Elite Colleges’ Quiet Fight to Favor Alumni Children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

My kid is a legacy who would not have gotten into the top 20 that he did without that status. It wasn't alone legacy that got him in, but also the multi-million dollar gifts from his family over the last 60 years. The thing is, he worked incredibly hard--as hard as any kid could--at a very intense independent school. He is incredibly bright but has ADHD and there was just no way, despite his 6-7 hours of homework a night, meeting with teachers, ECs, all of it--and probably more than 99% of his peers--that he could get straight As. He got into great schools, just not quite as high as the one that legacy got him. He chose it anyway, with some trepidation. He says that sometimes he feels "imposter" syndrome (I explained that's not exactly what that is), but he knows he worked every bit as hard as his classmates who didn't get in. So why does he deserve it less? He worked harder than most and is highly intelligent. If you think he didn't deserve it, then your argument must be that only those with a very certain kind of intelligence, regardless of work ethic, should get in. Is that what you think?

He didn’t work harder that most. You need to dispense with that lie. He certainly did not work harder than a kid who has to work a 20-hour per week job in addition to getting higher grades than your DS. He didn’t work harder than an athlete who kept up a crushing training schedule while getting grades similar to your son’s. He didn’t work harder than a kid who had to get higher grades while also negotiating the college application system for the first time in his extended family.

Your son has figured out that his admission was based on reasons other than his own merit and accomplishments. You are bizarrely trying to create a fantasy world where that is not the case, whether to protect him or you, I don’t know. But your entire post reeks of self-delusion. Look, your DCs admission was bought and not based on his own merits. He sees it (a credit to him). It is you who are telling yourself fantasies to avoid the truth.

+1 This poster has a complex that her excessively privileged kid is a victim of unfairness of the world. Her ADHD kid could probably do nothing and live off his family's trust funds his whole life and end up better off than a first gen college student who works his butt off. But nothing will convince people like that they are privilieged. To them, they are working hard and earned every penny of their vast inherited wealth.

Oh my gosh, when did I say I didn't know I was privileged? Actually, for the record, I was not born or raised privileged. In fact, and this is especially for the jerk bashing JMU, I myself was a first-gen college student and went to JMU. I was a recruited athlete, worked hard, and then you know what I was able to do from there? Get a great job, then marry really well! Have I been privileged since I married well 20 years ago? Yep. Am I more privileged than most POC? Yes again. But you are making ridiculous assumptions about me based on my defense of legacy admissions. My son did go through hell to get through high school and yes, worked as hard as (fine, almost) any teenager you could meet. One of his best friends killed himself and a close family member dropped dead right in front of our eyes during his junior year. And this kid just kept on going. You don't know him and just because he couldn't get a straight A average doesn't make him less worthy. Frankly, being born to a wealthy father doesn't make him less worthy. Not his fault. Why aren't you bashing all the well-off private school kids who go to top colleges? Do you have a problem with them, too? Because you seem to think that anybody with some privilege doesn't deserve it. The vast vast majority of kids going to top 20 universities are getting in based on any number of criteria, the most important of which is evidence that they can do the work. So, instead of wasting so much time worrying about the rich kids who you seem to think are going to take that spot away from your kid, why not instead raise a kid who can do the work? If you weren't able to, then too bad. I guess it's JMU for him, too.

Some pretty miserable angst ridden people on here today it's fun to watch them bellow, howl and squirm. Good for your kid.

I think the delusional PP is the clearly miserable one? She can’t seem to handle the reality that her child’s admission wasn’t based on his own merits? That seems pretty miserable to me. Idk. I don’t really understand her desperate self-delusions but whatever.

The only delusional people here are the one's that continue to say the same thing over and over and over again. Everyone gets it, you want to pile onto the lady on an anonymous forum and denigrate her family and child because you have an opinion you feel is virtuous. Get a life people, sit down and STFU, you have far surpassed the pro legacy people in your vitriol and lack of class.

You are saying “sit down and STFU” and complaining about vitriol and lack of class at the same time. You’ve got as many self-delusions as the crazy legacy mom.

