Mean girls mean moms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So girls will be girls?

It’s ok to be mean?

Are you best friends with everyone you’ve ever met?

Stop deflecting and answer the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mean is subjective. What exactly are the girls and moms doing you find to be so mean, OP?

- Excluding other girls
- Making fun of other girls or boys (verbally or in notes/pictures that are passed around the classroom)
- Telling kids not to play with or be friends with certain girls or boys.

It feels weird to be an adult referring to a 9 year old as a “mean girl.” I don’t think they are bad kids. They are just navigating the culture of the classroom in a way that works best for them.
I don’t think the moms are bad people either. They don’t deliberately set out to hurt people. They just see the world in terms of these social hierarchies and are trying to come out on top.

Find me the kids and adults including everyone, never making fun of anyone, playing with everyone, and I’ll find you people who are only being nice on the surface (called out as mean by someone earlier on this thread) or a doormat who doesn’t walk away when hurt by someone else being mean.

Find me the kid telling everyone to play with everyone, and I’ll show you a girl who’s unable to empathize with very normal kids, dismissing of their feelings, and/or being judgmental.

I don’t know how to explain it to you, but your worldview is a self fulfilling prophecy. You are unconsciously causing this to happen.

Your expectation is that everyone is gossiping and forming cliques. You don’t want to end up being gossiped about or find yourself out of the group, so you find ways to put yourself on top by gossiping and forming cliques yourself. You feel like being a mom of an elementary schooler is like being on Survivor because you are making it that way.

Probably that’s what you saw your mom doing when you were growing up. She probably gossiped to you about other girls or other families, and you just think that’s what people do.

But whenever you aren’t there, there are groups of people who just aren’t like this. They don’t gossip and are open minded about being friends with anyone. I would say that most adults are like this. People talk about books and movies and kids and money and religion.

Most people really aren’t jealous of other adults or waiting for them to make a misstep so they can gossip about it.

No, I don’t expect everyone to gossip or form cliques. I also don’t expect everyone to always get along. Not everyone will be friends or play with everyone. Not everyone who does something mean is mean all the time. No one is genuinely friends with everyone

DP and I think the problem is that while I agree with you on the point that not everyone gets along or will be friends, I (and others) think it's possible to accept that without accepting relational aggression.

Teach kids to understand that just because a person is not their friend doesn't mean they are an enemy. You don't have to invite everyone to your birthday party, but you don't have to run around school telling all the girls you didn't invite that you don't like them. You can come up with stuff to talk about that doesn't involve idle gossip about the kids who aren't in your group, especially if it involves spreading unkind (and often untrue) rumors about them. And so on.

Whenever these threads pop up, there are always people who come on and say "ugh, not everyone has to be friends, get over it" and it's so telling to me because when people complain about relational aggression, they aren't saying "please force your child to be friends with my child." They are saying "please teach your child tact and discretion so that my child is not ostracized just because she's not friend with your child."

If you don't understand these distinctions, it's possible these are skills you also need to develop.

They are also saying my girl wants nothing to do with your girl. Just get your girl out of my girl’s face.

Oh, please. Your kid is SO MUCH LESS SPECIAL than you think they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

No dear, you truly don't get it. These girls are friends one day and then the next there is the "you can't play with us today!" then friends again. It's the same nasty girls who do this to the wider group of girls. The other girls are too nice to turn it around on the consistency mean girl and her hanger one who likes to do this crap. But for this one or two kids recess would be a lot more fun. Some just want to play but then this crap Strats.

Calling kids nasty, how tacky.
Your kid is definitely the mean one and learned it from you.

Yeah, you’re calling little kids “nasty girls” and have the gall to whine about “mean moms.” The call is coming from inside the house.

I had a girl do this to me in elementary school. And she was mean to me throughout elem school. She was not a nice person. Sorry that hurts your feelings. She kept trying to steal my friend from me, luckily we both moved on from this girl who kept trying to conquer and divide us because she was so insanely jealous of us. We're still friends and neither of us speak to that other girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

No dear, you truly don't get it. These girls are friends one day and then the next there is the "you can't play with us today!" then friends again. It's the same nasty girls who do this to the wider group of girls. The other girls are too nice to turn it around on the consistency mean girl and her hanger one who likes to do this crap. But for this one or two kids recess would be a lot more fun. Some just want to play but then this crap Strats.

