Family of Four on 90k - An Upper Middle Class Existence

[Anonymous]

Isn't the point of this thread that OP called herself upper middle class and now people are arguing about "making do" with even less? Of course people can buy in high crime areas with bad schools or can raise their kids in an apartment. And plenty of people do live in this area on very low wages.

None of that detracts from the fact that OP is not upper middle class and that an upper middle class lifestyle is hard to afford around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the point of this thread that OP called herself upper middle class and now people are arguing about "making do" with even less? Of course people can buy in high crime areas with bad schools or can raise their kids in an apartment. And plenty of people do live in this area on very low wages.

None of that detracts from the fact that OP is not upper middle class and that an upper middle class lifestyle is hard to afford around here.

Two separate conversations really. To tie it together, getting to UMC takes hard work, dedication, and some time grinding it out such as living in apartments. There's a measure of luck but it's not nearly to the degree lamented by millennials. The worst thing someone can do is to cheat themselves by externalizing the cause of their failures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I call bull shit on buying a 800k row house on a 90k salary

Call BS all you like, but I bought my $800k row house on a lower salary than that. Of course it wasn't worth $800k then, but you understood that, right?

Do you want a cookie? Think of how much salary you would need to buy that same home today. So the whole 90k and I am making it fine argument is BULLSHIT if you bought before the bubble. thanks and troll through you dick.

What is with some of you posters and your vitriol? Are you like this IRL? Get a grip. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the point of this thread that OP called herself upper middle class and now people are arguing about "making do" with even less? Of course people can buy in high crime areas with bad schools or can raise their kids in an apartment. And plenty of people do live in this area on very low wages.

None of that detracts from the fact that OP is not upper middle class and that an upper middle class lifestyle is hard to afford around here.

Two separate conversations really. To tie it together, getting to UMC takes hard work, dedication, and some time grinding it out such as living in apartments. There's a measure of luck but it's not nearly to the degree lamented by millennials. The worst thing someone can do is to cheat themselves by externalizing the cause of their failures.

Agree. OP long since disappeared from this thread. Her assertion that she lives an upper middle class existence is getting some people side tracked. Her real point (IMO) was to counter all the crazy threads about how it was impossible to survive in this city on $300k or $500k, threads that come up regularly. She and others have proved that's not the case but some entitled millennials seem to think that they are owed a perfect house in a perfect school district just as soon as they enter the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had.

Sigh, so I like how you constructed a strawman argument about the tuition. I'm assuming your tuition was free, paid for by a generous government or parents, and that you haven't been sending money home to your family, because you skimmed right over that.

And yes, many immigrants come from Europe, Asia (China & India), without any student debt. Compared to the US? Don't be ridiculous.

I see you did the low-money down route, so basically you just leveraged yourself to the hilt and could have easily ended up underwater. You gambled and won the housing lottery, just accept your good fortune.

So I'm curious PP - what is your story? Why so bitter? Are you unable to buy a house?

so???

[Anonymous]

Go on, bitter PP, we're dying to hear your story....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the point of this thread that OP called herself upper middle class and now people are arguing about "making do" with even less? Of course people can buy in high crime areas with bad schools or can raise their kids in an apartment. And plenty of people do live in this area on very low wages.

None of that detracts from the fact that OP is not upper middle class and that an upper middle class lifestyle is hard to afford around here.

Two separate conversations really. To tie it together, getting to UMC takes hard work, dedication, and some time grinding it out such as living in apartments. There's a measure of luck but it's not nearly to the degree lamented by millennials. The worst thing someone can do is to cheat themselves by externalizing the cause of their failures.

Agree. OP long since disappeared from this thread. Her assertion that she lives an upper middle class existence is getting some people side tracked. Her real point (IMO) was to counter all the crazy threads about how it was impossible to survive in this city on $300k or $500k, threads that come up regularly. She and others have proved that's not the case but some entitled millennials seem to think that they are owed a perfect house in a perfect school district just as soon as they enter the workforce.

Maybe that's what her point should've been(barring the millennial swipe), but she was pretty adamant about insisting that she was upper middle class. And, taking her post a face value, she left in a huff when people rightly pointed out that she was mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the point of this thread that OP called herself upper middle class and now people are arguing about "making do" with even less? Of course people can buy in high crime areas with bad schools or can raise their kids in an apartment. And plenty of people do live in this area on very low wages.

None of that detracts from the fact that OP is not upper middle class and that an upper middle class lifestyle is hard to afford around here.

Two separate conversations really. To tie it together, getting to UMC takes hard work, dedication, and some time grinding it out such as living in apartments. There's a measure of luck but it's not nearly to the degree lamented by millennials. The worst thing someone can do is to cheat themselves by externalizing the cause of their failures.

