School Board Forum on "Boundary and Capacity"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If done wrong, we irreparably f up FCPS forever. No thanks.

FCPS is a shadow of its former self. Some pyramids have been cast aside as lost causes by the School Board. They made things worse in many cases and concentrated poverty. But hey, you get yours.

It's unfortunate FCPS made some things worse through boundary changes that, at least in retrospect, were ill-advised. Annandale is the best example. In other cases, they didn't change boundaries and really aren't responsible for how residential areas changed over time.

But you do realize that you're suggesting that FCPS - which in many cases made things worse - is somehow now going to make things better when that's rarely been their track record. It shouldn't surprise you if others just hunker down and hope they don't make even more things worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If done wrong, we irreparably f up FCPS forever. No thanks.

FCPS is a shadow of its former self. Some pyramids have been cast aside as lost causes by the School Board. They made things worse in many cases and concentrated poverty. But hey, you get yours.

The narratives you tell yourself are truly fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If done wrong, we irreparably f up FCPS forever. No thanks.

FCPS is a shadow of its former self. Some pyramids have been cast aside as lost causes by the School Board. They made things worse in many cases and concentrated poverty. But hey, you get yours.

The narratives you tell yourself are truly fascinating.

+1
I don’t think the PP has had much experience reading a map or understanding geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If done wrong, we irreparably f up FCPS forever. No thanks.

FCPS is a shadow of its former self. Some pyramids have been cast aside as lost causes by the School Board. They made things worse in many cases and concentrated poverty. But hey, you get yours.

The narratives you tell yourself are truly fascinating.

+1
I don’t think the PP has had much experience reading a map or understanding geography.

PP correctly pointed out that various School Boards have made decisions relating to boundaries and facilities in recent years that have had the effect of increasing disparities among schools.

I part company in thinking the very people (or people from the same party) responsible for doing so are somehow magically going to change course or that they could make everything right even if they tried. They have a lot of appetite for meddling and only a little aptitude for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If done wrong, we irreparably f up FCPS forever. No thanks.

FCPS is a shadow of its former self. Some pyramids have been cast aside as lost causes by the School Board. They made things worse in many cases and concentrated poverty. But hey, you get yours.

The narratives you tell yourself are truly fascinating.

Enroll your kids at Mt. Vernon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

ITA with everything except that it is majority immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dunn Loring should have been closed years ago. Its a decrepit embarrassment.

It hasn't been used as a school for many years, but it's a beautiful building that will now been torn down and replaced with a totally unnecessary school, rather than renovated.

If you're at Stenwood and Freedom Hill in particular, get ready to see your schools torn apart. And there are a whole host of other schools that will have to undergo cascading boundary changes because they can't just move kids to Dunn Loring from those two schools and leave them with a critical mass of kids. Frisch is counting on being elsewhere when the Dunn Loring mess really hits the fan.

DP. It is a beautiful building and I wish they would design new schools in that model instead of the god-awful modern buildings they currently build. Kind of off-topic, but it really bothers me.

Shrevewood parent here. I was so disgusted to see that they are tearing it down instead of gutting it and adding on. Also disgusted that they are building this school instead of the simple boundary adjustment we asked for (and no longer need because so many families have left since Covid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

There’s scant evidence these changes would be “done right.”

We currently have an ES in Herndon with 600 kids and no projected growth getting built out to 1000 seats. We have Frisch ramming through a 1000-seat brand new elementary school in Dunn Loring surrounded by multiple under-enrolled schools. Overcrowding high schools, on the other hand, get overlooked and told there’s not enough money.

No one on the School Board challenges any of this and FCPS staff plow ahead because they think it’s what the School Board wants.

And these are the people you think can pull off county-wide changes? At this point, we need to engage in damage control, not give them a mandate to make an even bigger hash of things.

What school???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dunn Loring should have been closed years ago. Its a decrepit embarrassment.

It hasn't been used as a school for many years, but it's a beautiful building that will now been torn down and replaced with a totally unnecessary school, rather than renovated.

If you're at Stenwood and Freedom Hill in particular, get ready to see your schools torn apart. And there are a whole host of other schools that will have to undergo cascading boundary changes because they can't just move kids to Dunn Loring from those two schools and leave them with a critical mass of kids. Frisch is counting on being elsewhere when the Dunn Loring mess really hits the fan.

DP. It is a beautiful building and I wish they would design new schools in that model instead of the god-awful modern buildings they currently build. Kind of off-topic, but it really bothers me.

Shrevewood parent here. I was so disgusted to see that they are tearing it down instead of gutting it and adding on. Also disgusted that they are building this school instead of the simple boundary adjustment we asked for (and no longer need because so many families have left since Covid).

