MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Shorter PP: I've got mine, who cares about you.
even shorter: I'M AN ASS

Isn't it amazing that all the rich are Asses and the poor are selfless!

It's not amazing at all. It's perfectly logical. The more money you have, the more opportunity and scope you have for being an ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe. But my point in asking for a solution is that even if we are in agreement that poor/underachieving students don't do well in schools with high numbers of other poor/underachieving students, what specifically should or can be done? I am hearing lots of general statements about how it's helpful to those students to be surrounded by high-achieving peers, and that's likely true, but that doesn't mean it's easily accomplished, especially on the scale that people here seem to want it done (i.e. every poor child should be able to have the opportunities that wealthy children have). Busing has been proposed, but I don't see how that necessarily helps, for many of the reasons already given. Shouldn't we focus on ways to improve the schools where they are, with the students they have, rather than trying to figure out how to get all kids into the high-performing schools through busing or redistricting, or some other method of integration? It seems there's a lot of anger directed at those apparently selfish people who live in relatively wealthier areas without much practical purpose.

We've been trying that. It's not enough. One reason it's not enough is that the schools' main problem are that a high proportion of their students are poor. The way to fix this problem is to lower the school's proportion of students who are poor.

And, really, I'm not seeing a lot of anger directed at people who live in Bethesda, Potomac, and Chevy Chase. I am seeing a lot of defensiveness from people who live in Bethesda, Potomac, and Chevy Chase, though.

Oh, there's plenty of carping about how people in those communities are not doing their share because their FARMS or minority numbers are too low...why can't they be subject to busing? Why should they be entitled to go to high-performing schools just because they were able to buy houses in the zones?

Anyway, you say that "the way to fix this problem is to lower the school's proportion of students who are poor." How, specifically, do you propose to do that?

Or, more accurately, why should they be entitled to go to schools with few or no poor students just because they have a lot of money?

Now, if you're saying that there are no easy answers or quick solutions, I agree -- there aren't. However, that's different from saying that nothing can be done. I think that there are a lot of things that can be done, all the way from small-scale busing and zoning (which MCPS is already doing) to big changes in county housing policy, land use and development policy, and transportation policy. None of these things individually will solve the problem. But each of them will help.

Well, until we decide that schools should be filled lottery-style from the entire county, and people desire neighborhood schools, schools will be populated by the people who live in a community...which can be very homogenous sometimes. House prices in the western part of the county are high because of the schools, and it's a self-perpetuating cycle. Disrupting that connection is a big thing to tackle, but many things are being tried:

*Developers have to set aside a certain percentage of affordable units in new construction.
--there are still not enough affordable units to meet demand in wealthier areas
*There's been some effort to redistrict or institute busing to increase diversity
--many schools on the western side of the county are very overcrowded, but perhaps more can be done between RM and Wootton?
*Magnet MS and HS programs are nearly exclusively set up in schools on the eastern side of the county to encourage high-performing kids to attend schools that are otherwise lower performing
--many students on the western side opt out because of long commutes
*Title I schools get additional funding to lower class sizes and address other educational needs

What else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, until we decide that schools should be filled lottery-style from the entire county, and people desire neighborhood schools, schools will be populated by the people who live in a community...which can be very homogenous sometimes. House prices in the western part of the county are high because of the schools, and it's a self-perpetuating cycle. Disrupting that connection is a big thing to tackle, but many things are being tried:

*Developers have to set aside a certain percentage of affordable units in new construction.
--there are still not enough affordable units to meet demand in wealthier areas
*There's been some effort to redistrict or institute busing to increase diversity
--many schools on the western side of the county are very overcrowded, but perhaps more can be done between RM and Wootton?
*Magnet MS and HS programs are nearly exclusively set up in schools on the eastern side of the county to encourage high-performing kids to attend schools that are otherwise lower performing
--many students on the western side opt out because of long commutes
*Title I schools get additional funding to lower class sizes and address other educational needs

What else?

It's a good list, and one additional major advantage for MCPS is that the school district is Montgomery County. But it's not enough. Housing policy is school policy (http://tcf.org/assets/downloads/tcf-Schwartz.pdf), which means that housing policy needs to change, to allow developers to build at higher densities in wealthy areas that are currently zoned to keep out the non-wealthy, which means that transportation policy needs to change, because all of those new people need to get places, and if they all have to drive everywhere it will be a disaster, and it means that school construction funding policy needs to change, because the new schools aren't getting built fast enough...

And then of course the people in wealthy areas that are currently zoned to keep out the non-wealthy like it that way, and will fight any change. See, for example, the Town of Chevy Chase and the Purple Line.

[Anonymous]

Where is there available land in the western part of the county to support high density housing?

[Anonymous]

Another thread was started just today where OP said her preK kid was in a class w/ mostly FARM & ESL kids & was asking how long it will take to be comfortable with this situation. She was called a troll (since clearly that's just a crazy thing to ask an anonymous board) and racist. Yet it's her kids that are at the school w/ the FARM & ESL kids - I'm going to bet good money that at least some of those calling her out as racist go to majority white & majority non-FARM schools. Interesting to look at this 13 page thread in contrast to that one since it boils down to similar concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Shorter PP: I've got mine, who cares about you.
even shorter: I'M AN ASS

Isn't it amazing that all the rich are Asses and the poor are selfless!