Ok keyboard warrior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

My kid is a legacy who would not have gotten into the top 20 that he did without that status. It wasn't alone legacy that got him in, but also the multi-million dollar gifts from his family over the last 60 years. The thing is, he worked incredibly hard--as hard as any kid could--at a very intense independent school. He is incredibly bright but has ADHD and there was just no way, despite his 6-7 hours of homework a night, meeting with teachers, ECs, all of it--and probably more than 99% of his peers--that he could get straight As. He got into great schools, just not quite as high as the one that legacy got him. He chose it anyway, with some trepidation. He says that sometimes he feels "imposter" syndrome (I explained that's not exactly what that is), but he knows he worked every bit as hard as his classmates who didn't get in. So why does he deserve it less? He worked harder than most and is highly intelligent. If you think he didn't deserve it, then your argument must be that only those with a very certain kind of intelligence, regardless of work ethic, should get in. Is that what you think?

I think it's good that your kid has imposter syndrome, you said it yourself- money bought his way in. Hopefully it weights on him

Yeah, kid is clearly smarter than mom here.

And already getting his butt kicked by the undeserving strivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

My kid is a legacy who would not have gotten into the top 20 that he did without that status. It wasn't alone legacy that got him in, but also the multi-million dollar gifts from his family over the last 60 years. The thing is, he worked incredibly hard--as hard as any kid could--at a very intense independent school. He is incredibly bright but has ADHD and there was just no way, despite his 6-7 hours of homework a night, meeting with teachers, ECs, all of it--and probably more than 99% of his peers--that he could get straight As. He got into great schools, just not quite as high as the one that legacy got him. He chose it anyway, with some trepidation. He says that sometimes he feels "imposter" syndrome (I explained that's not exactly what that is), but he knows he worked every bit as hard as his classmates who didn't get in. So why does he deserve it less? He worked harder than most and is highly intelligent. If you think he didn't deserve it, then your argument must be that only those with a very certain kind of intelligence, regardless of work ethic, should get in. Is that what you think?

I think it's good that your kid has imposter syndrome, you said it yourself- money bought his way in. Hopefully it weights on him

Yeah, kid is clearly smarter than mom here.

And already getting his butt kicked by the undeserving strivers.

And it's so obnoxious that she refers to other kids as "strivers" as an insult. What is wrong with working hard?

[Anonymous]

Legacy mom is obviously a troll. But, a pretty well done one because I suspect a lot of pro-legacy people are just like the troll archetype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

My kid is a legacy who would not have gotten into the top 20 that he did without that status. It wasn't alone legacy that got him in, but also the multi-million dollar gifts from his family over the last 60 years. The thing is, he worked incredibly hard--as hard as any kid could--at a very intense independent school. He is incredibly bright but has ADHD and there was just no way, despite his 6-7 hours of homework a night, meeting with teachers, ECs, all of it--and probably more than 99% of his peers--that he could get straight As. He got into great schools, just not quite as high as the one that legacy got him. He chose it anyway, with some trepidation. He says that sometimes he feels "imposter" syndrome (I explained that's not exactly what that is), but he knows he worked every bit as hard as his classmates who didn't get in. So why does he deserve it less? He worked harder than most and is highly intelligent. If you think he didn't deserve it, then your argument must be that only those with a very certain kind of intelligence, regardless of work ethic, should get in. Is that what you think?

He didn’t work harder that most. You need to dispense with that lie. He certainly did not work harder than a kid who has to work a 20-hour per week job in addition to getting higher grades than your DS. He didn’t work harder than an athlete who kept up a crushing training schedule while getting grades similar to your son’s. He didn’t work harder than a kid who had to get higher grades while also negotiating the college application system for the first time in his extended family.

Your son has figured out that his admission was based on reasons other than his own merit and accomplishments. You are bizarrely trying to create a fantasy world where that is not the case, whether to protect him or you, I don’t know. But your entire post reeks of self-delusion. Look, your DCs admission was bought and not based on his own merits. He sees it (a credit to him). It is you who are telling yourself fantasies to avoid the truth.