Calling kids nasty, how tacky.
Your kid is definitely the mean one and learned it from you.

Yeah, you’re calling little kids “nasty girls” and have the gall to whine about “mean moms.” The call is coming from inside the house.

I had a girl do this to me in elementary school. And she was mean to me throughout elem school. She was not a nice person. Sorry that hurts your feelings. She kept trying to steal my friend from me, luckily we both moved on from this girl who kept trying to conquer and divide us because she was so insanely jealous of us. We're still friends and neither of us speak to that other girl.

^ meant divide and conquer. oops

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My unpopular opinion is most of these girls aren’t actually “mean.” “Mean girl” is what they get called by the moms who are intimidated by and hate their moms and transfer it to the daughters.

Agree. I always roll my eyes when I see these posts. The “mean girls” are just girls that aren’t interested in OP’s daughter. Nothing mean is actually happening. Same with the moms. Is another mom really being “mean” to you at school drop off? C’mon. So dumb.

And there are always posts like yours to roll my eyes at. You just cannot believe there are girls who don’t want to be friends with the mean girls. They just want the mean girls to go away.

Oh..so their kid is harassing yours out of no where? And their mom is also singling you out and harassing you? Right

Kids absolutely do harass other kids "out of nowhere." It happens all the time. My DD had a kid who used to just follow her around on the playground and, if she tried to play or speak, would scream at her. He wasn't even in her class or grade, she didn't even know his name. He just latched onto her and started harassing her.

Now, do I think that's some horrible kid who should be written off? No, I think he needs some help and interventions, that he's probably seeking out connection and friendship and just doesn't have the skills to do it, and for some reason my DD caught his eye. But this sort of thing is not uncommon and it needs to be addressed. Telling my DD "just ignore him" or to have empathy because he obviously has issues? It doesn't resolve the situation. And I've seen it with mean girl behavior, too, especially with group behaviors where a group of girls will start teasing or harassing a lone other kid. Yes it comes out of nowhere. Yes it needs to be addressed.

Ok, but this is not what OP is talking about when she refers to “mean girls” and you know that. What you are describing is a disturbed kid.

No. What she is describing is a mean girl. That you think otherwise is troubling. Guess we know which type your kid is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

No dear, you truly don't get it. These girls are friends one day and then the next there is the "you can't play with us today!" then friends again. It's the same nasty girls who do this to the wider group of girls. The other girls are too nice to turn it around on the consistency mean girl and her hanger one who likes to do this crap. But for this one or two kids recess would be a lot more fun. Some just want to play but then this crap Strats.

Calling kids nasty, how tacky.
Your kid is definitely the mean one and learned it from you.

Yeah, you’re calling little kids “nasty girls” and have the gall to whine about “mean moms.” The call is coming from inside the house.

I haven't made a single post about "mean moms" I usually don't know the girls mom either way. But for sure, there are some not nice girls who do mean things and who knows where they get it but it would be nice if they just knocked it off. But, instead, we have the odd balls on here crying about their popular girls having to beat all the less popular girls off with a stick. As if that's even what's happening. That hasn't been my experience at all navigating these issues. Perhaps other people have experiences different from yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

Can we agree to ignore this PP? Saying it’s ok for 7 and 8 year olds to be left out at school because others want to only play with kids they “flock towards” is insane.

Kids don’t have any choice over whether or not they are at school! A certain level of kindness and inclusion in a compulsory education environment should be required and expected by parents.

Yes, ignore. That PP is terribly, terribly insecure and overcompensating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

Can we agree to ignore this PP? Saying it’s ok for 7 and 8 year olds to be left out at school because others want to only play with kids they “flock towards” is insane.

Kids don’t have any choice over whether or not they are at school! A certain level of kindness and inclusion in a compulsory education environment should be required and expected by parents.

Girl, you are literally telling other posters to ignore me because you don’t like my messaging. You may need to go back to elementary school and get your head on straight. Practice what you preach! don’t hate the player, hate the game!

Oh. You aren’t mature enough to parent children.

Dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

Can we agree to ignore this PP? Saying it’s ok for 7 and 8 year olds to be left out at school because others want to only play with kids they “flock towards” is insane.

Kids don’t have any choice over whether or not they are at school! A certain level of kindness and inclusion in a compulsory education environment should be required and expected by parents.

