage and enormous property taxes. We can't afford to pay our life and disability insurance premiums so they lapse. Then Obamacare screws us. There is no ACA provider left in our zip code because all the providers pulled out so we have no healthcare options left (we are self-employed). We end up buying a corporate policy because both parents work from home at $35K a year because there are no alternatives and it is irresponsible to have no insurance, especially when the parents are on the older side and the children are young adults (one who, in the eyes of the insurance company, is impregnable). Then parent no. 3 becomes senile and needs expensive residential care. Now child no 1 has taken off academically and is going to grad school. To the extent we can afford it we will try to pay for it. He wants to do law school after that as I did. My law school is now approaching $100K a year. Meanwhile we make very good money even on D.C. scale but 40% of that is taken off the top in taxes, $29K in property taxes, another $35K in health care since we are self-employed, and then grad school tuition and the fourth parent's health care issues looming. So, like 14:07 above, we are now reduced to paying out of pocket for child no . 2's grad school and law school ALL THE WHILE unsuccessfully socking away retirement money. And before you say child no 2 should get student loans, go learn what kind of student loans are available when you are a donut hole family. The answer is zero because the lender wants to see collateral. And our children have none, of course.

So my answer to OP is to not judge unless they've been through the FAFSA, CSS and college application process. I wake up every morning grateful that we have wonderful in-state opportunities for education in Virginia.

And before the nasties come on this board and criticize, no we don't take nice vacations. We drive 15 year old cars. it's been so long that I've traveled anywhere that my passport expired years ago. And we've lived in the same house for 24 years.

tl;dr - you make a crap-ton of money, but are "struggling" not because over the years, we spent it on other things. Despite that, we have paid for both kids' undergraduate educations. And we're paying for grad school out of pocket. One kids wants to go to Harvard Law, just like me, but it's *hard* to afford $100k/year for that, too. We have decided to spend much of out money on college, grad school, and parents' medical expenses, and have given retirement short shrift. Oh, and we pay close to $30k in property taxes, so we just live in a hovel.

Did I forget anything?

two SN kids attending college only happens in America.

Something I definitely appreciate about the US! There was an interesting NSF-funded study that looked at the disproportionate number of people with dyslexia who ended up in the high positions/high achievement in visual spatially dominated STEM fields. So glad our school system doesn't lock them out of higher degrees.

Absolutely x 1000000. It is a crime that so many with dyslexia do
Not get the appropriate help so we can all eventually benefit from the strengths and talents they do have to Offer.[/quote


I so agree with all of this! In past ages, my DD would have been the "odd single aunt" who haunts the upstairs attic in a Faulkner novel. Today, she is a graduate of a great college and fully employed in her chosen field of animation/game design. But if we parents hadn't pushed all the way, it would not have happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Darn right I’m not saving my inheritance just so
I can be penalized with no aid for my kids. I bought 2 new cars, got all new windows, maxed out my 401k contribution, and taking a hell of a vacation. Thinking of putting rest toward my mortgage.

It really doesn't work that way. Wait to comment after you've filled out the FAFSA and the CSS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

BINGO. And four elderly parents in different stages of care. That is America today. But according to the FAFSA and the CSS they make too much money so must pay full=freight. Why do you not know this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

BINGO. And four elderly parents in different stages of care. That is America today. But according to the FAFSA and the CSS they make too much money so must pay full=freight. Why do you not know this?

Everyone has to make hard choices. He chose to support his parents, and not save for college. Although he is apparently cash-flowing graduate school, so perhaps you should direct your sympathy elsewhere, and not to the Harvard law grad who makes a truckload of money, can get his kid a special senatorial internship, has enough $$ to pay for multiple graduate programs at the same time, and intends to foot the bill for his kid to go to Harvard law? Surely we can agree in that on the master list of "people who deserve help to pay for their kids' college" he ranks pretty far down on the list?