+1 This poster has a complex that her excessively privileged kid is a victim of unfairness of the world. Her ADHD kid could probably do nothing and live off his family's trust funds his whole life and end up better off than a first gen college student who works his butt off. But nothing will convince people like that they are privilieged. To them, they are working hard and earned every penny of their vast inherited wealth.

Oh my gosh, when did I say I didn't know I was privileged? Actually, for the record, I was not born or raised privileged. In fact, and this is especially for the jerk bashing JMU, I myself was a first-gen college student and went to JMU. I was a recruited athlete, worked hard, and then you know what I was able to do from there? Get a great job, then marry really well! Have I been privileged since I married well 20 years ago? Yep. Am I more privileged than most POC? Yes again. But you are making ridiculous assumptions about me based on my defense of legacy admissions. My son did go through hell to get through high school and yes, worked as hard as (fine, almost) any teenager you could meet. One of his best friends killed himself and a close family member dropped dead right in front of our eyes during his junior year. And this kid just kept on going. You don't know him and just because he couldn't get a straight A average doesn't make him less worthy. Frankly, being born to a wealthy father doesn't make him less worthy. Not his fault. Why aren't you bashing all the well-off private school kids who go to top colleges? Do you have a problem with them, too? Because you seem to think that anybody with some privilege doesn't deserve it. The vast vast majority of kids going to top 20 universities are getting in based on any number of criteria, the most important of which is evidence that they can do the work. So, instead of wasting so much time worrying about the rich kids who you seem to think are going to take that spot away from your kid, why not instead raise a kid who can do the work? If you weren't able to, then too bad. I guess it's JMU for him, too.

Too bad JMU didn't teach you how to make an argument. You want others to "raise a kid who can do the work". But it's perfectly fine that your kid buys a spot at an elite college.

Performance standards are for the little people, darling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Legacy mom is obviously a troll. But, a pretty well done one because I suspect a lot of pro-legacy people are just like the troll archetype.

I don't think she's a troll. A troll would make more consistent arguments. These are far too specific and nuanced and yet all over the place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

Hahaha. Hahaha. So precious. The classic disparity proves discrimination trope.

You do not think URM face racism in the US? Well, that’s a bold take.

I dare you to prove that systemic racism is what is keeping minorities down in this country, without simply asserting that whenever you see disparity between majority and URM , it proves that URMs are discriminated against. A random bigoted person on the street shouting a racist slur at me is not what is keeping me down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy mom is obviously a troll. But, a pretty well done one because I suspect a lot of pro-legacy people are just like the troll archetype.

I don't think she's a troll. A troll would make more consistent arguments. These are far too specific and nuanced and yet all over the place.

The fabrication of a background hits so many DCUM stereotypes is the tell of a troll. She is obviously a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

Hahaha. Hahaha. So precious. The classic disparity proves discrimination trope.

You do not think URM face racism in the US? Well, that’s a bold take.

I dare you to prove that systemic racism is what is keeping minorities down in this country, without simply asserting that whenever you see disparity between majority and URM , it proves that URMs are discriminated against. A random bigoted person on the street shouting a racist slur at me is not what is keeping me down

A random bigoted person on the street shouting a racial slur at you is not the same thing as systemic racism.

[Anonymous]

Everybody in this country is privileged in some way or the other ok? Don't be naive.
Just by being born American, you are more privileged than 99% of the miserable people in the rest of the world
You can see without glasses. Your are privileged
You are not obese? Your are privileged
You have all your limbs? Your are privileged
You grew up in a two parent family? You are privileged
You don't have Down's syndrome? You are privileged
You are above average in height? Your are privileged


EVERYBODY IS PRIVILEGED, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. AND EVERY PRIVILEGE CONFERS SOME MATERIAL ADVANTAGE ON THE HOLDER

The thing is, some demagogues want to focus solely on the so called privilege from lighter skin, because that gives them a way to exert more power over people by labeling others as oppressors and shirking personal responsibility in ones own choices in driving life's outcomes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

Hahaha. Hahaha. So precious. The classic disparity proves discrimination trope.

You do not think URM face racism in the US? Well, that’s a bold take.

