What is a "donut hole family"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

Any proof that 120k HHI get aid? I do not know any one who received FINANCIAL aid in that bracket. Merit aid is completely different.

Obviously this is just an example.

https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind thinks college cost increases over the past 25 years are not exorbitant.

and congress wants to put a cap on nurses pay, come on let's put some regulations around college costs.

I don’t disagree with you, at all. But I still don’t believe there’s any such thing as a donut hole family.

You are right. There is no such thing as a donut hole family. There are only families who refuse to liquidate their retirement funds, forgo their annual week at the beach, sell or remortgage their family homes, work until they are 80. These people are selfish and stingy when they choose not to pay $320K per child and rising for their kids' undergraduate degrees, because if they only tried a little harder, they could pull it off. Cheapskates.

Are you so blind to reality that you don't realize there are options between $320k/kid and "your kids can't go to college"? If you can't try a little harder to save, then try a little harder to master a cost/benefit analysis. If your vacation is an annual week at the beach, then expensive private schools are not for you! Send Larlo to Whatever State Tech and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Isn't this the problem? Expensive schools are for the wealthy....??? wtf?? Can you not see a problem with what you typed?

No, it's not a problem. Feeling entitled to go the most expensive school around is the problem. Expensive shit is for wealthy people. Duh. Do you also demand your own private plane?

I went to a state school. Because I was not wealthy. I was accepted to a few very expensive private colleges that I applied to "just to see." And when I realized I couldn't go there because I couldn't afford it, I moved on. I invite you to try it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind thinks college cost increases over the past 25 years are not exorbitant.

and congress wants to put a cap on nurses pay, come on let's put some regulations around college costs.

I don’t disagree with you, at all. But I still don’t believe there’s any such thing as a donut hole family.

You are right. There is no such thing as a donut hole family. There are only families who refuse to liquidate their retirement funds, forgo their annual week at the beach, sell or remortgage their family homes, work until they are 80. These people are selfish and stingy when they choose not to pay $320K per child and rising for their kids' undergraduate degrees, because if they only tried a little harder, they could pull it off. Cheapskates.

Are you so blind to reality that you don't realize there are options between $320k/kid and "your kids can't go to college"? If you can't try a little harder to save, then try a little harder to master a cost/benefit analysis. If your vacation is an annual week at the beach, then expensive private schools are not for you! Send Larlo to Whatever State Tech and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Isn't this the problem? Expensive schools are for the wealthy....??? wtf?? Can you not see a problem with what you typed?

No, it's not a problem. Feeling entitled to go the most expensive school around is the problem. Expensive shit is for wealthy people. Duh. Do you also demand your own private plane?

I went to a state school. Because I was not wealthy. I was accepted to a few very expensive private colleges that I applied to "just to see." And when I realized I couldn't go there because I couldn't afford it, I moved on. I invite you to try it.

My family household income when I went to college was less than the tuition for that year....I completely get going where you can afford, trust me. DC is happily ensconced at a state school that is so frowned upon here (JMU) and I am so proud of how hard he had to work to get there. We are able to full pay out of pocket due to life circumstances...including that he's an only. Dh and I both went to no-name small school that would be laughed at here, and are both very successful. So I have "tried it".

That said, I am responding to the attitude portrayed here of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality and the complete lack of awareness of the realities of trying to go to college and paying for it and being in so much debt, and that is with doing all the "don't buy more expensive groceries" bullcrap mentioned here. Save when they are born? Do you know how much childcare is at birth? $1000 per child per month. How does a normal household manage that and saving for each child?

I get that I'm wasting my breath now. Moving on. There will be no understanding.

[Anonymous]

I think the fact that top 25 universities and SLACs are no longer affordable for the middle class has contributed to the resentment of coastal elites and the rise of Trumpism. The FAFSA is structured in such a way that elite colleges are now comprised of either full pay (the top 2% of US households) or substantial need. No one is going to those colleges who is representative of what is left of the American middle class. This is not a new problem---it was around when I applied to college in the 1980s as well---though it has gotten a lot worse given that college costs have skyrocketed well past average consumer price increases over the last 3 decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind thinks college cost increases over the past 25 years are not exorbitant.

and congress wants to put a cap on nurses pay, come on let's put some regulations around college costs.

I don’t disagree with you, at all. But I still don’t believe there’s any such thing as a donut hole family.

