County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

I'd argue that every HS should offer either an IB Diploma or:

Actual Honors classes in 9th and 10th, including English and Science

AP Physics 1 & 3, AP Chemistry, APES and AP Biology

AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics

AP World Language in at least 2 languages

APUSH, AP Gov, and AP Comparative Politics

After that, I'd let schools figure out what works for their student body and make sure the Central Office has online courses available for MV and other courses.

BOE meeting last night, the presentation listed the following for all schools at AP or IB level:

Math: pre-calc, Calc AB, Calc BC, stats

English: Seminar, Lang, Lit

Science: Bio, Chem, Physics

Social Studies: US Gov, US His, World, Human Geo, Psych

World Lang: Spanish, French

Tech: CS Principles, CS Java, 1-2 more

Shockingly bare bones.

Y'all would die if your kids had to go to school in 90% of the country.

accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

It's not 20 kids per year. It's 400 kids per year.

Sorry, I was referring to an argument I keep reading here that the Blair magnet has to be county wide because of those top kids who won’t find a cohort in a regional program.

Some classes, such as Functions, have around 20 kids per year, and splitting the magnet up would result in none of the schools having enough people to offer the class. The countywide magnet is how a critical mass of students that would take classes such as Functions is formed, so it's the only way to meet the needs of such students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

It's not 20 kids per year. It's 400 kids per year.

Sorry, I was referring to an argument I keep reading here that the Blair magnet has to be county wide because of those top kids who won’t find a cohort in a regional program.

Some classes, such as Functions, have around 20 kids per year, and splitting the magnet up would result in none of the schools having enough people to offer the class. The countywide magnet is how a critical mass of students that would take classes such as Functions is formed, so it's the only way to meet the needs of such students.

It's not a countywide magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

It's not 20 kids per year. It's 400 kids per year.

Sorry, I was referring to an argument I keep reading here that the Blair magnet has to be county wide because of those top kids who won’t find a cohort in a regional program.

Some classes, such as Functions, have around 20 kids per year, and splitting the magnet up would result in none of the schools having enough people to offer the class. The countywide magnet is how a critical mass of students that would take classes such as Functions is formed, so it's the only way to meet the needs of such students.

Okay, but we live in a society. In a school district of almost 200,000 kids, the function of the educational system should not be to absolutely maximize the potential of 20 kids per year, but rather to serve as many kids as possible. I am fine giving up Functions for 20 kids per year if it means 10,000 kids have access to enriched learning.

[Anonymous]

Ok - I know the magnet parents sound so entitled and annoying AF here. I hear that and I really disliked being near them when my son was in the program at Blair. However, isn’t it the case that really bright kids deserve to have their educational needs met just like kids with learning disabilities? I do think that GT programming has been dwindling not just in MCPS but nationwide. I mean, look at the Honors for All stuff going on. Kids can’t even get a little bit of differentiated instruction in 9th grade English at most MCPS high schools and it is ROUGH. So my point is, magnet parents? Check your tone. You sound like a#%holes. But everyone else? These parents are just like you and trying to get their kids what they need and what they deserve from their public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok - I know the magnet parents sound so entitled and annoying AF here. I hear that and I really disliked being near them when my son was in the program at Blair. However, isn’t it the case that really bright kids deserve to have their educational needs met just like kids with learning disabilities? I do think that GT programming has been dwindling not just in MCPS but nationwide. I mean, look at the Honors for All stuff going on. Kids can’t even get a little bit of differentiated instruction in 9th grade English at most MCPS high schools and it is ROUGH. So my point is, magnet parents? Check your tone. You sound like a#%holes. But everyone else? These parents are just like you and trying to get their kids what they need and what they deserve from their public schools.

If you think kids with learning disabilities are having every single need met by public schools, then you have another think coming. I have a child with special needs, and if I waited for MCPS to meet every single speech, occupational, and physical therapy need my child has, I'd be waiting a long time. No. The school district does the best it can with the resources it has, but I would not want MCPS to hurt other children just so it could maximize every single support my child could possibly need in his school career.

It's the same with parents of hyper-accelerated kids. I wish them all the best, and MCPS owes them a strong education, but it does not owe them "testing the limited of their ability."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok - I know the magnet parents sound so entitled and annoying AF here. I hear that and I really disliked being near them when my son was in the program at Blair. However, isn’t it the case that really bright kids deserve to have their educational needs met just like kids with learning disabilities? I do think that GT programming has been dwindling not just in MCPS but nationwide. I mean, look at the Honors for All stuff going on. Kids can’t even get a little bit of differentiated instruction in 9th grade English at most MCPS high schools and it is ROUGH. So my point is, magnet parents? Check your tone. You sound like a#%holes. But everyone else? These parents are just like you and trying to get their kids what they need and what they deserve from their public schools.