I dare you to prove that systemic racism is what is keeping minorities down in this country, without simply asserting that whenever you see disparity between majority and URM , it proves that URMs are discriminated against. A random bigoted person on the street shouting a racist slur at me is not what is keeping me down

A random bigoted person on the street shouting a racial slur at you is not the same thing as systemic racism.

I know genius. Casual racism exists but is inconsequential to your life's outcomes is my point

[Anonymous]

Legacy admissions are not a "little boost".
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/31/opinion/legacy-admissions-should-have-no-place-todays-colleges/

Amherst, MIT, Johns Hopkins, CalTech, and Pomona College are among the selective universities that have decided to forego legacy admissions. Meanwhile at Harvard, over a third of the next graduating class at Harvard, for example, is made up of students with a relative who also attended Harvard. And this system is deeply unfair: According to a review of the top 30 colleges in the United States, legacy students were 45 percent more likely to be admitted than non-legacy students.

Ending preferential treatment to children of alums certainly won’t fix all of the problems with admissions processes, but it would contribute to a fairer system and a less insular student body. After all, legacy students tend to be rich and white — people who already have plenty of advantages — and effectively holding spots for them only makes it harder for these schools to bring in a more diverse range of students from different racial and socioeconomic backgrounds. At Notre Dame, for example, the total number of legacy students in the class of 2024 is five times the size of the total number of Black students.

While ending legacy admissions is a step in the right direction, tuition and living expenses are the biggest barrier to entry for students from low-income families. When Johns Hopkins eliminated legacy admissions, the share of legacy students declined from 12.5 percent to 3.5 percent, while the share of students who were eligible for Pell grants grew from 9 percent to 19.1 percent. Increasing spending on grant money would help bring in more students from lower-income backgrounds, as well as first-generation college students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like how the New York Times focuses on UVA in the article, putting to rest the claim by so many UVA bashers that it’s not a prestigious school and that its reputation doesn’t extend beyond the DMV. The Times frequently lumps UVA in with the nation’s top privates. You don’t see it doing that with Maryland lol.

+1000000

Bashers been real quiet lately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were a legacy or big donor kid, legacy/donor admissions would make me really question my worth. Every other admissions category comes with a personal challenge and merit. Athletes are exceptionally hard workers (I’m not one btw, but do not understand the unhinged DCUM haters). First-gen did not have the family assistance. URM have faced racism. But legacy and donor kids did literally nothing to merit their admissions. It had to mess with their heads. They must know they are only there because of pure luck. Idk. I can’t understand why people want that for their kids.

My kid is a legacy who would not have gotten into the top 20 that he did without that status. It wasn't alone legacy that got him in, but also the multi-million dollar gifts from his family over the last 60 years. The thing is, he worked incredibly hard--as hard as any kid could--at a very intense independent school. He is incredibly bright but has ADHD and there was just no way, despite his 6-7 hours of homework a night, meeting with teachers, ECs, all of it--and probably more than 99% of his peers--that he could get straight As. He got into great schools, just not quite as high as the one that legacy got him. He chose it anyway, with some trepidation. He says that sometimes he feels "imposter" syndrome (I explained that's not exactly what that is), but he knows he worked every bit as hard as his classmates who didn't get in. So why does he deserve it less? He worked harder than most and is highly intelligent. If you think he didn't deserve it, then your argument must be that only those with a very certain kind of intelligence, regardless of work ethic, should get in. Is that what you think?

I think it's good that your kid has imposter syndrome, you said it yourself- money bought his way in. Hopefully it weights on him

Yeah, kid is clearly smarter than mom here.

And already getting his butt kicked by the undeserving strivers.

The Cinderella myth, so cute. My DC1 was a Regeneron scholar and he's at a top med school now. All of the R. scholars and all of his med school class are from very affluent, connected families in the industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting rid of legacy preference does absolutely nothing. The same pool of privileged applicants will just spread themselves across the range of selective schools instead of getting funneled into the ones their parents attended. It won't create additional opportunities for another else when viewed in the aggregate.

+1

This. You get it.