Do you know people that moved to Florida?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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I am glad all these blue staters moved to red states. Reduces polarization and will make the fall election interesting. I'm not gonna do it of course but good for everyone else!



I did this and I am constantly thrilled by it. You would not believe what 1.3-2M will buy down here.


We were house hunting in the suburbs of Orlando ("authentically") and saw a 4500sqft Spanish style house with a sizable courtyard, exterior staircase leading up to 2nd-floor balconies, rooms, and a small terrace. The garage opens into the courtyard and you drive into the courtyard through an arched gateway. You could totally shoot a short clip of an R&B video there. The whole thing was a dream and was $850k. Granted this was late 2020 and the house is a little further out from the center of town, but the home was shockingly beautiful for the price. We also saw some 1.5-2M homes closer in that were extremely impressive - sitting on large lakes, boating dock, 10k+ sqft, etc.


None of that sounds appealing. It sounds overpriced and gaudy and irresponsible towards the environment. Florida has been raping the beautiful natural landscape of the state in exchange for golf courses and man made lakes (aka drainage ditch for a housing development with a fountain) since the days of that bastard Flagler.


Yes, because the tract homes in Leesburg VA are honoring their natural surroundings so well and minding their environmental footprint.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Leesburg either.

The irony of your position is that the only place that would fit your description of retaining the "beautiful natural landscape" are solidly red and very rural areas.

No, actually it is urban living that allows for an unspoiled wilderness. The rednecks who live there take it for granted and want to exploit the landscape for their own personal gain, everyone else be damned.

Re: Florida, large scale human settlement is only possible due to massive environmental destruction like draining millions of acres of wetlands and converting the entire state into a series of artificial canals. Not really comparable to many other regions. BTW Florida is quite red in the center of the state and there is very little that looks anything like the unspoiled natural jewel that Florida once was.

Are you saying that your urban home always existed and that no "beautiful natural landscape" ever existed in its place? What makes your destruction of natural landscape better?

She's saying that concentrating people in small, dense areas, leaves room for nature not to be paved over elsewhere. Not that there was never nature in the small, dense places - but you can mitigate against more habitat loss by building up and increasing density instead of pushing people out further and further into areas that aren't very developed yet.

By that rationale, the difference between an okay level of nature destruction and not-okay level is completely subjective and arbitrary. It can then be argued that anyone who lives in more than a sleeping bag is not mitigating habitat loss.

Welcome to the real world, I guess? Every policy decision - and frankly every moral decision - is a matter of balancing tradeoffs to try to find something that both meets humans' needs and isn't excessively harmful. So yes, concentrating people in cities does lead to habitat destruction there, but it causes less harm than having humans spread into other places. In most cases, hopefully we have experts - wildlife experts, water experts, wetlands experts, all kinds of experts - helping guide the decisions so they are most effective and do the most good.

I guess I don't know what to tell you if you're an absolutist who thinks humans don't belong anywhere - or, a nihilist who thinks that because every choice involves some harm, there's no purpose to trying to mitigate that harm. You can't really live like that.

That's the type of absolutist argument that you are accusing others of. This is not clearly indicated by science. It's more logical that human population concentration vs environmental impact is on some non-linear "efficiency" curve. There is also a balance between local environmental quality vs global environmental quality. I am an engineer by training and by trade. That does not make me an expert on the environment, but it does provide me with a healthy dose of skepticism whenever a layperson attempts to use "science" to claim moral/ethical superiority and justify their own subjective preferences as objectively superior to the preferences of others.

Care to explain why the rare natural ecosystems found in Florida have been decimated in less than 200 years if not for the extraction of profit by the wealthy political class? Is that wealthy political class in Florida widely known to be liberal or conservative? Is it regarded as corrupt, or mostly just?

Your kind of have it backwards. At the end of WWII, there were only about 2 million people living in Florida because most of the state was unlivable before the advent of air conditioning. After AC became affordable for the middle and working classes, Florida boomed as a retirement destination (at first) where people could leave frozen places up north and spend their golden years in a house by a golf course. The people who got rich off of this realized what Americans were looking for, and facilitated the movement of millions of them to Florida.

I know it's kind of mystifying for a lot of DCUM posters that so many Americans decided to move to a place like Florida, but I guess that's because so many people on here live in parochial bubbles where everyone thinks, acts, and lives like them. To them, a retired auto worker selling his house in Michigan for a place in Sarasota is an alien concept. "But, what about the lack of culture?" they bemoan? Chris Nowak from Hamtramck doesn't care about opera or the latest fusion restaurant. He doesn't want to shovel snow anymore, and he wants a pool in his back yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am glad all these blue staters moved to red states. Reduces polarization and will make the fall election interesting. I'm not gonna do it of course but good for everyone else!