It's not amazing at all. It's perfectly logical. The more money you have, the more opportunity and scope you have for being an ass.

No it is total BS. The poor want more and more from the rich. It is the Robin Hood effect. The seem selfless because they don't have the means to be selfish. Rich people do. Most people want more for their kids than they had. No matter what the wealth status is. But the poor don't take the time to bring up their children correctly. Instill values, importance of an education, discipline, etc.. The ones that do and become something, move out of the area because they too don't want to be there anymore. All these people shouting racist, I dare you to go move in SE DC to show how even you want everything. There is no way anyone would do that. No matter what their race or wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where is there available land in the western part of the county to support high density housing?

How about all those teardowns in Bethesda, with the new 7,000 square foot houses? You could put several residential units on those properties. Except, of course, that the zoning code doesn't allow it, because then non-rich people would be able to move in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Shorter PP: I've got mine, who cares about you.
even shorter: I'M AN ASS

Isn't it amazing that all the rich are Asses and the poor are selfless!

It's not amazing at all. It's perfectly logical. The more money you have, the more opportunity and scope you have for being an ass.

No it is total BS. The poor want more and more from the rich. It is the Robin Hood effect. The seem selfless because they don't have the means to be selfish. Rich people do. Most people want more for their kids than they had. No matter what the wealth status is. But the poor don't take the time to bring up their children correctly. Instill values, importance of an education, discipline, etc.. The ones that do and become something, move out of the area because they too don't want to be there anymore. All these people shouting racist, I dare you to go move in SE DC to show how even you want everything. There is no way anyone would do that. No matter what their race or wealth.

Exactly. You just explained why the rich are asses -- namely, because they have the money to be asses.

As for "SE DC", are you talking about the people who live in $3 million townhouses, right?

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Capitol-Hill-Washington-DC/pmf,pf_pt/416350_zpid/121685_rid/38.914144,-76.970644,38.860095,-77.027206_rect/13_zm/

[Anonymous]

Omg. schools in Stockholm aren't very diverse. Too many whiteys. And then a handful of Asians. They must fly in more diverse sets of people. Or they and the "others", are dooooomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Omg. schools in Stockholm aren't very diverse. Too many whiteys. And then a handful of Asians. They must fly in more diverse sets of people. Or they and the "others", are dooooomed.

You can't compare Stockholm to the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever, the white kids are disappearing from MCPS and soon this type of analysis will be completely irrelevant. Even now, it's not remotely realistic to think about spreading them out more broadly to make some urban policy twits happy.

#2 location in the country for illegal aliens means ESL will be SSL in 20 more years. Hispanic population has tripled in 10yrs alone. Looking more and more like inner city LA around here.

Agree. Many schools have duplicates signs up in Spanish, everywhere. May as well just teach and test in Spanish too. Test scores may improve!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see an easy solution nor if we really need one. We bought a house in X area because we liked the area and it had good schools. If the area is rezoned for bad schools, won't people who can afford to just move to areas zoned for good schools?

Besides, the school district is factored into property values. Property values are higher in areas with good schools. Why should MCPS make a change that would reduce the equity (property values) of so many residents in the name of diversity?

I think that you just answered your own question -- assuming that you believe that all children deserve to go to good schools, regardless of how much money their parents have or don't have.

The school is only as good as it's bottom students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the obvious self segregation. Spanish speaking people have moved into certain areas with the most Spanish speaking businesses and services. That's why certain schools are nearly 100% Hispanic (Weller Rd Elem). No one forced them to move to that area. They chose it to be close to their friends, family and support network. And they love their school and community. It's a bit paternalistic for us to assume they would prefer to bus their kids elsewhere to have the benefit of sitting in a classroom with white kids.

Oh please.

They move to places they can afford, as we all do.

I don't buy it. Let's say you have $X to spend on a house. There are various parts of the county where you can get similar housing, so why wouldn't people choose the one that's closer to family, friends, and services?

Same reason there's so many Asians in Rockville. There is similar-priced housing in other parts of the county, but those areas don't have nearly the choice of Asian groceries, restaurants, etc.

Let's say you have $1,600 a month to spend on rent. And you want to live in Bethesda, or Potomac, or Chevy Chase -- you know, where the "good" schools are. Well, too bad for you, because you can't.

I wanna live on Central Park West and go to good public schools. Whaaaaa. What do I do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:those who complain about not being treated equal in terms of schools, housing etc. never mentioned the inequality in tax paying.

Taxes are for fools. Net recipients are where it's at!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are you pro-busing folks actually hoping to accomplish?

Is the goal diversity in schools as an end to itself?

So you think LES kids will get a better education if mixed in with wealthier kids?

Do you think wealthier kids need the "reality check" of a more diverse -- economically and racially -- school?

Does it just bother you on some gut level that there is a disparity of income in MoCo?

Genuine question.

I want my kid in a diverse school.
oh, and I want to only pay $450k for my property, and the corresponding taxes, yet have the county bus my three kids to Wooten instead of our awful local high school. We couldn't afford anything there. Thanks.