Girl, you are literally telling other posters to ignore me because you don’t like my messaging. You may need to go back to elementary school and get your head on straight. Practice what you preach! don’t hate the player, hate the game!

She is telling people to ignore a bully.
If you want to engage in this behavior and teach your kids to write mean notes or make fun of kids for having special needs, then go for it.

No one has to listen to you tell us why it’s okay.

You’re projecting. No one is saying that behavior is okay.

Yes, you actually are saying exactly that.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My unpopular opinion is most of these girls aren’t actually “mean.” “Mean girl” is what they get called by the moms who are intimidated by and hate their moms and transfer it to the daughters.

Agree. I always roll my eyes when I see these posts. The “mean girls” are just girls that aren’t interested in OP’s daughter. Nothing mean is actually happening. Same with the moms. Is another mom really being “mean” to you at school drop off? C’mon. So dumb.

And there are always posts like yours to roll my eyes at. You just cannot believe there are girls who don’t want to be friends with the mean girls. They just want the mean girls to go away.

Then those kids should stop engaging. Your kid isn’t trying to negotiate peace in the Middle East. Your kid is in the mix as well.

Those kids are not engaging. They are minding their own business when some mean girl and her friends sit down at lunch and start talking smack about her right in front of her as if she isn’t there. Not my child, BTW, so I can be objective in this situation. There are mean kids who seek out others just to be mean. You really don’t get this, do you?

That’s not how the mean behavior has gone down in my kids ES. Maybe it’s different where you are. You don’t have to bash people for having a different lived experience.

How does it go down? What sort of mean behavior (your words)? The acceptable kind?

Girls literally hanging onto other kids coats and begging to be included. My husband saw it on a field trip. Girls making up stories and running to the teachers in order to get the “cooler” kids in trouble.

Your repeated, hilarious overinvestment in believing your kids are “cool” or “popular” and it’s sooooo harrrrrdddd is seriously pathetic. Just FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, mean girls befriend before they start treating you poorly.

Like the worst bullying I've experienced wasn't done girl who just didn't want to be friends with me. That doesn't even register. Everyone experiences that and it's not that big a deal.

The mean girl experiences I've had have happened when I WAS part of a group, and then within the context of that friendship, one or more members of the group started making fun of me (but always under the cover of "it's a joke! We're kidding of course"), talking about me behind my back (often using things i had confided in them specifically because they were my friends as fodder), of excluding me from group activities (and going out of their way to let me know the rest of the group is doing something i had previously been invited to, but not this time).

This is why mean girl behavior is so insidious. It's not bullying from some random kid in a playground. It's bullying from the people who are, ostensibly, your friends. And who you might have trusted with sensitive info, or who might know things about you.

Also, it's not just the "popular girls" who engage in this. It can happen in just about any friend group where it's tolerated.

So I don't even understand what is being argued about on this thread but it doesn't seem to have much to do with how mean girl behavior actually works.

Oh, and yes-- often kids who do this have parents who do it. Especially the gossip, because when kids hear their parents gossiping about their friends, it normalizes that behavior.

This is the problem with these discussions. Everyone has a different idea of what’s “mean.” Toxicity, emotional abuse, narcissism exists in little girls, usually intergenerationally, but other people are talking about exclusion. One is not always a problem. The other won’t be fixed by a school or by conversation with an adult. You just have to teach your kid to find their healthy friendships, and there will be some trial and error involved. The errors will hurt, but it’s part of the process.

I'm the PP and I disagree. If it's low level and the kids can move on quickly okay. But what I just described should not be "part of the process." I once had a friend group turn on me, spread a vicious rumor that made me an outcast with everyone, not just my supposed friends, and literally pretend I didn't exist at school. It was excruciating and I started self-harming just to remind myself that I existed because the pain of cutting felt good compared to the pain of being made invisible every day. I think I may still have PTSD from this experience.

And yes, the school and adults could have intervened. I ultimately wound up switching schools and starting over, but that was a long and academically disruptive process. It should never have been allowed to escalate as it did.

Which is why the attitude that "mild" mean girl behavior should be ignored and accepted as normal bothers me. My experience was mild until it wasn't. The acceptance of gossip, teasing, and exclusion by the adults around us made it possible for my "friends" to keep escalating until my school life was a daily misery.

So yeah, if kids are intentionally excluding on the playground, it's a problem and you as an adult should explain why that behavior isn't okay. Kids are welcome to have whatever friends they want after school, but at school you have to be inclusive. Teasing and gossip are anti-social behaviors that should be discouraged.

