County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

But very few kids can access that program. Too many qualified kids for too few spots. And it implies an hour long bus ride for many. Count me in for team "watering down" into country wide magnet-then maybe at least my kid would get some advanced programming rather than elite programming for a precious few. Your Young Sheldon can take college classes if they find MCPS mini-magnets that boring.

Take a look at the baseline science, IT, and math programs being proposed in the regional high schools. It's anemic - no mini-magnets coming out of this model. Check the 6.24.25 BOE meeting video at 6:55 pm and you can take a look at the course offerings in the slide show that was presented.

The list of course offerings in the presentation is what they're saying they'll start guaranteeing to be offered at 100% of MCPS high schools. The regional magnets would presumably have far more course offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

That's nonsense. MCPS is comparable in size to FCPS and TJ has close to 600 students per grade. There's no reason MCPS couldn't fill 6 regional mangets with 100 students each.

The problem is that MCPS currently wants to split it into 6 regions. It'll never work. If they decide to model after TJ and have one big centralized program, then I'd be more for it. They're going to end up irrevocably ruining the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

You don't need to look at the current make up, you need to look at the waitlisted kids. Plenty of DCC smart kids to take the slots. W schools have upper level classes and families moved there for a reason. They should not take up DCC slots.

I get it now. DCC wants more Blair seats so they are trying to exclude W students.

No it is just the same Einstein parent over and over I think. Let’s not take the bait. This person is locked into a position.

Not at Einstein. But, why should students with more opportunities take slots away from students who don't have the same opportunities? If you want Blair, move.

I don’t want Blair! Good grief my kid would hate it.

I do think that magnet opportunities should be equitably offered and that students who would benefit should not be excluded because of their zip code.

The presentation last night said the goal is for all schools to have the same core set of advanced courses and for all students to have access to similar magnet offerings. How is that not a good thing?!?!?
Why would hoarding opportunity for something that people claim is so special (Blair STEM) to one geographic region be a good policy?
It isn’t accurate to say DCC doesn’t have advanced courses. Einstein doesn’t have MV. That isn’t solved by limiting Blair STEM to DCC

Instead of focusing on magnet, start by meeting all kids' needs at their home schools, then add specialty programs. If Blair is limited to DCC students, DCC students who need MV can go to Blair or Wheaton, which are the only two schools that offer it. Your kids have tons of opportunities that our kids don't have. First equalize things.

I agree. Maybe in addition to program analysis there needs to be a core offering analysis to ensure equity of offerings at all schools. This seems more important to me than programs. Strengthen all home schools is essential and should happen first. There needs to be better information about what is actually offered at each school rather than vague statements like school A has more than school B. If that is true, it is a problem to solve so a thorough analysis of the problem should happen followed by a cause analysis and a solution proposal.

The program analysis team claims it is doing this. But then you see slides emphasizing the importance of honors courses in all schools without the acknowledgement that honors for all
Means honors for none.

They claim the choice program teams already has some of the information like application #, enrollment data, etc. They also need to compare programs so that we know which programs across schools are similar. I've yet to understand why they haven't added the normal choice program description document to the program analysis website. That would at least give people an idea of what programs are out there.

They also need to provide info on what programs are likely to be sunset (if any) so they can offer a plan on how it will be effectively sunset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

That's nonsense. MCPS is comparable in size to FCPS and TJ has close to 600 students per grade. There's no reason MCPS couldn't fill 6 regional mangets with 100 students each.

The problem is that MCPS currently wants to split it into 6 regions. It'll never work. If they decide to model after TJ and have one big centralized program, then I'd be more for it. They're going to end up irrevocably ruining the program.

Why? 6 regions allows opportunity for both students and teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

That's nonsense. MCPS is comparable in size to FCPS and TJ has close to 600 students per grade. There's no reason MCPS couldn't fill 6 regional mangets with 100 students each.