You are right. There is no such thing as a donut hole family. There are only families who refuse to liquidate their retirement funds, forgo their annual week at the beach, sell or remortgage their family homes, work until they are 80. These people are selfish and stingy when they choose not to pay $320K per child and rising for their kids' undergraduate degrees, because if they only tried a little harder, they could pull it off. Cheapskates.

Are you so blind to reality that you don't realize there are options between $320k/kid and "your kids can't go to college"? If you can't try a little harder to save, then try a little harder to master a cost/benefit analysis. If your vacation is an annual week at the beach, then expensive private schools are not for you! Send Larlo to Whatever State Tech and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Isn't this the problem? Expensive schools are for the wealthy....??? wtf?? Can you not see a problem with what you typed?

No, it's not a problem. Feeling entitled to go the most expensive school around is the problem. Expensive shit is for wealthy people. Duh. Do you also demand your own private plane?

I went to a state school. Because I was not wealthy. I was accepted to a few very expensive private colleges that I applied to "just to see." And when I realized I couldn't go there because I couldn't afford it, I moved on. I invite you to try it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind thinks college cost increases over the past 25 years are not exorbitant.

and congress wants to put a cap on nurses pay, come on let's put some regulations around college costs.

I don’t disagree with you, at all. But I still don’t believe there’s any such thing as a donut hole family.

You are right. There is no such thing as a donut hole family. There are only families who refuse to liquidate their retirement funds, forgo their annual week at the beach, sell or remortgage their family homes, work until they are 80. These people are selfish and stingy when they choose not to pay $320K per child and rising for their kids' undergraduate degrees, because if they only tried a little harder, they could pull it off. Cheapskates.

Are you so blind to reality that you don't realize there are options between $320k/kid and "your kids can't go to college"? If you can't try a little harder to save, then try a little harder to master a cost/benefit analysis. If your vacation is an annual week at the beach, then expensive private schools are not for you! Send Larlo to Whatever State Tech and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Isn't this the problem? Expensive schools are for the wealthy....??? wtf?? Can you not see a problem with what you typed?

No, it's not a problem. Feeling entitled to go the most expensive school around is the problem. Expensive shit is for wealthy people. Duh. Do you also demand your own private plane?

I went to a state school. Because I was not wealthy. I was accepted to a few very expensive private colleges that I applied to "just to see." And when I realized I couldn't go there because I couldn't afford it, I moved on. I invite you to try it.

My family household income when I went to college was less than the tuition for that year....I completely get going where you can afford, trust me. DC is happily ensconced at a state school that is so frowned upon here (JMU) and I am so proud of how hard he had to work to get there. We are able to full pay out of pocket due to life circumstances...including that he's an only. Dh and I both went to no-name small school that would be laughed at here, and are both very successful. So I have "tried it".

That said, I am responding to the attitude portrayed here of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality and the complete lack of awareness of the realities of trying to go to college and paying for it and being in so much debt, and that is with doing all the "don't buy more expensive groceries" bullcrap mentioned here. Save when they are born? Do you know how much childcare is at birth? $1000 per child per month. How does a normal household manage that and saving for each child?

I get that I'm wasting my breath now. Moving on. There will be no understanding.

I didn't tell anyone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps or stop buying avocados. If you want to talk to those people, feel free.

But instead you responded to my comment. The comments I responded to are specifically about "expensive private colleges." Not just getting into or attending them, but affording them "reasonably" and "comfortably." Those are stupid expectations. Being upset that something that you know up front is expensive turns out to be expensive is stupid. Feeling like expensive private colleges should fit comfortably into your budget, and if they don't then we need societal overhaul, is entitled. And the best part is these same whiners are SO VERY OFFENDED that actual poor kids get help. They deserve that help, not the stupid poors! Why should they forego a close-in SFH and weekly beach vacations to save when food insecure kids are getting grants? It's not fair that this "expensive private college" doesn't "comfortably" fit into my budget!! Wahh wahh wahh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I think the fact that top 25 universities and SLACs are no longer affordable for the middle class has contributed to the resentment of coastal elites and the rise of Trumpism. The FAFSA is structured in such a way that elite colleges are now comprised of either full pay (the top 2% of US households) or substantial need. No one is going to those colleges who is representative of what is left of the American middle class. This is not a new problem---it was around when I applied to college in the 1980s as well---though it has gotten a lot worse given that college costs have skyrocketed well past average consumer price increases over the last 3 decades.