Kids kill themselves over these behaviors. You'd think that would be enough to get you to care.

Your situation and to the degree you describing is an outlier and not what OP started a thread about. Otherwise she would have included it in her OP; not made a post about how moms are like their daughters.

DP I disagree. Most of this thread seems to be disagreeing with OP and people talking about how their daughters excluding others aren't really mean, they just have better social skills and don't want to be friends with everyone. But the reality is their methods of exclusion aren't exactly nice nor should they be tolerated while at school.

Some people on this thread think that if all the kids aren’t friends, that’s bullying / exclusionary behavior. It’s not.

Literally no one thinks that.

This PP (and others probably) are using this to gaslight. No matter how many times people explain that they are talking about the kind of intentional, bullying exclusion where a child is targeted, and not just kids gravitating towards certain friends, these people will come back with "you're just mad my child isn't interested in being friends with yours."

It's actually a "mean girl" technique, where you pretend you have no idea what the other person is talking about, reframe their complaint as something ridiculous, and then claim that you, in fact, are the victim.

This is a perfect summation. End of thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, mean girls befriend before they start treating you poorly.

Like the worst bullying I've experienced wasn't done girl who just didn't want to be friends with me. That doesn't even register. Everyone experiences that and it's not that big a deal.

The mean girl experiences I've had have happened when I WAS part of a group, and then within the context of that friendship, one or more members of the group started making fun of me (but always under the cover of "it's a joke! We're kidding of course"), talking about me behind my back (often using things i had confided in them specifically because they were my friends as fodder), of excluding me from group activities (and going out of their way to let me know the rest of the group is doing something i had previously been invited to, but not this time).

This is why mean girl behavior is so insidious. It's not bullying from some random kid in a playground. It's bullying from the people who are, ostensibly, your friends. And who you might have trusted with sensitive info, or who might know things about you.

Also, it's not just the "popular girls" who engage in this. It can happen in just about any friend group where it's tolerated.

So I don't even understand what is being argued about on this thread but it doesn't seem to have much to do with how mean girl behavior actually works.

Oh, and yes-- often kids who do this have parents who do it. Especially the gossip, because when kids hear their parents gossiping about their friends, it normalizes that behavior.

This is the problem with these discussions. Everyone has a different idea of what’s “mean.” Toxicity, emotional abuse, narcissism exists in little girls, usually intergenerationally, but other people are talking about exclusion. One is not always a problem. The other won’t be fixed by a school or by conversation with an adult. You just have to teach your kid to find their healthy friendships, and there will be some trial and error involved. The errors will hurt, but it’s part of the process.

I'm the PP and I disagree. If it's low level and the kids can move on quickly okay. But what I just described should not be "part of the process." I once had a friend group turn on me, spread a vicious rumor that made me an outcast with everyone, not just my supposed friends, and literally pretend I didn't exist at school. It was excruciating and I started self-harming just to remind myself that I existed because the pain of cutting felt good compared to the pain of being made invisible every day. I think I may still have PTSD from this experience.

And yes, the school and adults could have intervened. I ultimately wound up switching schools and starting over, but that was a long and academically disruptive process. It should never have been allowed to escalate as it did.

Which is why the attitude that "mild" mean girl behavior should be ignored and accepted as normal bothers me. My experience was mild until it wasn't. The acceptance of gossip, teasing, and exclusion by the adults around us made it possible for my "friends" to keep escalating until my school life was a daily misery.

So yeah, if kids are intentionally excluding on the playground, it's a problem and you as an adult should explain why that behavior isn't okay. Kids are welcome to have whatever friends they want after school, but at school you have to be inclusive. Teasing and gossip are anti-social behaviors that should be discouraged.

Kids kill themselves over these behaviors. You'd think that would be enough to get you to care.

Your situation and to the degree you describing is an outlier and not what OP started a thread about. Otherwise she would have included it in her OP; not made a post about how moms are like their daughters.

DP I disagree. Most of this thread seems to be disagreeing with OP and people talking about how their daughters excluding others aren't really mean, they just have better social skills and don't want to be friends with everyone. But the reality is their methods of exclusion aren't exactly nice nor should they be tolerated while at school.

Some people on this thread think that if all the kids aren’t friends, that’s bullying / exclusionary behavior. It’s not.