The problem is that MCPS currently wants to split it into 6 regions. It'll never work. If they decide to model after TJ and have one big centralized program, then I'd be more for it. They're going to end up irrevocably ruining the program.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

What would be wrong with starting pre-algebra in grade 7?

That 2-year integrated Algebra is going to be interested as most curriculum is setup for 3-year integrated algebra. And most people think kids need more time for Algebra/Geometry/Trig integration and application, not less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

That's nonsense. MCPS is comparable in size to FCPS and TJ has close to 600 students per grade. There's no reason MCPS couldn't fill 6 regional mangets with 100 students each.

The problem is that MCPS currently wants to split it into 6 regions. It'll never work. If they decide to model after TJ and have one big centralized program, then I'd be more for it. They're going to end up irrevocably ruining the program.

Why? 6 regions allows opportunity for both students and teachers.

6 is too fragmented. Maybe 3 is better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

What would be wrong with starting pre-algebra in grade 7?

That 2-year integrated Algebra is going to be interested as most curriculum is setup for 3-year integrated algebra. And most people think kids need more time for Algebra/Geometry/Trig integration and application, not less.

Mscps has done math poorly for years. This sounds terrible condensing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

That's nonsense. MCPS is comparable in size to FCPS and TJ has close to 600 students per grade. There's no reason MCPS couldn't fill 6 regional mangets with 100 students each.

The problem is that MCPS currently wants to split it into 6 regions. It'll never work. If they decide to model after TJ and have one big centralized program, then I'd be more for it. They're going to end up irrevocably ruining the program.

County is too spread out. Want TJ, move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

What would be wrong with starting pre-algebra in grade 7?

PreAlgebra is the name of the 6th grade class that was recently finalized to follow Math 5/6 ("Compacted" math in 5th grade) for many, if not most (and for some having been in Math 5 but still scoring high enough to be identified for the Math/Science/CS middle school lottery).

Under the old Curriculum 2.0, the similar class was called AIM (and the name persisted at some MS's even as the course evolved towards the new curriculum).

There are other pre-Algebra pathways (Math 6/7/8, AMP6+/7+), but there are, and will continue to be, many on the PreAlgebra in 6th path, and appropriately so for many of those, even as MCPS expresses concern for some and may look to tighten placement criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

It's not 20 kids per year. It's 400 kids per year.

Sorry, I was referring to an argument I keep reading here that the Blair magnet has to be county wide because of those top kids who won’t find a cohort in a regional program.

Some classes, such as Functions, have around 20 kids per year, and splitting the magnet up would result in none of the schools having enough people to offer the class. The countywide magnet is how a critical mass of students that would take classes such as Functions is formed, so it's the only way to meet the needs of such students.

Why couldn't this be addressed by having Blair's program be a regional/countywide hybrid where there are a few dozen spots available for the top out-of-boundary kids so there's still a critical mass there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

How does this make sense to get rid of Geometry as a stand alone class?

Ask the Maryland State Department of Education. They are the ones who have adopted the new paradigm for all MD students. MCPS has to implement it, but was not the agency making the decision.

The idea of integrated Algebra (blending in Geometry with Algebra 1 & 2 concepts) has been around for a while, as it avoids the learning loss of the 1-year gap between Algebra 1 & Algebra 2. Some states already adopted it, but did so as a 3-year sequence, relatively fully duplicating the content of the original 3 courses. Several curriculum providers have designed such.

Maryland decided to go with a trimmed 2-year sequence as the predecessor to one of 4 later pathways (each focused on supporting a STEM-focused academic or basket-of-careers goal). Many might only recognize one of these pathways -- the more academic one toward Calculus -- and a very large number of MCPS students will be pursuing that. This doesn't mean the other pathways are not appropriate or of value, but the Montgomery County population will gravitate towards that considered most academically rigorous for more than just those interested in STEM.

PS -- Because of the content trimmed, MCPS probably will need to plus-up PreCalc with some of that for those taking the Calc path. Those modules were less relevant to the other 3 paths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

What would be wrong with starting pre-algebra in grade 7?

