SAT "adversity" adjustment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

I do have empathy for others but what about my family? I am the only in my family's generation to go to college (local state u while working). I waited to have kids so my spouse and I could be in a better financial position. Because of that my kids can have a better piece of pie than I did but now that pie is getting sent to someone else. I want my kids to have their pie!

Your kids have the pie already! They have a stable home life, parents who are engaged and emotionally/physically present, presumably support in areas where they struggle and enrichment in areas where they excel.

Presumably they don't need to work after school, or babysit younger siblings while you and your partner work a third shift.

They have healthy food and clean water.

They have a veritable pie buffet. Congratulations!

No, you're talking about the basics! I'm talking about moving ahead in life and finally being able to gain access to a higher standard of living including admission to better universities. If my kids continue to do well in school, they will get dinged on admissions because I simply did what I was supposed to do. What's the incentive to do well in this country if your pie that you worked hard for goes to someone else who didn't bother lifting a finger?

Most poor people aren't poor because they "don't lift a finger." Your kids are born on third base, and you want to have them treated like they hit a triple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

I do have empathy for others but what about my family? I am the only in my family's generation to go to college (local state u while working). I waited to have kids so my spouse and I could be in a better financial position. Because of that my kids can have a better piece of pie than I did but now that pie is getting sent to someone else. I want my kids to have their pie!

Your kids have the pie already! They have a stable home life, parents who are engaged and emotionally/physically present, presumably support in areas where they struggle and enrichment in areas where they excel.

Presumably they don't need to work after school, or babysit younger siblings while you and your partner work a third shift.

They have healthy food and clean water.

They have a veritable pie buffet. Congratulations!

But how do you know this? Middle and UMC kids could possibly be abused by their stepfathers, have parents who argue non stop, have a mom who went through breast cancer, be bullied mercilessly at school. There is no way that the college board,can determine who is facing adverse situations and who isn't. And quite frankly they are stepping out of their role in even trying to make an attempt to do so.

Then that middle/UMC applicant needs to write about the abuse in his/her essay. Disclosure of this information also adds context to the application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

I do have empathy for others but what about my family? I am the only in my family's generation to go to college (local state u while working). I waited to have kids so my spouse and I could be in a better financial position. Because of that my kids can have a better piece of pie than I did but now that pie is getting sent to someone else. I want my kids to have their pie!

Your kids have the pie already! They have a stable home life, parents who are engaged and emotionally/physically present, presumably support in areas where they struggle and enrichment in areas where they excel.

Presumably they don't need to work after school, or babysit younger siblings while you and your partner work a third shift.

They have healthy food and clean water.

They have a veritable pie buffet. Congratulations!

But how do you know this? Middle and UMC kids could possibly be abused by their stepfathers, have parents who argue non stop, have a mom who went through breast cancer, be bullied mercilessly at school. There is no way that the college board,can determine who is facing adverse situations and who isn't. And quite frankly they are stepping out of their role in even trying to make an attempt to do so.

Then that middle/UMC applicant needs to write about the abuse in his/her essay. Disclosure of this information also adds context to the application.

+1 They are still better off than the poor kid who was abused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

How will the college board know,this information? Will kids be required to supply it? If so, how would the College Board verify it? I hate to say it, but I think I would tell my kids to lie about our HHI. This shit has gone too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aside from people’s (understandable) desire to have the most opportunity available to their kids, I think a lot of disagreement on measures like these stems from disagreement about what the purposes of college admission are. Is admission a reward for the best academic performance in high school? Is admission a vehicle for finding the people who will achieve success later in life with the college’s help? Is admission a way to identify people who will become leaders in their communities and train them? Is admission a way to curate a community of students with diverse interests and backgrounds?

These purposes differ by college and often colleges are considering a mix of the above. There is often frustration from students and their parents where they see students with lower stats admitted to a college. But that views college admission as only serving the first purpose. And even then, academic achievement should—in the views of many—be assessed in context, including the resources a student had available to them and the obstacles they faced in achieving success.

+1

To some extent, maybe, but elite schools never want to stop being elite. So they’ll always need a critical mass of kids with top grades and scores.