Agree. OP long since disappeared from this thread. Her assertion that she lives an upper middle class existence is getting some people side tracked. Her real point (IMO) was to counter all the crazy threads about how it was impossible to survive in this city on $300k or $500k, threads that come up regularly. She and others have proved that's not the case but some entitled millennials seem to think that they are owed a perfect house in a perfect school district just as soon as they enter the workforce.

Maybe that's what her point should've been(barring the millennial swipe), but she was pretty adamant about insisting that she was upper middle class. And, taking her post a face value, she left in a huff when people rightly pointed out that she was mistaken.

Also, I think some people have missed the fact that while the people making 300k+ who complain about being broke are ridiculous, there is some merit to the fact that families trying to afford housing, childcare, student loans, etc. on 150k or so a year really do have to stretch their budgets. Even renting while trying to save up for a down payment is very expensive if you want to be near your job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the point of this thread that OP called herself upper middle class and now people are arguing about "making do" with even less? Of course people can buy in high crime areas with bad schools or can raise their kids in an apartment. And plenty of people do live in this area on very low wages.

None of that detracts from the fact that OP is not upper middle class and that an upper middle class lifestyle is hard to afford around here.

Two separate conversations really. To tie it together, getting to UMC takes hard work, dedication, and some time grinding it out such as living in apartments. There's a measure of luck but it's not nearly to the degree lamented by millennials. The worst thing someone can do is to cheat themselves by externalizing the cause of their failures.

Agree. OP long since disappeared from this thread. Her assertion that she lives an upper middle class existence is getting some people side tracked. Her real point (IMO) was to counter all the crazy threads about how it was impossible to survive in this city on $300k or $500k, threads that come up regularly. She and others have proved that's not the case but some entitled millennials seem to think that they are owed a perfect house in a perfect school district just as soon as they enter the workforce.

Maybe that's what her point should've been(barring the millennial swipe), but she was pretty adamant about insisting that she was upper middle class. And, taking her post a face value, she left in a huff when people rightly pointed out that she was mistaken.

Also, I think some people have missed the fact that while the people making 300k+ who complain about being broke are ridiculous, there is some merit to the fact that families trying to afford housing, childcare, student loans, etc. on 150k or so a year really do have to stretch their budgets. Even renting while trying to save up for a down payment is very expensive if you want to be near your job.

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

I don't see what that's a problem. People who make 300-400k are not immune to financial concerns. The concerns may manifest themselves in a way that doesn't relate to someone who make 90k, but they are no less real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

I don't see what that's a problem. People who make 300-400k are not immune to financial concerns. The concerns may manifest themselves in a way that doesn't relate to someone who make 90k, but they are no less real.

but complaining that you are poor? come on....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

I don't see what that's a problem. People who make 300-400k are not immune to financial concerns. The concerns may manifest themselves in a way that doesn't relate to someone who make 90k, but they are no less real.

but complaining that you are poor? come on....

Right, that's going a little overboard. Poor should be reserved for people who have financial hardship related to life's essentials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

I don't see what that's a problem. People who make 300-400k are not immune to financial concerns. The concerns may manifest themselves in a way that doesn't relate to someone who make 90k, but they are no less real.

but complaining that you are poor? come on....

Right, that's going a little overboard. Poor should be reserved for people who have financial hardship related to life's essentials.

I'm not sure they complained they are poor just not as rich some people think. Have you seen the massive amount of student loans from professional schools? Current housing prices? Current childcare costs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

I don't see what that's a problem. People who make 300-400k are not immune to financial concerns. The concerns may manifest themselves in a way that doesn't relate to someone who make 90k, but they are no less real.

but complaining that you are poor? come on....

Right, that's going a little overboard. Poor should be reserved for people who have financial hardship related to life's essentials.

I'm not sure they complained they are poor just not as rich some people think. Have you seen the massive amount of student loans from professional schools? Current housing prices? Current childcare costs?

You think those of us making less are somehow clueless what things cost ? No we aren't. We just have to make do with less. So we know it is possible to live on less. Hearing that someone making four times as much can't seem to figure this out is so frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. The problem is - its the people making 300-400k who are complaining. Not the people making 150k.

I don't see what that's a problem. People who make 300-400k are not immune to financial concerns. The concerns may manifest themselves in a way that doesn't relate to someone who make 90k, but they are no less real.

but complaining that you are poor? come on....

Right, that's going a little overboard. Poor should be reserved for people who have financial hardship related to life's essentials.

I'm not sure they complained they are poor just not as rich some people think. Have you seen the massive amount of student loans from professional schools? Current housing prices? Current childcare costs?

You think those of us making less are somehow clueless what things cost ? No we aren't. We just have to make do with less. So we know it is possible to live on less. Hearing that someone making four times as much can't seem to figure this out is so frustrating.

+1000