NYTs: if affirmative action goes, say buy-bye to legacy, EA/ED, and most athletic preferences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

Curious which countries you are referring that have meritocratic methods?

China, Japan, and South Korea. And those kids literally kill themselves if they don’t gain admission. Suicide and depression rates among teens are off the chart in those countries. It’s collective trauma.

Cheating on tests in these countries is rampant, and politically-connected and wealthy families can very easily buy their way into the top universities. I figured these would be examples of the countries offered...add India as another country where the admissions process is a mess.

People have already mentioned the UK and European countries.

So, you don't think the good old boys from Eton don't have essentially guaranteed admission at Cambridge or Oxford? I don't know much about the Scandanavian or German college systems...France has a pipeline of the wealthy private school kids to the Sorbonne.

People, stop thinking there are magical, meritocratic places. Maybe there are...but keep trying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

Curious which countries you are referring that have meritocratic methods?

China, Japan, and South Korea. And those kids literally kill themselves if they don’t gain admission. Suicide and depression rates among teens are off the chart in those countries. It’s collective trauma.

Cheating on tests in these countries is rampant, and politically-connected and wealthy families can very easily buy their way into the top universities. I figured these would be examples of the countries offered...add India as another country where the admissions process is a mess.

People have already mentioned the UK and European countries.

So, you don't think the good old boys from Eton don't have essentially guaranteed admission at Cambridge or Oxford? I don't know much about the Scandanavian or German college systems...France has a pipeline of the wealthy private school kids to the Sorbonne.

People, stop thinking there are magical, meritocratic places. Maybe there are...but keep trying.

The wealthy and connected will get in to every university they desire. We aren’t talking about frankly these people. We the unwashed masses are discussing admission policies that apply to us, aa being one of them. But yes in a fair world the rich won’t be advantaged, like in every aspect of life. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

Curious which countries you are referring that have meritocratic methods?

China, Japan, and South Korea. And those kids literally kill themselves if they don’t gain admission. Suicide and depression rates among teens are off the chart in those countries. It’s collective trauma.

Cheating on tests in these countries is rampant, and politically-connected and wealthy families can very easily buy their way into the top universities. I figured these would be examples of the countries offered...add India as another country where the admissions process is a mess.

People have already mentioned the UK and European countries.

So, you don't think the good old boys from Eton don't have essentially guaranteed admission at Cambridge or Oxford? I don't know much about the Scandanavian or German college systems...France has a pipeline of the wealthy private school kids to the Sorbonne.

People, stop thinking there are magical, meritocratic places. Maybe there are...but keep trying.

The wealthy and connected will get in to every university they desire. We aren’t talking about frankly these people. We the unwashed masses are discussing admission policies that apply to us, aa being one of them. But yes in a fair world the rich won’t be advantaged, like in every aspect of life. Duh.

NP: the masses aren’t going to Oxford or Cambridge. The UK has limited socioeconomic mobility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

Curious which countries you are referring that have meritocratic methods?

China, Japan, and South Korea. And those kids literally kill themselves if they don’t gain admission. Suicide and depression rates among teens are off the chart in those countries. It’s collective trauma.

Cheating on tests in these countries is rampant, and politically-connected and wealthy families can very easily buy their way into the top universities. I figured these would be examples of the countries offered...add India as another country where the admissions process is a mess.

People have already mentioned the UK and European countries.

So, you don't think the good old boys from Eton don't have essentially guaranteed admission at Cambridge or Oxford? I don't know much about the Scandanavian or German college systems...France has a pipeline of the wealthy private school kids to the Sorbonne.

People, stop thinking there are magical, meritocratic places. Maybe there are...but keep trying.

The wealthy and connected will get in to every university they desire. We aren’t talking about frankly these people. We the unwashed masses are discussing admission policies that apply to us, aa being one of them. But yes in a fair world the rich won’t be advantaged, like in every aspect of life. Duh.

NP: the masses aren’t going to Oxford or Cambridge. The UK has limited socioeconomic mobility.

The beauty of meritocracy. If you have good enough grades and grit you will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They can’t get rid of athletic preferences or they won’t be able to field a team. It makes no sense.

I still don’t see how colleges won’t be able to still keep doing it with.holistic admissions . The whole process is such a random crapshoot anyway,

All URM need to do is write essays about their URM experience and without naming it, admissions will know what to do to create diverse student bodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see whether the ruling prohibits consideration of gender.

I don’t see why colleges would eliminate preference for athletes if affirmative action is banned. What’s the rationale?

I understand why ED and legacy could be eliminated but it may not be in the colleges’ interests to do so.

Right - I think the OP’s topic headline doesn’t reflect the article. It did refer to ED and legacy admissions being at risk, but not athletic preferences at all. Colleges definitely do NOT look at them the same way.

If anything, colleges are going to rely upon athletic preferences even more because that’s a clear race-blind way that can have the effect of increasing underrepresented minority students.

Great! Now they will take mediocre black athletes to fill things like lacrosse teams to bring in more diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

How does this result in a drop in women in stem? Please be specific. Just curious

White women are the largest group to benefit from AA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They can’t get rid of athletic preferences or they won’t be able to field a team. It makes no sense.

I still don’t see how colleges won’t be able to still keep doing it with.holistic admissions . The whole process is such a random crapshoot anyway,

Good. These are institutions of higher learning. Focus on that. Nothing else. Look at what most other countires do. Our system is so corrupted by $$

This.

The FTC should go after colleges for false marketing claims.