FFS, people, use your heads, and read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. When we got to the point of wondering if our child would even have the opportunity to go to college because of her early dyslexia struggles, we started pulling money out of college savings to pay for a private dyslexia school for her beginning in fourth grade. It is making a world of difference for her. But when it comes time for college, will it mean it will look like, to people like OP, that we “did not plan?” What a luxury, OP, to have the public school system be able to educate your child. You should thank your lucky stars everyday for this.

We did exactly the same for our two SN kids when we got the early diagnoses. Fortunately. the trusts (not huge) allowed for it. The costs were $3K every three years for testing, then private tutoring several days a week. Therapy for one, Psychiatry and meds (not covered by our health care plan) for another child. For her, over time, we went through five psychiatrists. Private SN schools at full tuition. Testing and evaluation for extra time on the ACT. ACT prep. College counseling for SN schools. Getting in to colleges that had good disability services departments. Dealing with children's numerous meltdowns at college. Then meeting with the office of disability services when they had not followed through with promised accommodations for children. By then the college trust funds were long gone. Fortunately, DW is a lawyer who had helped draft amendments to the Americans with Disabilities Act so knew her stuff, but it really was hell and FULL PAY to get our kids through college. If you haven't been there don't judge because you have no idea how difficult it is. We paid full freight at both colleges for both children because our saved assets were long gone taking care of them. But are they fully employed? YES! Can they drive (don't laugh - that's a big issue for some SN kids). YES! Do they have a 104K and employer health insurance? YES! So they can both support themselves and not have to live in a SN group home. But damn it cost a lot of money, diligence and time to get there. But my DW and I can die knowing we did our very best for our children and that they are producers in society and will not have to live off of welfare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

I mean, one of them is currently at Oxford and gunning for Harvard Law with an internship at the Senate that apparently none of us could dream of our kids getting. There's special needs and there's "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT."

I assume this is ignorance and sarcasm. All the "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT in the world" will not get you to Oxford. Anyhow, if PP knew anything about SN kids they would know that SN kits perform better on the ACT, not the ACT. He would also know that SN schools do not have IEPS. He would also know that ACT scores do not get you accepted three years later into Oxford for summer study.

All the skills build on earlier skills. If you get early testing, early evaluation, early tutoring and SN schools for the particular need, your child MAY overcome some of their learning disabilities. Of course it all depends on the particular type of learning disability and degree. But all of this costs big bucks. BIG bucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. When we got to the point of wondering if our child would even have the opportunity to go to college because of her early dyslexia struggles, we started pulling money out of college savings to pay for a private dyslexia school for her beginning in fourth grade. It is making a world of difference for her. But when it comes time for college, will it mean it will look like, to people like OP, that we “did not plan?” What a luxury, OP, to have the public school system be able to educate your child. You should thank your lucky stars everyday for this.

We did exactly the same for our two SN kids when we got the early diagnoses. Fortunately. the trusts (not huge) allowed for it. The costs were $3K every three years for testing, then private tutoring several days a week. Therapy for one, Psychiatry and meds (not covered by our health care plan) for another child. For her, over time, we went through five psychiatrists. Private SN schools at full tuition. Testing and evaluation for extra time on the ACT. ACT prep. College counseling for SN schools. Getting in to colleges that had good disability services departments. Dealing with children's numerous meltdowns at college. Then meeting with the office of disability services when they had not followed through with promised accommodations for children. By then the college trust funds were long gone. Fortunately, DW is a lawyer who had helped draft amendments to the Americans with Disabilities Act so knew her stuff, but it really was hell and FULL PAY to get our kids through college. If you haven't been there don't judge because you have no idea how difficult it is. We paid full freight at both colleges for both children because our saved assets were long gone taking care of them. But are they fully employed? YES! Can they drive (don't laugh - that's a big issue for some SN kids). YES! Do they have a 104K and employer health insurance? YES! So they can both support themselves and not have to live in a SN group home. But damn it cost a lot of money, diligence and time to get there. But my DW and I can die knowing we did our very best for our children and that they are producers in society and will not have to live off of welfare.