Agree completely that this school is not needed. FCPS usually guts and renovates, but for some reason they want to tear down this charming school. Makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dunn Loring should have been closed years ago. Its a decrepit embarrassment.

It hasn't been used as a school for many years, but it's a beautiful building that will now been torn down and replaced with a totally unnecessary school, rather than renovated.

If you're at Stenwood and Freedom Hill in particular, get ready to see your schools torn apart. And there are a whole host of other schools that will have to undergo cascading boundary changes because they can't just move kids to Dunn Loring from those two schools and leave them with a critical mass of kids. Frisch is counting on being elsewhere when the Dunn Loring mess really hits the fan.

DP. It is a beautiful building and I wish they would design new schools in that model instead of the god-awful modern buildings they currently build. Kind of off-topic, but it really bothers me.

Shrevewood parent here. I was so disgusted to see that they are tearing it down instead of gutting it and adding on. Also disgusted that they are building this school instead of the simple boundary adjustment we asked for (and no longer need because so many families have left since Covid).

Many of the following boundary changes will end up occurring due to locating this school where it's not needed:

Shrevewood to Stenwood.

Stenwood to Dunn Loring.

Freedom Hill to Dunn Loring.

Vienna to Dunn Loring.

Cunningham Park to Stenwood or Dunn Loring.

Westbriar to Freedom Hill.

Spring Hill to Westbriar.

Churchill Road to Spring Hill.

[Anonymous]

It's not a bad deal if you don't have kids in school already and you're getting a brand-new school but if you're just getting shuffled around to back-fill vacancies created at other schools in the process it is going to suck big time.

So if you get moved out of Stenwood or Freedom Hill to a brand-new school at Dunn Loring, fantastic, but if you're getting moved out of Shrevewood to Stenwood, or out of Westbriar to Freedom Hill, or out of Spring Hill to Westbriar, all to make the under-enrollment numbers look slightly less ridiculous, you'll be asking WTF, especially if you have older kids at one of those schools.

But I'm sure Frisch counts on being in Richmond by the time the sh*t really hits the fan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

There’s scant evidence these changes would be “done right.”

We currently have an ES in Herndon with 600 kids and no projected growth getting built out to 1000 seats. We have Frisch ramming through a 1000-seat brand new elementary school in Dunn Loring surrounded by multiple under-enrolled schools. Overcrowding high schools, on the other hand, get overlooked and told there’s not enough money.

No one on the School Board challenges any of this and FCPS staff plow ahead because they think it’s what the School Board wants.

And these are the people you think can pull off county-wide changes? At this point, we need to engage in damage control, not give them a mandate to make an even bigger hash of things.

What school???

Fox Mill has about 650-700 kids and was just renovated, no idea about the capacity at the school now. Crossfield has about 600 kids and is being renovated, no idea about the capacity. Both are in the Herndon/Reston area but are technically considered Oak Hill based on their zip code.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If they change enough boundaries at the same time grandfathering goes out the window because they won’t have enough buses to run routes to multiple schools from the same time.

And you seem to be inferring that they will prioritize ending split feeders when they’ve created more split feeders relatively recently on purpose (for example, turning Thoreau into a 3-way split feeder).

The vast majority of people do not want boundaries changed, but instead for FCPS to prioritize adding capacity at the schools that need it. These new SB members did not tout during their campaigns that their goal would be to reshuffle kids around the entire county in the name of equity, efficiency, or whatever other buzzword they might come up with.

I would prefer that the school redistrict and use the space that they have. If there are parts of the county where over crowding cannot be mitigated with a boundary shift then add capacity at those schools. But I don't think there are too many places where that is actually the case. As for grandfathering, I think that FCPS can allow kids to remain at schools but parents become responsible for providing transportation.

I would love for the AAP Centers to go away. I would love for FCPS to do something about the split feeders. I think doing a county wide redistricting would cause a decent amount of upheaval all at once, which I doubt the board is willing to tolerate, but that it would probably be the least painful way of addressing the multitude of issues with over crowding and under capacity schools because everyone is being hit at once instead of the selective targeting of specific communities.

These may be your personal preferences but it’s not what community residents made clear they want when the consultants retained by FCPS engaged in outreach. But, of course, if the School Board wants to reshuffle kids all over the county, whether in the name of equity or otherwise, they’ll pretend this outreach never occurred.

You mean the people who pay enough attention to fill out a survey or think it is important to fill out a survey, which conveniently enough are people with more money and tend to be white or Asian. The same people who want to keep their kids in their current schools because they don’t want their home values to drop or to have to deal with the issues that come with additional students who are ELL or poor.