And rightly so. Especially considering a lot of the so called "coastal elites" save like hell for their kids education only to be denied admission. I propose that we withdraw all tax support for schools with an endowment level and/or annual tuition exceeding a certain thresholds (say $2B/$40,000). A selective SLAC may choose to increase fees by 25% to compensate knowing fully well there will be takers. Another might cut fees to keep costs down because they are more woke and still get the tax benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

Any proof that 120k HHI get aid? I do not know any one who received FINANCIAL aid in that bracket. Merit aid is completely different.

https://admission.princeton.edu/who-qualifies-aid

You are welcome!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind thinks college cost increases over the past 25 years are not exorbitant.

and congress wants to put a cap on nurses pay, come on let's put some regulations around college costs.

I don’t disagree with you, at all. But I still don’t believe there’s any such thing as a donut hole family.

You are right. There is no such thing as a donut hole family. There are only families who refuse to liquidate their retirement funds, forgo their annual week at the beach, sell or remortgage their family homes, work until they are 80. These people are selfish and stingy when they choose not to pay $320K per child and rising for their kids' undergraduate degrees, because if they only tried a little harder, they could pull it off. Cheapskates.

Are you so blind to reality that you don't realize there are options between $320k/kid and "your kids can't go to college"? If you can't try a little harder to save, then try a little harder to master a cost/benefit analysis. If your vacation is an annual week at the beach, then expensive private schools are not for you! Send Larlo to Whatever State Tech and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Isn't this the problem? Expensive schools are for the wealthy....??? wtf?? Can you not see a problem with what you typed?

No, it's not a problem. Feeling entitled to go the most expensive school around is the problem. Expensive shit is for wealthy people. Duh. Do you also demand your own private plane?

I went to a state school. Because I was not wealthy. I was accepted to a few very expensive private colleges that I applied to "just to see." And when I realized I couldn't go there because I couldn't afford it, I moved on. I invite you to try it.

Comparing higher education to luxury consumer goods would only happen here in the United States of America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

Any proof that 120k HHI get aid? I do not know any one who received FINANCIAL aid in that bracket. Merit aid is completely different.

https://admission.princeton.edu/who-qualifies-aid

You are welcome!

So Harvard and Princeton.

GMFB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind thinks college cost increases over the past 25 years are not exorbitant.

and congress wants to put a cap on nurses pay, come on let's put some regulations around college costs.

I don’t disagree with you, at all. But I still don’t believe there’s any such thing as a donut hole family.

You are right. There is no such thing as a donut hole family. There are only families who refuse to liquidate their retirement funds, forgo their annual week at the beach, sell or remortgage their family homes, work until they are 80. These people are selfish and stingy when they choose not to pay $320K per child and rising for their kids' undergraduate degrees, because if they only tried a little harder, they could pull it off. Cheapskates.

Are you so blind to reality that you don't realize there are options between $320k/kid and "your kids can't go to college"? If you can't try a little harder to save, then try a little harder to master a cost/benefit analysis. If your vacation is an annual week at the beach, then expensive private schools are not for you! Send Larlo to Whatever State Tech and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Isn't this the problem? Expensive schools are for the wealthy....??? wtf?? Can you not see a problem with what you typed?

No, it's not a problem. Feeling entitled to go the most expensive school around is the problem. Expensive shit is for wealthy people. Duh. Do you also demand your own private plane?

I went to a state school. Because I was not wealthy. I was accepted to a few very expensive private colleges that I applied to "just to see." And when I realized I couldn't go there because I couldn't afford it, I moved on. I invite you to try it.

Comparing higher education to luxury consumer goods would only happen here in the United States of America.

It's not higher education. It's "expensive private" higher education, which is a luxury good and always has been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

Any proof that 120k HHI get aid? I do not know any one who received FINANCIAL aid in that bracket. Merit aid is completely different.

https://admission.princeton.edu/who-qualifies-aid

You are welcome!

So Harvard and Princeton.

GMFB

Rice

https://financialaid.rice.edu/

[Anonymous]

I think part of the problem with comparing a college education to buying a luxury car is that these more elite educations to open doors. They absolutely do, for many careers.

[Anonymous]

We could also go about this the other way and build up the many wonderful public colleges and universities. So the top 25 aren’t always expensive private colleges and universities.

This is already true with many of the UCs, Michigan, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill … but it would be nice to add more to the list of the “best universities.” Then again, maybe the rankings are part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the problem with comparing a college education to buying a luxury car is that these more elite educations to open doors. They absolutely do, for many careers.

Those doors are for the rich combined with enough URM and poor kids so that the enrollment numbers don't look hilarious