That 2-year integrated Algebra is going to be interested as most curriculum is setup for 3-year integrated algebra. And most people think kids need more time for Algebra/Geometry/Trig integration and application, not less.

Mscps has done math poorly for years. This sounds terrible condensing it.

Its a state driving plan not an MCPS plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So
What does that mean?

It effectively means the end of the countywide magnets. I really can't understand who in their right mind in MCPS would want to do this.

The people that understand we can’t afford county wide programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

The school district should release data on the number of students applying to Blair magnet who have the likely capacity to succeed in the program, as well as zip code information on where they live. They should do this for RMIB, Einstein's VAC, and Wheaton's Academy of Engineering as well.

My student wasn't in TMPS' magnet nor Blair's magnet, but he benefitted from attending schools with these programs. He completed geometry in 8th grade and took higher level math at Blair because of the magnet' presence at the schools.

If I get sick with cancer, my child won't treat me, but it could be that I will live longer because a Blair magnet alumni helped develop effective treatments or even a cure. That is the type of thing that happens when you have students with high ability provided access to very rigorous curriculum in a specialized program. It's unlikely that a truly rigorous magnet will have a sufficient cohort in any one region; none will be the type of flagship program that Blair is.

How dramatic. Or they could attend excellent colleges and grad schools that train them to do that sort of life-saving work.

Why are you against having an outstanding program for highly able students?

Absolutely no one is against this. Some people do not think that the needs of 20 kids per year exceed the needs of the many who would benefit from regional programming.

+1 Not to mention that the number of kids who "need" Linear Algebra to graduate, AND who are not in one of the STEM magnets already in existence or coming into existence, is going to be very small. Why not just guarantee every kid on that path a spot at "regular" Wheaton if they don't make the cut for one of the STEM magnets. All five of those kids will be served, and the problem will be resolved. Much better than rolling out Linear and MV for one kid per school across the county.

Lots of kids. Lots:

6th PreAlgebra (a significant percentage are placed here; a very few are placed higher)

7th Integrated Algebra 1 (look it up -- this is coming for all students in MD beginning in 27-28)

8th Integrated Algebra 2 (ditto -- note these two take the year-placement-progression of three prior courses: Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2)

9th PreCalculus (for those continuing on the more academic of the 4 prescribed MD pathways, which will be the significant majority of those taking PreAlgebra in 6th)

10th Calc (AP Calc BC for most of those)

11th Multivariable Calculus (see explanatory post beginning with "Yep" on page 11 of the BOE meeting thread as to why this continuity is important)

12th would be nice to have Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, but this is the point where a break from the progression to take AP Stats might make sense (and be both easier to staff and allow combination with cohorts accessing AP Stats on a non-Calc BC pathway)

And some of those starting Integrated Algebra in 8th (together with the above likely making a majority of MCPS students) who find a mathematics stride a bit later than their peers may well also desire the path of Calc BC followed by MVC (only in 11th and 12th, respectively, instead of 10th & 11th). There will be some who opt for a slower 2-year progression of Calc AB and Calc BC, of course, or one of the Calcs and then AP Stats, as above, but these shouldn't be the only in-school option, and really can't be, given the needs of those above. This is all outside of any math-oriented magnet, which may have even more rigorous courses/pathways.

Bottom line -- with the state shift to the 2-year Integrated Algebra, MVC should be part of the set of classes offered in person at all MCPS high schools.

What would be wrong with starting pre-algebra in grade 7?

That 2-year integrated Algebra is going to be interested as most curriculum is setup for 3-year integrated algebra. And most people think kids need more time for Algebra/Geometry/Trig integration and application, not less.

Mscps has done math poorly for years. This sounds terrible condensing it.

It's an MSDE (state) thing, though MCPS has to make it happen. A lot of Trig and some other stuff will be trimmed. The idea is that those concepts aren't truly necessary to 3 of the 4 post-Integrated Algebra pathways they defined, and that school systems can work that content back in for the Calc pathway (that may be difficult, of course).