Uh, care to spell that out? -government lawyer laughing

+2

WTAF??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

How does this result in a drop in women in stem? Please be specific. Just curious

White women are the largest group to benefit from AA.

No they aren’t. There was just a lengthy discussion about how women are disadvantaged in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

How does this result in a drop in women in stem? Please be specific. Just curious

White women are the largest group to benefit from AA.

If you define “white women” very broadly to include Hispanic, middle eastern and other ethnicities, then sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

LOL how is the current college environment “racist” against Asians when they are already represented 2-3x in elite colleges relative to their share of population? Your criticism makes zero sense. Asians are doing f#cking awesome under the current system.

Because they are being actively discriminated against when admissions is viewed from a merit point of view. They have higher test scores and GPAs and activities but are not getting in “due to personality”. You know this from the Harvard suit. It’s identical to when Harvard discriminated against Jews

The SC can’t force GPAs and SAT scores to be the only requirements for admission. It’s going to be incredible to hear the triggered teeth gnashing in 5 years when Harvard’s demographic profile hasn’t budged

You are obtuse if you allude to GPA and SAT scores. Harvard was using bogus personality scores. Well harvard can try and the lawsuits will keep coming.

Guess what? Harvard will continue to use personality scores; they will just eliminate race and gender from the scoring criteria. And instead they will substitute things that are proxies for socioeconomic status: private vs. public school, zip code or voting precinct, wealth or education level of guardians, first generation, etc. The most elite schools will find ways to keep their student body diverse.

This. They just can't name it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cant wait! Sounds like the right move! Admissions based on academic capability and motivation, maybe? I know, crazy.

Yes! No more legacy or admission based on participation in expensive sports!

Do we stop at expensive sports prep - or should we throw tutored applicants in, as well?

Without the sports and/or the tutoring, what would the school really be getting? Should students who do not need either be rewarded? Probably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

LOL how is the current college environment “racist” against Asians when they are already represented 2-3x in elite colleges relative to their share of population? Your criticism makes zero sense. Asians are doing f#cking awesome under the current system.

Because they are being actively discriminated against when admissions is viewed from a merit point of view. They have higher test scores and GPAs and activities but are not getting in “due to personality”. You know this from the Harvard suit. It’s identical to when Harvard discriminated against Jews

The SC can’t force GPAs and SAT scores to be the only requirements for admission. It’s going to be incredible to hear the triggered teeth gnashing in 5 years when Harvard’s demographic profile hasn’t budged

You are obtuse if you allude to GPA and SAT scores. Harvard was using bogus personality scores. Well harvard can try and the lawsuits will keep coming.

Guess what? Harvard will continue to use personality scores; they will just eliminate race and gender from the scoring criteria. And instead they will substitute things that are proxies for socioeconomic status: private vs. public school, zip code or voting precinct, wealth or education level of guardians, first generation, etc. The most elite schools will find ways to keep their student body diverse.

That’s why the other half of the case is more important. Public schools won’t have the resources to follow suit, and most of the good ones outside of the UC system and Washington are in red or purple states where there will be pressure to follow the law

This is a joke, right? Most of the good ones are in blue states. And where do you think companies will go to hire? The diverse colleges or redneck ones????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

LOL how is the current college environment “racist” against Asians when they are already represented 2-3x in elite colleges relative to their share of population? Your criticism makes zero sense. Asians are doing f#cking awesome under the current system.

Because they are being actively discriminated against when admissions is viewed from a merit point of view. They have higher test scores and GPAs and activities but are not getting in “due to personality”. You know this from the Harvard suit. It’s identical to when Harvard discriminated against Jews

The SC can’t force GPAs and SAT scores to be the only requirements for admission. It’s going to be incredible to hear the triggered teeth gnashing in 5 years when Harvard’s demographic profile hasn’t budged

You are obtuse if you allude to GPA and SAT scores. Harvard was using bogus personality scores. Well harvard can try and the lawsuits will keep coming.

Guess what? Harvard will continue to use personality scores; they will just eliminate race and gender from the scoring criteria. And instead they will substitute things that are proxies for socioeconomic status: private vs. public school, zip code or voting precinct, wealth or education level of guardians, first generation, etc. The most elite schools will find ways to keep their student body diverse.

This. They just can't name it.

Name what? Brown people? Asian Brown people, included?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with that. College admissions needs a massive overhaul.

Depending on what the Supreme Court says, one of the biggest changes will be elimination of any sort of “Women in STEM” outreach programs, preferences, or scholarships.

Be careful what you (ignorantly) wish for.

Sure. Unless you are an Asian American woman. What this article fails to mention is that the whole college admissions process has been blatantly racist against Asians. Also since we are talking about women girls in general are disadvantaged under admissions to make way for more males that are less qualified. Again college admission here needs an overhaul. Many other countries rely on other meritocratic measures for competitive college admissions and I am all for that.

Curious which countries you are referring that have meritocratic methods?

China, Japan, and South Korea. And those kids literally kill themselves if they don’t gain admission. Suicide and depression rates among teens are off the chart in those countries. It’s collective trauma.

Cheating on tests in these countries is rampant, and politically-connected and wealthy families can very easily buy their way into the top universities. I figured these would be examples of the countries offered...add India as another country where the admissions process is a mess.

You mean the same way rich and connected families buy their ways into universities here and people cheat ala university blues?

I don’t think you know what is going on in India and China. Did you know that the SAT stopped administering the test in China due to rampant cheating it could not control?

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