Summer swim brings out the crazy

[Anonymous]

S&T should not be judging their kid in a race. Timers should not be timing their kid in a race.

Kids should be required to attend a set number of practices per week to qualify to swim in meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:S&T should not be judging their kid in a race. Timers should not be timing their kid in a race.

Kids should be required to attend a set number of practices per week to qualify to swim in meets.

That may be idea, but the reality is takes volunteers to run a meet. Hard enough to find timers. Harder to find officials. Some pools impose a volunteer tax (love or hate). As a volunteer S&T, you're never fixated on any single kid and instead are scanning your lanes. So maybe the the kid did something obvious to the crowd, but right at that moment you're scanning else where. So maybe cut some slack? It's happened to me before. That said, I've also DQ-ed my own kid before, too, when they were 10U.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

Perhaps, there needs to be time trials for some of the parents.


DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

Perhaps, there needs to be time trials for some of the parents.

[Anonymous]

So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

I completely agree, and I think it’s important for all of us to acknowledge that summer swim comes with its share of politics and cliques. If a strong swimmer ends up on the losing end of a time discrepancy or a questionable lane placement, it’s a chance to teach our kids valuable life lessons. These situations reflect challenges they’ll face as they grow, and while it’s difficult as parents, complaining about the politics can sometimes backfire and worsen the situation.

That said, the NVSL could benefit from implementing a standardized operating procedure (SOP) for running B Meets and time trials, even if it involves mixing genders. The frequent no-shows at these meets often lead to open lanes, but there should be greater transparency about heat sheets and lane assignments. Reps should communicate clearly in advance via email about how the meet will be organized. If randomness is part of the process, parents can then make an informed decision about whether their child should participate. Transparency and consistency would go a long way in improving the overall experience for everyone involved..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:S&T should not be judging their kid in a race. Timers should not be timing their kid in a race.

Kids should be required to attend a set number of practices per week to qualify to swim in meets.

OK, so I assume you yourself are S&T _for a different club_ to guarantee that you will never have to judge your own kid? I know multiple S&Ts who have DQd their own kids.

[Anonymous]

Here is what I see at our large pool (D1-D3). By the end of about 13-14, most of the non-A meet swimmers have dropped out. And drop off already starting at 11-12. When they are all young, there are plenty of kids in both buckets...A meet kids, B meet kids, and it's not terribly cliquey yet. The facade of we're all one team with a great culture where everyone feels included is easier to pull off when they're little. For that reason, I wish we were at a lower level pool where everyone just swam on Saturday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

The Springfield-Burke B Meet (league?) does not have a B meet the Monday after time trials. B Meets are not regulated or governed by NVSL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

[Anonymous]

Were you a B meet swimmer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

The catch is that the faster you swim, the more meets you get to attend. It works that way all the way up to the Olympics. And it sucks in winter club when a kid has a birthday and changes age groups: yesterday they were at the top of the heap and tomorrow they can't race the fun meet with all their friends that they've practiced months for because they don't have the cut for the next age up.

Even though swimming pits athletes against one another as individuals this way, the coaches, team reps, and other enthusiastic supporters of a successful summer swim team genuinely want the kids to have a good time, learn to be supportive of one another, and feel part of the team. If you are hooked on the idea that only the A meets and the A meet kids matter, then I'm sorry that you seem to have connected with a team that isn't succeeding in its messaging and culture.

And yes, there are kids who leave swim because it turns out that their talents and their interests lie elsewhere. And a bunch of them come back and swim every summer anyway, and they have a great time. Some of them come to A meets they aren't swimming just to be with the team and with their friends.

[Anonymous]

Most stroke and turn people I know are way harder on their own kids. I’ve heard a lot of nonsense over the years but I think it’s people assuming the worst.

The only issue I’ve ever seen is a S&T official DQing practically every kid for something that wasn’t illegal. But they were equal about it- dq’ed both teams, lol. That was a weird one, because they obviously thought they were right (and everyone else was wrong).

Most gossip I’ve heard about teams that are doing weird timing or officiating is clearly total bull. I don’t know why normal people get dragged into this kind of conspiracy nonsense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

The Springfield-Burke B Meet (league?) does not have a B meet the Monday after time trials. B Meets are not regulated or governed by NVSL.

So do coaches swim a lot of kids without times at the first A meet? We always have a B meet the Monday after time trials because a lot of kids miss time trials due to other sports wrapping up. A lot of kids will miss this year because SATs are that day.