I did this and I am constantly thrilled by it. You would not believe what 1.3-2M will buy down here.


We were house hunting in the suburbs of Orlando ("authentically") and saw a 4500sqft Spanish style house with a sizable courtyard, exterior staircase leading up to 2nd-floor balconies, rooms, and a small terrace. The garage opens into the courtyard and you drive into the courtyard through an arched gateway. You could totally shoot a short clip of an R&B video there. The whole thing was a dream and was $850k. Granted this was late 2020 and the house is a little further out from the center of town, but the home was shockingly beautiful for the price. We also saw some 1.5-2M homes closer in that were extremely impressive - sitting on large lakes, boating dock, 10k+ sqft, etc.


None of that sounds appealing. It sounds overpriced and gaudy and irresponsible towards the environment. Florida has been raping the beautiful natural landscape of the state in exchange for golf courses and man made lakes (aka drainage ditch for a housing development with a fountain) since the days of that bastard Flagler.


Yes, because the tract homes in Leesburg VA are honoring their natural surroundings so well and minding their environmental footprint.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Leesburg either.

The irony of your position is that the only place that would fit your description of retaining the "beautiful natural landscape" are solidly red and very rural areas.

No, actually it is urban living that allows for an unspoiled wilderness. The rednecks who live there take it for granted and want to exploit the landscape for their own personal gain, everyone else be damned.

Re: Florida, large scale human settlement is only possible due to massive environmental destruction like draining millions of acres of wetlands and converting the entire state into a series of artificial canals. Not really comparable to many other regions. BTW Florida is quite red in the center of the state and there is very little that looks anything like the unspoiled natural jewel that Florida once was.

Are you saying that your urban home always existed and that no "beautiful natural landscape" ever existed in its place? What makes your destruction of natural landscape better?

She's saying that concentrating people in small, dense areas, leaves room for nature not to be paved over elsewhere. Not that there was never nature in the small, dense places - but you can mitigate against more habitat loss by building up and increasing density instead of pushing people out further and further into areas that aren't very developed yet.

By that rationale, the difference between an okay level of nature destruction and not-okay level is completely subjective and arbitrary. It can then be argued that anyone who lives in more than a sleeping bag is not mitigating habitat loss.

Welcome to the real world, I guess? Every policy decision - and frankly every moral decision - is a matter of balancing tradeoffs to try to find something that both meets humans' needs and isn't excessively harmful. So yes, concentrating people in cities does lead to habitat destruction there, but it causes less harm than having humans spread into other places. In most cases, hopefully we have experts - wildlife experts, water experts, wetlands experts, all kinds of experts - helping guide the decisions so they are most effective and do the most good.

I guess I don't know what to tell you if you're an absolutist who thinks humans don't belong anywhere - or, a nihilist who thinks that because every choice involves some harm, there's no purpose to trying to mitigate that harm. You can't really live like that.

That's the type of absolutist argument that you are accusing others of. This is not clearly indicated by science. It's more logical that human population concentration vs environmental impact is on some non-linear "efficiency" curve. There is also a balance between local environmental quality vs global environmental quality. I am an engineer by training and by trade. That does not make me an expert on the environment, but it does provide me with a healthy dose of skepticism whenever a layperson attempts to use "science" to claim moral/ethical superiority and justify their own subjective preferences as objectively superior to the preferences of others.

Care to explain why the rare natural ecosystems found in Florida have been decimated in less than 200 years if not for the extraction of profit by the wealthy political class? Is that wealthy political class in Florida widely known to be liberal or conservative? Is it regarded as corrupt, or mostly just?

Your kind of have it backwards. At the end of WWII, there were only about 2 million people living in Florida because most of the state was unlivable before the advent of air conditioning. After AC became affordable for the middle and working classes, Florida boomed as a retirement destination (at first) where people could leave frozen places up north and spend their golden years in a house by a golf course. The people who got rich off of this realized what Americans were looking for, and facilitated the movement of millions of them to Florida.

I know it's kind of mystifying for a lot of DCUM posters that so many Americans decided to move to a place like Florida, but I guess that's because so many people on here live in parochial bubbles where everyone thinks, acts, and lives like them. To them, a retired auto worker selling his house in Michigan for a place in Sarasota is an alien concept. "But, what about the lack of culture?" they bemoan? Chris Nowak from Hamtramck doesn't care about opera or the latest fusion restaurant. He doesn't want to shovel snow anymore, and he wants a pool in his back yard.

Not sure how anything you wrote is a rebuttal of the pp.