If you think kids with learning disabilities are having every single need met by public schools, then you have another think coming. I have a child with special needs, and if I waited for MCPS to meet every single speech, occupational, and physical therapy need my child has, I'd be waiting a long time. No. The school district does the best it can with the resources it has, but I would not want MCPS to hurt other children just so it could maximize every single support my child could possibly need in his school career.

It's the same with parents of hyper-accelerated kids. I wish them all the best, and MCPS owes them a strong education, but it does not owe them "testing the limited of their ability."

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

I'd argue that every HS should offer either an IB Diploma or:

Actual Honors classes in 9th and 10th, including English and Science

AP Physics 1 & 3, AP Chemistry, APES and AP Biology

AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics

AP World Language in at least 2 languages

APUSH, AP Gov, and AP Comparative Politics

After that, I'd let schools figure out what works for their student body and make sure the Central Office has online courses available for MV and other courses.

BOE meeting last night, the presentation listed the following for all schools at AP or IB level:

Math: pre-calc, Calc AB, Calc BC, stats

English: Seminar, Lang, Lit

Science: Bio, Chem, Physics

Social Studies: US Gov, US His, World, Human Geo, Psych

World Lang: Spanish, French

Tech: CS Principles, CS Java, 1-2 more

Need to add Research to Seminar (enables AP Capstone).

Need to add MVC after Calc.

Should have both Physics Algebra-based APs. (Would be nice to have Physics C, both flavors, but that may be something for a STEM magnet.)

Econ (micro and macro) would be nice, but maybe belongs at a magnet of one or other sort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

No it is just the same Einstein parent over and over I think. Let’s not take the bait. This person is locked into a position.

Not at Einstein. But, why should students with more opportunities take slots away from students who don't have the same opportunities? If you want Blair, move.

I don’t want Blair! Good grief my kid would hate it.

I do think that magnet opportunities should be equitably offered and that students who would benefit should not be excluded because of their zip code.

The presentation last night said the goal is for all schools to have the same core set of advanced courses and for all students to have access to similar magnet offerings. How is that not a good thing?!?!?
Why would hoarding opportunity for something that people claim is so special (Blair STEM) to one geographic region be a good policy?
It isn’t accurate to say DCC doesn’t have advanced courses. Einstein doesn’t have MV. That isn’t solved by limiting Blair STEM to DCC

Instead of focusing on magnet, start by meeting all kids' needs at their home schools, then add specialty programs. If Blair is limited to DCC students, DCC students who need MV can go to Blair or Wheaton, which are the only two schools that offer it. Your kids have tons of opportunities that our kids don't have. First equalize things.

I agree. Maybe in addition to program analysis there needs to be a core offering analysis to ensure equity of offerings at all schools. This seems more important to me than programs. Strengthen all home schools is essential and should happen first. There needs to be better information about what is actually offered at each school rather than vague statements like school A has more than school B. If that is true, it is a problem to solve so a thorough analysis of the problem should happen followed by a cause analysis and a solution proposal.

The program analysis team claims it is doing this. But then you see slides emphasizing the importance of honors courses in all schools without the acknowledgement that honors for all
Means honors for none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

It's not 20 kids per year. It's 400 kids per year.

Sorry, I was referring to an argument I keep reading here that the Blair magnet has to be county wide because of those top kids who won’t find a cohort in a regional program.

Some classes, such as Functions, have around 20 kids per year, and splitting the magnet up would result in none of the schools having enough people to offer the class. The countywide magnet is how a critical mass of students that would take classes such as Functions is formed, so it's the only way to meet the needs of such students.

Okay, but we live in a society. In a school district of almost 200,000 kids, the function of the educational system should not be to absolutely maximize the potential of 20 kids per year, but rather to serve as many kids as possible. I am fine giving up Functions for 20 kids per year if it means 10,000 kids have access to enriched learning.

+1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

I'd argue that every HS should offer either an IB Diploma or:

Actual Honors classes in 9th and 10th, including English and Science

AP Physics 1 & 3, AP Chemistry, APES and AP Biology

AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics

AP World Language in at least 2 languages

APUSH, AP Gov, and AP Comparative Politics

After that, I'd let schools figure out what works for their student body and make sure the Central Office has online courses available for MV and other courses.