Literally no one thinks that.

This PP (and others probably) are using this to gaslight. No matter how many times people explain that they are talking about the kind of intentional, bullying exclusion where a child is targeted, and not just kids gravitating towards certain friends, these people will come back with "you're just mad my child isn't interested in being friends with yours."

It's actually a "mean girl" technique, where you pretend you have no idea what the other person is talking about, reframe their complaint as something ridiculous, and then claim that you, in fact, are the victim.

This is a perfect summation. End of thread.

No the perfect summation was about 7 pages ago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, mean girls befriend before they start treating you poorly.

Like the worst bullying I've experienced wasn't done girl who just didn't want to be friends with me. That doesn't even register. Everyone experiences that and it's not that big a deal.

The mean girl experiences I've had have happened when I WAS part of a group, and then within the context of that friendship, one or more members of the group started making fun of me (but always under the cover of "it's a joke! We're kidding of course"), talking about me behind my back (often using things i had confided in them specifically because they were my friends as fodder), of excluding me from group activities (and going out of their way to let me know the rest of the group is doing something i had previously been invited to, but not this time).

This is why mean girl behavior is so insidious. It's not bullying from some random kid in a playground. It's bullying from the people who are, ostensibly, your friends. And who you might have trusted with sensitive info, or who might know things about you.

Also, it's not just the "popular girls" who engage in this. It can happen in just about any friend group where it's tolerated.

So I don't even understand what is being argued about on this thread but it doesn't seem to have much to do with how mean girl behavior actually works.

Oh, and yes-- often kids who do this have parents who do it. Especially the gossip, because when kids hear their parents gossiping about their friends, it normalizes that behavior.

This is the problem with these discussions. Everyone has a different idea of what’s “mean.” Toxicity, emotional abuse, narcissism exists in little girls, usually intergenerationally, but other people are talking about exclusion. One is not always a problem. The other won’t be fixed by a school or by conversation with an adult. You just have to teach your kid to find their healthy friendships, and there will be some trial and error involved. The errors will hurt, but it’s part of the process.

I'm the PP and I disagree. If it's low level and the kids can move on quickly okay. But what I just described should not be "part of the process." I once had a friend group turn on me, spread a vicious rumor that made me an outcast with everyone, not just my supposed friends, and literally pretend I didn't exist at school. It was excruciating and I started self-harming just to remind myself that I existed because the pain of cutting felt good compared to the pain of being made invisible every day. I think I may still have PTSD from this experience.

And yes, the school and adults could have intervened. I ultimately wound up switching schools and starting over, but that was a long and academically disruptive process. It should never have been allowed to escalate as it did.

Which is why the attitude that "mild" mean girl behavior should be ignored and accepted as normal bothers me. My experience was mild until it wasn't. The acceptance of gossip, teasing, and exclusion by the adults around us made it possible for my "friends" to keep escalating until my school life was a daily misery.

So yeah, if kids are intentionally excluding on the playground, it's a problem and you as an adult should explain why that behavior isn't okay. Kids are welcome to have whatever friends they want after school, but at school you have to be inclusive. Teasing and gossip are anti-social behaviors that should be discouraged.

Kids kill themselves over these behaviors. You'd think that would be enough to get you to care.

Your situation and to the degree you describing is an outlier and not what OP started a thread about. Otherwise she would have included it in her OP; not made a post about how moms are like their daughters.

DP I disagree. Most of this thread seems to be disagreeing with OP and people talking about how their daughters excluding others aren't really mean, they just have better social skills and don't want to be friends with everyone. But the reality is their methods of exclusion aren't exactly nice nor should they be tolerated while at school.

Some people on this thread think that if all the kids aren’t friends, that’s bullying / exclusionary behavior. It’s not.

Yes it is if they're like "we're not playing with you today!" and then want to be besties the next day. Stop talking about lived experiences that aren't your own. I know it when I see it.

I agree that is abusive behavior. When this exact scenario happened repeatedly to my child, I encouraged her to end the cycle and stop playing with the other girl. My DD agreed and became friends with other people. The bully then turned around and complained that my child was excluding her. DD wasn’t. DD didn’t tell anyone not to play with bully. All she did was ignore the bully herself. Bully’s mom complained to the school about my daughter. Bully’s mom is socially awkward. I am positive that she thinks I’m a mean mom with a mean child. I couldn’t care less. I had to try to protect my child from emotional abuse. I’ll proudly wear the badge of mean mom if that what it entails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't give them an opportunity to be mean to you. Ignore them!

x100000

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. When your kids wants to join in a game at recess and the other girls say "NO!" and run away from you how do you ignore that? Is your solution that the kid who just wants to play should know their place and never even ask? Just sit there on a bench alone? No.