Let’s not pretend that the survey was in any way shape or form representative of the population of FCPS.

I would be fine if my child’s school stays the same, we are at SLHS and I think it is a good school. He will be fine there. I would guess that a boundary change would not move him to another school. If it does, we will decide what we want to do when that happens.

I don’t think that it will happen because I think the board is too cowardly to take any real action on boundaries but I think it is a waste of money to build mega schools instead of shifting the boundaries and making use of the space that we have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

There’s scant evidence these changes would be “done right.”

We currently have an ES in Herndon with 600 kids and no projected growth getting built out to 1000 seats. We have Frisch ramming through a 1000-seat brand new elementary school in Dunn Loring surrounded by multiple under-enrolled schools. Overcrowding high schools, on the other hand, get overlooked and told there’s not enough money.

No one on the School Board challenges any of this and FCPS staff plow ahead because they think it’s what the School Board wants.

And these are the people you think can pull off county-wide changes? At this point, we need to engage in damage control, not give them a mandate to make an even bigger hash of things.

What school???

Fox Mill has about 650-700 kids and was just renovated, no idea about the capacity at the school now. Crossfield has about 600 kids and is being renovated, no idea about the capacity. Both are in the Herndon/Reston area but are technically considered Oak Hill based on their zip code.

Dranesville ES has about 600 kids and the five-year projection is 567 students. But it's being built out to 1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need real change. The western school pyramid is comprised mostly of first and second generation immigrants, and have been ignored forever. Even the school signal traffic light is missing on Centreville road for years since they widened road and not one single politician has cared to restore the flashing lights for an elementary school (Floris) for basic traffic safety. It’s an underrepresented community that is significantly neglected. No school board member ever fights to represent this community.

I think most people on this board would be fine with restoring a traffic light. A lot less people would be down for redistricting and the immense toll that would entail for students. Yours seems to be a burn-it-all-down argument.

If done right, the toll on kids should be negligible. First of all grandfathering periods are long enough that HS kids are entirely unaffected, and transitions occur when they normally would like ES to MS and MS to HS. Siblings have priority for transfers if that's a concern. Fixing the mess of split feeders means kids are more likely to stay with friends they've had since ES. More efficient bus routes means more sleep.

If they change enough boundaries at the same time grandfathering goes out the window because they won’t have enough buses to run routes to multiple schools from the same time.

And you seem to be inferring that they will prioritize ending split feeders when they’ve created more split feeders relatively recently on purpose (for example, turning Thoreau into a 3-way split feeder).

The vast majority of people do not want boundaries changed, but instead for FCPS to prioritize adding capacity at the schools that need it. These new SB members did not tout during their campaigns that their goal would be to reshuffle kids around the entire county in the name of equity, efficiency, or whatever other buzzword they might come up with.

I would prefer that the school redistrict and use the space that they have. If there are parts of the county where over crowding cannot be mitigated with a boundary shift then add capacity at those schools. But I don't think there are too many places where that is actually the case. As for grandfathering, I think that FCPS can allow kids to remain at schools but parents become responsible for providing transportation.

I would love for the AAP Centers to go away. I would love for FCPS to do something about the split feeders. I think doing a county wide redistricting would cause a decent amount of upheaval all at once, which I doubt the board is willing to tolerate, but that it would probably be the least painful way of addressing the multitude of issues with over crowding and under capacity schools because everyone is being hit at once instead of the selective targeting of specific communities.

These may be your personal preferences but it’s not what community residents made clear they want when the consultants retained by FCPS engaged in outreach. But, of course, if the School Board wants to reshuffle kids all over the county, whether in the name of equity or otherwise, they’ll pretend this outreach never occurred.

You mean the people who pay enough attention to fill out a survey or think it is important to fill out a survey, which conveniently enough are people with more money and tend to be white or Asian. The same people who want to keep their kids in their current schools because they don’t want their home values to drop or to have to deal with the issues that come with additional students who are ELL or poor.

Let’s not pretend that the survey was in any way shape or form representative of the population of FCPS.

I would be fine if my child’s school stays the same, we are at SLHS and I think it is a good school. He will be fine there. I would guess that a boundary change would not move him to another school. If it does, we will decide what we want to do when that happens.

I don’t think that it will happen because I think the board is too cowardly to take any real action on boundaries but I think it is a waste of money to build mega schools instead of shifting the boundaries and making use of the space that we have.

I don't put a lot of weight on the views of people at schools like South Lakes that got big expansions (and, in South Lakes' case, one outside the renovation queue) to a design capacity of over 2700 kids, and then advocate to redistrict kids at other schools that would benefit from additional capacity. As you note, your kid is probably going to be "fine," but others may not be so fortunate.