BOE meeting last night, the presentation listed the following for all schools at AP or IB level:

Math: pre-calc, Calc AB, Calc BC, stats

English: Seminar, Lang, Lit

Science: Bio, Chem, Physics

Social Studies: US Gov, US His, World, Human Geo, Psych

World Lang: Spanish, French

Tech: CS Principles, CS Java, 1-2 more

AP precalc is not an advanced class. Every school
Schools have honors precalc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok - I know the magnet parents sound so entitled and annoying AF here. I hear that and I really disliked being near them when my son was in the program at Blair. However, isn’t it the case that really bright kids deserve to have their educational needs met just like kids with learning disabilities? I do think that GT programming has been dwindling not just in MCPS but nationwide. I mean, look at the Honors for All stuff going on. Kids can’t even get a little bit of differentiated instruction in 9th grade English at most MCPS high schools and it is ROUGH. So my point is, magnet parents? Check your tone. You sound like a#%holes. But everyone else? These parents are just like you and trying to get their kids what they need and what they deserve from their public schools.

If you think kids with learning disabilities are having every single need met by public schools, then you have another think coming. I have a child with special needs, and if I waited for MCPS to meet every single speech, occupational, and physical therapy need my child has, I'd be waiting a long time. No. The school district does the best it can with the resources it has, but I would not want MCPS to hurt other children just so it could maximize every single support my child could possibly need in his school career.

It's the same with parents of hyper-accelerated kids. I wish them all the best, and MCPS owes them a strong education, but it does not owe them "testing the limited of their ability."

There are some things MCPS could do but doesn't, it's very inflexible with accelerating students (not taking credit from non-MCPS classes), which could be changed relatively easily.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Magnet program courses. Not comparable to the courses generally available at some schools. Functions is available to the entire lower 2/3 of the county in the same way it is available to those in the DCC -- by getting into the Blair SMCS magnet.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

+1 this is high school

+2 several of my family members work in cutting edge medical research. It’s not your high school that gives you the background for this. It’s grad school for the most part

+3 High schoolers are not curing cancer. Yes, sometimes someone is leveraging a family connection to wash beakers in a lab, or to run their own (excellent) experiment, but that's not the same.

+4. HS is supposed to be offering exploration, instilling discovery, building interest and confidence so that kids can continue with their interest and ideas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

No it is just the same Einstein parent over and over I think. Let’s not take the bait. This person is locked into a position.

Not at Einstein. But, why should students with more opportunities take slots away from students who don't have the same opportunities? If you want Blair, move.

I don’t want Blair! Good grief my kid would hate it.

I do think that magnet opportunities should be equitably offered and that students who would benefit should not be excluded because of their zip code.

The presentation last night said the goal is for all schools to have the same core set of advanced courses and for all students to have access to similar magnet offerings. How is that not a good thing?!?!?
Why would hoarding opportunity for something that people claim is so special (Blair STEM) to one geographic region be a good policy?
It isn’t accurate to say DCC doesn’t have advanced courses. Einstein doesn’t have MV. That isn’t solved by limiting Blair STEM to DCC

Instead of focusing on magnet, start by meeting all kids' needs at their home schools, then add specialty programs. If Blair is limited to DCC students, DCC students who need MV can go to Blair or Wheaton, which are the only two schools that offer it. Your kids have tons of opportunities that our kids don't have. First equalize things.

I agree. Maybe in addition to program analysis there needs to be a core offering analysis to ensure equity of offerings at all schools. This seems more important to me than programs. Strengthen all home schools is essential and should happen first. There needs to be better information about what is actually offered at each school rather than vague statements like school A has more than school B. If that is true, it is a problem to solve so a thorough analysis of the problem should happen followed by a cause analysis and a solution proposal.

The program analysis team claims it is doing this. But then you see slides emphasizing the importance of honors courses in all schools without the acknowledgement that honors for all
Means honors for none.

There's a huge difference between honors for all (all students go to the same course, which is termed "honors") and ensuring honors classes are offered at all schools (not all students go to the same course, but any qualified student gets the honors opportunity).

In the first, due to difficulties with employing differentiation in large classes with limited resources/training, schools with small honors-level student cohorts typically provide less of the honors experience (needing to dedicate most of the time to the bulk of the class) than at schools with larger honors-level student cohorts (where the bulk of the time can be spent on them, or better if the classes, themselves, get cohorted by ability despite having the same title).