This reads like you really want your kid to be in the “in crowd” and are fighting reality. 2nd-3rd grade is old enough for kids to flock towards people they enjoy spending time with.

Can we agree to ignore this PP? Saying it’s ok for 7 and 8 year olds to be left out at school because others want to only play with kids they “flock towards” is insane.

Kids don’t have any choice over whether or not they are at school! A certain level of kindness and inclusion in a compulsory education environment should be required and expected by parents.

Girl, you are literally telling other posters to ignore me because you don’t like my messaging. You may need to go back to elementary school and get your head on straight. Practice what you preach! don’t hate the player, hate the game!

She is telling people to ignore a bully.
If you want to engage in this behavior and teach your kids to write mean notes or make fun of kids for having special needs, then go for it.

No one has to listen to you tell us why it’s okay.

You’re projecting. No one is saying that behavior is okay.

We are talking about:

- Excluding other girls
- Making fun of other girls or boys (verbally or in notes/pictures that are passed around the classroom)
- Telling kids not to play with or be friends with certain girls or boys.

Many people are saying that it’s okay, developmentally appropriate, and that it isn’t really “mean.”

And their moms are doing this to you also, as per the OP? Means girls and their mean mom?

What do you think, pp? What’s your experience with girls who engage in this behavior?
Are their moms volunteering at soup kitchens and trying to reach out to recent immigrants to teach them about PowerSchool?

Yes. I literally never had another mom from school be “mean” to me.

I haven’t either. I’m an attractive UMC white lady. Not a lot of people are mean to me. But I can recognize when they are mean to other people.

By doing what? Not saying hi at drop off? Not letting you bring the Frankenstein cookies to the Halloween party and telling you you have to bring the gross candy corn instead?

More or less. Maybe I will be talking to another mom, and a third mom will come over to say hi, and the person I’m chatting with will literally turn her back or walk away.
Or instead of putting out a sign up sheet or having the teacher send an email about volunteering for the Halloween party so anyone can participate, they only invite their friends.
Or gossiping about how another mom is dirty or gross in some way.
Or having a school party or fundraiser and only advertising it to certain people so the less desirable people don’t show.

This would honestly not register with me at all as mean- except the gossip. But I wouldn’t sit around talking long enough to even hear gossip, maybe you shouldn’t either

What if the people who were being mean were white, and the people being excluded were black. Would it register with you at all as racist?
I will copy and paste the examples:

- I will be talking to another mom, and a third mom will come over to say hi, and the person I’m chatting with will literally turn her back or walk away.

- instead of putting out a sign up sheet or having the teacher send an email about volunteering for the Halloween party so anyone can participate, they only invite their friends.

- gossiping about how another mom is dirty or gross in some way.

- Hosting a school party or fundraiser and only advertising it to certain people so the less desirable people don’t show.

Would not give any of these a second thought. Why are you stewing about some dumb volunteer list? Or someone turning around and talking to someone else? Who cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, mean girls befriend before they start treating you poorly.

Like the worst bullying I've experienced wasn't done girl who just didn't want to be friends with me. That doesn't even register. Everyone experiences that and it's not that big a deal.

The mean girl experiences I've had have happened when I WAS part of a group, and then within the context of that friendship, one or more members of the group started making fun of me (but always under the cover of "it's a joke! We're kidding of course"), talking about me behind my back (often using things i had confided in them specifically because they were my friends as fodder), of excluding me from group activities (and going out of their way to let me know the rest of the group is doing something i had previously been invited to, but not this time).

This is why mean girl behavior is so insidious. It's not bullying from some random kid in a playground. It's bullying from the people who are, ostensibly, your friends. And who you might have trusted with sensitive info, or who might know things about you.

Also, it's not just the "popular girls" who engage in this. It can happen in just about any friend group where it's tolerated.

So I don't even understand what is being argued about on this thread but it doesn't seem to have much to do with how mean girl behavior actually works.