Meant 401K. Dad is dyslexic too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

I mean, one of them is currently at Oxford and gunning for Harvard Law with an internship at the Senate that apparently none of us could dream of our kids getting. There's special needs and there's "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT."

You do not really understand SNs, do you? This is the whole point. Many kids with SNs can go on to do great things, if they are
just taught the right way that they learn. And a lot of them off start slowly, with a lot of angst, because the schools do not teach the way their brains work, but if you get them in the right place (often $$!$!!) they can take off and do amazing things. Plus they have learned a ton of grit and resilience along the way due to their earlier struggles, so they have an edge over the kids (like me!) who kind of sailed through the education system with nary a problem. I am not surprised at all that this guy ‘s kid is doing super well.

Bravo or Brava as the case may be! All true! But a lot of parent intervention is needed to find those right SN schools, consultants, and therapies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

BINGO. And four elderly parents in different stages of care. That is America today. But according to the FAFSA and the CSS they make too much money so must pay full=freight. Why do you not know this?

Everyone has to make hard choices. He chose to support his parents, and not save for college. Although he is apparently cash-flowing graduate school, so perhaps you should direct your sympathy elsewhere, and not to the Harvard law grad who makes a truckload of money, can get his kid a special senatorial internship, has enough $$ to pay for multiple graduate programs at the same time, and intends to foot the bill for his kid to go to Harvard law? Surely we can agree in that on the master list of "people who deserve help to pay for their kids' college" he ranks pretty far down on the list?

FFS, people, use your heads, and read.

That's not what he said. He said he started saving when the children were born. How many parents do that? He said the kids are not yet at the grad school/ law school level. What do you expect him to do with the four elderly parents in the meantime? Throw them out on the street?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

I mean, one of them is currently at Oxford and gunning for Harvard Law with an internship at the Senate that apparently none of us could dream of our kids getting. There's special needs and there's "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT."

I assume this is ignorance and sarcasm. All the "mommy got me an IEP to get extra time on the SAT in the world" will not get you to Oxford. Anyhow, if PP knew anything about SN kids they would know that SN kits perform better on the ACT, not the ACT. He would also know that SN schools do not have IEPS. He would also know that ACT scores do not get you accepted three years later into Oxford for summer study.

All the skills build on earlier skills. If you get early testing, early evaluation, early tutoring and SN schools for the particular need, your child MAY overcome some of their learning disabilities. Of course it all depends on the particular type of learning disability and degree. But all of this costs big bucks. BIG bucks.

I'd like to know the doctor that all these people are getting extra SAT time. We've fought the school for years and finally gave up. We, like others, spent a small fortune out of pocket in therapies, a few years of private school, etc. for our child and we cannot get any supports but 30 minutes of group speech therapy that was not related to my child's needs. School wanted to change diagnosis to support their demand for extra staffing but refused regardless of the results to give more services or supports to our child. We don't expect any help for college. Ours know they will go to a state school except if they get financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

BINGO. And four elderly parents in different stages of care. That is America today. But according to the FAFSA and the CSS they make too much money so must pay full=freight. Why do you not know this?

Everyone has to make hard choices. He chose to support his parents, and not save for college. Although he is apparently cash-flowing graduate school, so perhaps you should direct your sympathy elsewhere, and not to the Harvard law grad who makes a truckload of money, can get his kid a special senatorial internship, has enough $$ to pay for multiple graduate programs at the same time, and intends to foot the bill for his kid to go to Harvard law? Surely we can agree in that on the master list of "people who deserve help to pay for their kids' college" he ranks pretty far down on the list?

FFS, people, use your heads, and read.

That's not what he said. He said he started saving when the children were born. How many parents do that? He said the kids are not yet at the grad school/ law school level. What do you expect him to do with the four elderly parents in the meantime? Throw them out on the street?