There will be more than enough kids with top grades, scores AND adversity points. That's why the MC/UMC --who are already feel they are being unfairly squeezed out of elites due to not qualifying for financial aid but not being able to pay 70k/yr--hate this even more. I can understand their view though I don't agree. My dream is that this will be the straw that makes everyone ease off on the mystique of elite colleges, stop hyper-focusing on optimizing for a distant goal for their kids, find a neighborhood they like that works for them and support the local schools rather than trying to crowd into the "best" one, and live lives a bit more in the present in a more varied SES community, but I'm not holding my breath...

[Anonymous]

Everyone will now have a sad story for their essay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

How will the college board know,this information? Will kids be required to supply it? If so, how would the College Board verify it? I hate to say it, but I think I would tell my kids to lie about our HHI. This shit has gone too far.

Read the thread--this has already been explained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kind of makes north Arlington less desirable, no? Off to Manassas!

I always thought schools either of those areas were subpar.

There are a number of UMC schools in the Manassas area.

[Anonymous]

The “Adversity Score” may or may not be informative.

However, the fact that the College Board is keeping those score from the students themselves is quite bothersome. If the score has legitimate benefits, then they should be transparent about it. Otherwise, people have a right to be quite skeptical about how that score is being used and who is getting impacted positively or negatively by it. The lack of transparency is why so many people have a problem with holistic admissions policies and anything other than just straight GPA/test score determinations in the first place.

If you’re taking the test (and usually paying for it), then you should have a right to know everything that the test provider is sending to colleges, including but not limited to an Adversity Score. Hiding it from students will only create a brand new bogeyman (whether it’s fair or not).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The “Adversity Score” may or may not be informative.

However, the fact that the College Board is keeping those score from the students themselves is quite bothersome. If the score has legitimate benefits, then they should be transparent about it. Otherwise, people have a right to be quite skeptical about how that score is being used and who is getting impacted positively or negatively by it. The lack of transparency is why so many people have a problem with holistic admissions policies and anything other than just straight GPA/test score determinations in the first place.

If you’re taking the test (and usually paying for it), then you should have a right to know everything that the test provider is sending to colleges, including but not limited to an Adversity Score. Hiding it from students will only create a brand new bogeyman (whether it’s fair or not).

Why? Students don't have the right to read their reference letters from teachers.

[Anonymous]

College admissions is still and will always remain overwhelmingly favorable to rich kids. I’ll take my chances being rich over being poor any day of the week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

+1 it’s like oh I’m so sad I can afford to have a nice house and neighborhood why are these poor students who are dealing with violence and poverty taking our deserved spots?? LOL. Don’t worry your kids will be just fine with all the social capital you have given them by living in your “nice” homogenous neighborhood.

What about regular old middle class people whose kids go to a nice, but not spectacular suburban high school. I can't afford SAT tutoring for my kid, she will have to do the free online prep, but they won't get the benefit of attending a school with a low adversity score.

What adversity has she faced?

Well presumably the College Board assumes that she will have received SAT tutoring which she hasn't. Partly because we are still paying off our own student loans, which can't be determined based on our incomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The “Adversity Score” may or may not be informative.

However, the fact that the College Board is keeping those score from the students themselves is quite bothersome. If the score has legitimate benefits, then they should be transparent about it. Otherwise, people have a right to be quite skeptical about how that score is being used and who is getting impacted positively or negatively by it. The lack of transparency is why so many people have a problem with holistic admissions policies and anything other than just straight GPA/test score determinations in the first place.

If you’re taking the test (and usually paying for it), then you should have a right to know everything that the test provider is sending to colleges, including but not limited to an Adversity Score. Hiding it from students will only create a brand new bogeyman (whether it’s fair or not).

Why? Students don't have the right to read their reference letters from teachers.

MCPS just did adjusted scores on this year's exam for entrance into the 4th and 5th grade Magnet program. They disclosed raw COGAT score, national percentile and percentiLe adjusted to show how you ranked against your home school SES. They had no problem sharing the essentially "adversity" score.

[Anonymous]

just create more opportunities for the rich to game the system. Making up a poor background is actually easier than improving the (hard) SAT scores. Look at all the fake "athletes", "community leaders". ..

[Anonymous]

How about for overcoming special needs?