Oh, and yes-- often kids who do this have parents who do it. Especially the gossip, because when kids hear their parents gossiping about their friends, it normalizes that behavior.

This is the problem with these discussions. Everyone has a different idea of what’s “mean.” Toxicity, emotional abuse, narcissism exists in little girls, usually intergenerationally, but other people are talking about exclusion. One is not always a problem. The other won’t be fixed by a school or by conversation with an adult. You just have to teach your kid to find their healthy friendships, and there will be some trial and error involved. The errors will hurt, but it’s part of the process.

I'm the PP and I disagree. If it's low level and the kids can move on quickly okay. But what I just described should not be "part of the process." I once had a friend group turn on me, spread a vicious rumor that made me an outcast with everyone, not just my supposed friends, and literally pretend I didn't exist at school. It was excruciating and I started self-harming just to remind myself that I existed because the pain of cutting felt good compared to the pain of being made invisible every day. I think I may still have PTSD from this experience.

And yes, the school and adults could have intervened. I ultimately wound up switching schools and starting over, but that was a long and academically disruptive process. It should never have been allowed to escalate as it did.

Which is why the attitude that "mild" mean girl behavior should be ignored and accepted as normal bothers me. My experience was mild until it wasn't. The acceptance of gossip, teasing, and exclusion by the adults around us made it possible for my "friends" to keep escalating until my school life was a daily misery.

So yeah, if kids are intentionally excluding on the playground, it's a problem and you as an adult should explain why that behavior isn't okay. Kids are welcome to have whatever friends they want after school, but at school you have to be inclusive. Teasing and gossip are anti-social behaviors that should be discouraged.

Kids kill themselves over these behaviors. You'd think that would be enough to get you to care.

Your situation and to the degree you describing is an outlier and not what OP started a thread about. Otherwise she would have included it in her OP; not made a post about how moms are like their daughters.

It's less of an outlier than you think. There are a lot of kids out there who are miserable because no one talks to them/their old friends froze them out/kids gossip about them or their families/etc. If you think it's not happening, or isn't happening at your school, you are likely just fortunate and naive.

And the whole point is that what starts with seemingly minor behavior on the playground can escalate. Some people are being intentionally obtuse, or using obfuscation, to try and make it seem like none of this is a big deal. But it does matter:

- Intentional exclusion at school is a problem. This does not mean your kid must be friends with everyone. It does not mean you must invite all kids to all things. It DOES mean that kids at school, especially in elementary, should be encouraged to be inclusive and kind. To everyone. Yes, that is inconvenient and it might make certain things less fun. Oh well. It is also inconvenient and sometimes less fun to be inclusive at work. It's just a skill you need to learn and school is for learning.

- Gossip about other kids is not okay. Yes, gossip is inevitable in life. But it should be discouraged and kids need to be taught what can make gossip worse and more damaging. Which means controlling your own gossipy tendencies. Which a lot of parents have. As well as some teachers. Sorry, I know gossip can be fun and compulsive but part of being a parent is dealign with your own toxic behavior in order to do better with your kids. Knock it off.

- Teasing/"it was a joke" -- low tolerance for teasing and not giving into the excuse "I was kidding" or "it was a joke." It seems like no big deal but it's insidious. It is honestly better for kids to just say straight up unkind things to each other than to engage in this passive aggressive gaslighting. I'd rather have kid be told "you smell and you're ugly," which is a think I can address directly and simply, than have my kid be the butt of a joke that maybe seems not that bad, and after all, they're just kidding. Because the kid who is directly criticized will be taken seriously and the kid who did it will be held accountable. When everything is a joke, the victim is often told they are "being too sensitive" and "it's not that big a deal." This is toxic BS. Discourage your kids from teasing and do not accept "I was kidding" as an excuse. It's not. If you're going to say hurtful things about someone, at least have the courage to own up to it.

Those of you acting like none of this matters are just bad parents. And I'm not "just joking."

+one billion to all of this.

The mean girl moms on here are so obvious. "It's never happened to me; it's all in your head." "My kid doesn't have to be friends with your kid and I tell her so..." This is where the mini mean girls get it from. All the parents on here going on about how their precious snowflake doesn't have to be friends with anyone are being deliberately obtuse. NO ONE on this thread expects everyone to be FRIENDS with everyone else. But you should expect your children to learn to be KIND and CONSIDERATE of other people, even those who are not your friends.