We did that. We opened up the prepaid college plan a few months after each child was a few months old. We paid it like a car note.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has two SN kids. That’s a big deal pp. it’s expensive. Why so rude?

BINGO. And four elderly parents in different stages of care. That is America today. But according to the FAFSA and the CSS they make too much money so must pay full=freight. Why do you not know this?

Everyone has to make hard choices. He chose to support his parents, and not save for college. Although he is apparently cash-flowing graduate school, so perhaps you should direct your sympathy elsewhere, and not to the Harvard law grad who makes a truckload of money, can get his kid a special senatorial internship, has enough $$ to pay for multiple graduate programs at the same time, and intends to foot the bill for his kid to go to Harvard law? Surely we can agree in that on the master list of "people who deserve help to pay for their kids' college" he ranks pretty far down on the list?

FFS, people, use your heads, and read.

That's not what he said. He said he started saving when the children were born. How many parents do that? He said the kids are not yet at the grad school/ law school level. What do you expect him to do with the four elderly parents in the meantime? Throw them out on the street?

No. But that doesn't mean he deserved aid for his kids' college, either.

I'm not prepared to entertain whining/complaining about "how come *we* don't get any help" from a Harvard trained lawyer who had sufficient resources to pay for the medical care of 3 parents, private school for his kids, $30k in property taxes, and still cash flow college and graduate school for his kids - and still plans to pay, as he tells in, $300k for Harvard law.

This guy is in no universe a donut hole family, and it's offensive that he's asserting that he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. When we got to the point of wondering if our child would even have the opportunity to go to college because of her early dyslexia struggles, we started pulling money out of college savings to pay for a private dyslexia school for her beginning in fourth grade. It is making a world of difference for her. But when it comes time for college, will it mean it will look like, to people like OP, that we “did not plan?” What a luxury, OP, to have the public school system be able to educate your child. You should thank your lucky stars everyday for this.

We did exactly the same for our two SN kids when we got the early diagnoses. Fortunately. the trusts (not huge) allowed for it. The costs were $3K every three years for testing, then private tutoring several days a week. Therapy for one, Psychiatry and meds (not covered by our health care plan) for another child. For her, over time, we went through five psychiatrists. Private SN schools at full tuition. Testing and evaluation for extra time on the ACT. ACT prep. College counseling for SN schools. Getting in to colleges that had good disability services departments. Dealing with children's numerous meltdowns at college. Then meeting with the office of disability services when they had not followed through with promised accommodations for children. By then the college trust funds were long gone. Fortunately, DW is a lawyer who had helped draft amendments to the Americans with Disabilities Act so knew her stuff, but it really was hell and FULL PAY to get our kids through college. If you haven't been there don't judge because you have no idea how difficult it is. We paid full freight at both colleges for both children because our saved assets were long gone taking care of them. But are they fully employed? YES! Can they drive (don't laugh - that's a big issue for some SN kids). YES! Do they have a 104K and employer health insurance? YES! So they can both support themselves and not have to live in a SN group home. But damn it cost a lot of money, diligence and time to get there. But my DW and I can die knowing we did our very best for our children and that they are producers in society and will not have to live off of welfare.

So, you had sufficient resources to pay full freight for college - and that is after paying full tuition at private schools, private tutoring, testing for extra time, college counseling, and ACT prep?

Sounds like you're pretty rich. And don't need aid, and certainly aren't a donut family.

[Anonymous]

There are times when I have mixed feelings about having only one child, and later in life. But reading this thread is not one of those times.

[Anonymous]

You all need to stop beating up on this one parent. You have NO idea how little you know about parenting a child with SNs and how ignorant you all sound. In the words of Donald Rumsfeld, you don’t even know what you don’t know. For you, these are the unknown unknowns. (Kudos to you. No hard feelings. But you just do not know of which you speak.). But good on ya for thinking you were good planners.