County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

I'd argue that every HS should offer either an IB Diploma or:

Actual Honors classes in 9th and 10th, including English and Science

AP Physics 1 & 3, AP Chemistry, APES and AP Biology

AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics

AP World Language in at least 2 languages

APUSH, AP Gov, and AP Comparative Politics

After that, I'd let schools figure out what works for their student body and make sure the Central Office has online courses available for MV and other courses.

BOE meeting last night, the presentation listed the following for all schools at AP or IB level:

Math: pre-calc, Calc AB, Calc BC, stats

English: Seminar, Lang, Lit

Science: Bio, Chem, Physics

Social Studies: US Gov, US His, World, Human Geo, Psych

World Lang: Spanish, French

Tech: CS Principles, CS Java, 1-2 more

Shockingly bare bones.

Don't all MCPS schools already have these? I've in favor of expanding access, but where is the enrichment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

I'd argue that every HS should offer either an IB Diploma or:

Actual Honors classes in 9th and 10th, including English and Science

AP Physics 1 & 3, AP Chemistry, APES and AP Biology

AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics

AP World Language in at least 2 languages

APUSH, AP Gov, and AP Comparative Politics

After that, I'd let schools figure out what works for their student body and make sure the Central Office has online courses available for MV and other courses.

BOE meeting last night, the presentation listed the following for all schools at AP or IB level:

Math: pre-calc, Calc AB, Calc BC, stats

English: Seminar, Lang, Lit

Science: Bio, Chem, Physics

Social Studies: US Gov, US His, World, Human Geo, Psych

World Lang: Spanish, French

Tech: CS Principles, CS Java, 1-2 more

Shockingly bare bones.

Y'all would die if your kids had to go to school in 90% of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

+1 this is high school

If MCPS had very rigorous selection criteria that were shown to be correlated with that kind of success, sure. But most of their selection is based on MAP tests and some report card grades which are mostly As for everyone which are not the best indicator of giftedness. I would feel much better about programs that served more kids with enrichment content than concentrating all their resources on a lucky few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

+1 this is high school

+2 several of my family members work in cutting edge medical research. It’s not your high school that gives you the background for this. It’s grad school for the most part

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

+1 this is high school

+2 several of my family members work in cutting edge medical research. It’s not your high school that gives you the background for this. It’s grad school for the most part

+3 High schoolers are not curing cancer. Yes, sometimes someone is leveraging a family connection to wash beakers in a lab, or to run their own (excellent) experiment, but that's not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

It's not 20 kids per year. It's 400 kids per year.

Sorry, I was referring to an argument I keep reading here that the Blair magnet has to be county wide because of those top kids who won’t find a cohort in a regional program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

What would be wrong with starting pre-algebra in grade 7?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent who's child is currently at a magnet program at Poolesville that is not in that region, I assume current students will be able to finish the programs they began... but I would like to hear reassurance of that fact.

I also have a child at Poolesville, does anyone know the answer to PP question?

Of course, I don't know either. I have a child at Blair, but I would be surprised if this change weren't retroactive so that it would only affect 2027 and beyond.

They would have to have plans for retroactive placement (or continuity suggested by the poster at the beginning of this sub-thread) all ready for applications at the beginning of October this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Not all kids want to go to Wheaton. Its a good school but its also lacking in other areas. Why not just offer MV at all schools or offer it virtually?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

How does this make sense to get rid of Geometry as a stand alone class?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

I'd argue that every HS should offer either an IB Diploma or:

Actual Honors classes in 9th and 10th, including English and Science

AP Physics 1 & 3, AP Chemistry, APES and AP Biology

AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics

AP World Language in at least 2 languages

APUSH, AP Gov, and AP Comparative Politics

After that, I'd let schools figure out what works for their student body and make sure the Central Office has online courses available for MV and other courses.

BOE meeting last night, the presentation listed the following for all schools at AP or IB level:

Math: pre-calc, Calc AB, Calc BC, stats

English: Seminar, Lang, Lit

Science: Bio, Chem, Physics

Social Studies: US Gov, US His, World, Human Geo, Psych

World Lang: Spanish, French

Tech: CS Principles, CS Java, 1-2 more

Shockingly bare bones.

Don't all MCPS schools already have these? I've in favor of expanding access, but where is the enrichment?

No, they don't. That's the problem. AP Pre-Cal is a new class to AP so only a few schools have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

W schools have advanced offerings. DCC students don't. If you cannot live in the community as you need to be in a good area, why would you send your kid to blair?

What advanced offerings do W schools have that DCC students do not have?

Tons, look at the course offerings for 25-26 on each school's website.

I have. I see a lot in common (AP Calc BC and Stats) and some differences (MV in some DCC but not all), including advanced courses offered in the DCC that are not
offered elsewhere (Functions, various engineering classes).

Those are only offered at Wheaton and Blair. Most offer BC and Stats.

That is what the pp said.

So I guess the question becomes: what is the list of advanced classes that every high school in MCPS should have? There will be differences in electives between schools but it seems the community should help shape what the essential list of advanced core classes is and hold MCPS accountable for ensuring that they run every year in all high schools.

Does this list include MV? Or is AP Calc BC and AP Stats suffice for the core list?

What is the list?

All schools should have MV and Linear Algebra, as in DCC some schools allow students to start Algebra in 6th.

No, they shouldn't. In some schools, there is not enough demand for those classes. It's a waste of resource.

Its not a waste of resources and more kids may be drawn to these schools if more is offered to them. They wouldn't feel the pressure to leave their home schools. They leave because what they need isn't offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were in charge I’d take Wheaton biomed and move it to crown with expanded seats (100-125). Crown is in the Shady Grove life Sciences corridor and near USG so there could be some great partner programs.

Then expand Wheaton engineering.

Then you’d have four flagship stem programs in different parts of the county.

That’s a good idea. I feel these MCPS design team doesn’t know what they’re doing. Seems they are doing more harm than good.

They definitely do not know what they are doing.