What is a "donut hole family"?

[Anonymous]

“Pew defines “middle class” as a person earning between two-thirds and twice the median American household income, which in 2019 was $68,703, according to the United States Census Bureau.”

That puts middle class between $137,406 and $45,343.

Most people posting here are NOT middle class. Get out of your clueless and entitled bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder what the atmosphere is like at these expensive private schools. With really no middle class kids there at all. Doesn’t sound like a nice environment.

+1. Something to think about

What are you guys talking about? Middle class people are there and going for free.

No, if they are there, it is because the parents took out Plus loans. You have to be pretty poor to get aid that isn’t a loan.

No, it really depends on the school. Top tier, there are middle class (under 120k annual) going on free tuition. I get that this is not the case at mid/lower tier or OOS, but many of those offer merit. Not sure I would refer to 200k+ people as middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:new poster here

Wow. I thought we were a "donut hole" family but I guess not.

What is a step below "donut hole" called? We make too much to qualify for aid, but paying for an expensive school would involve far more than "liquidating assets." It would be more like taking on a second full time job, skipping at least one meal a day, absolutely zero entertainment budget (not even cable tv or netflix) etc.

Well, there is this thing that you had 18 years to save for college. Which is what most people do.

You're assuming stagnant incomes. We have a HHI of about 225k and one in 7th and one in 8th. Three hears ago HHI was 150k. When the kids start college it will be about 250k if we continue on the same track. 160k a year in tuition is both not possible and not a number that we ever could have saved for on our incomes.

It's also laughable that PP thinks "most people" save for college for 18 years. I mean, GTFO.

Just because you didn't save, doesn't meant eh rest of us haven't. We have a $160K or so income, much less just a few years ago. We saved starting at birth. You live in a cheap house, no fancy groceries, very few vacations, old cars...

Cool story bro.

Still most haven’t.

Enjoy the loans, bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

[Anonymous]

It's ridiculous how expensive college has become. So much useless administrative bloat and all those gilded massage rooms for the foopball buffs. Colleges should not be permitted to use the FAFSA process to figure out how to plunder the absolute maximum possible amount of a family's life savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Pew defines “middle class” as a person earning between two-thirds and twice the median American household income, which in 2019 was $68,703, according to the United States Census Bureau.”

That puts middle class between $137,406 and $45,343.

Most people posting here are NOT middle class. Get out of your clueless and entitled bubble.

But cost of living matters too.
Someone making $137,000 living in Dayton Ohio is going to be living a LOT nicer than someone making $137,000 living in DC.

Family size too. A family of 3 (two parents and one kid) will live a lot better on $137,000 than a family of 7 (single parent and six kids.)

[Anonymous]

Teach your kids about these matters. They need to know the costs of housing and insurance and college tuitions etc. If they are going to make good choices about their futures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Pew defines “middle class” as a person earning between two-thirds and twice the median American household income, which in 2019 was $68,703, according to the United States Census Bureau.”

That puts middle class between $137,406 and $45,343.

Most people posting here are NOT middle class. Get out of your clueless and entitled bubble.

But cost of living matters too.
Someone making $137,000 living in Dayton Ohio is going to be living a LOT nicer than someone making $137,000 living in DC.

Family size too. A family of 3 (two parents and one kid) will live a lot better on $137,000 than a family of 7 (single parent and six kids.)

I think the scale might account for cost of living. The $137k would be middle class for the more expensive areas. That's about what we make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:new poster here

Wow. I thought we were a "donut hole" family but I guess not.

What is a step below "donut hole" called? We make too much to qualify for aid, but paying for an expensive school would involve far more than "liquidating assets." It would be more like taking on a second full time job, skipping at least one meal a day, absolutely zero entertainment budget (not even cable tv or netflix) etc.

Well, there is this thing that you had 18 years to save for college. Which is what most people do.

You're assuming stagnant incomes. We have a HHI of about 225k and one in 7th and one in 8th. Three hears ago HHI was 150k. When the kids start college it will be about 250k if we continue on the same track. 160k a year in tuition is both not possible and not a number that we ever could have saved for on our incomes.

It's also laughable that PP thinks "most people" save for college for 18 years. I mean, GTFO.

Just because you didn't save, doesn't meant eh rest of us haven't. We have a $160K or so income, much less just a few years ago. We saved starting at birth. You live in a cheap house, no fancy groceries, very few vacations, old cars...

Cool story bro.

Still most haven’t.

Enjoy the loans, bro.

My work paid for their college, one of those fake merit scholarships where your work awards your kids with aid and it's not taxed. Get with the program, glad you saved and scrimped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

$150 is not getting you full merit aid, but yea, do the math do what works for your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder what the atmosphere is like at these expensive private schools. With really no middle class kids there at all. Doesn’t sound like a nice environment.

+1. Something to think about

What are you guys talking about? Middle class people are there and going for free.

No, if they are there, it is because the parents took out Plus loans. You have to be pretty poor to get aid that isn’t a loan.

No, it really depends on the school. Top tier, there are middle class (under 120k annual) going on free tuition. I get that this is not the case at mid/lower tier or OOS, but many of those offer merit. Not sure I would refer to 200k+ people as middle class.

I agree this is true at Harvard, Princeton and Yale. There are many, many other “top tier” schools that provide no aid to the middle class. Fordham, GW, and many others come to mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Pew defines “middle class” as a person earning between two-thirds and twice the median American household income, which in 2019 was $68,703, according to the United States Census Bureau.”

That puts middle class between $137,406 and $45,343.

Most people posting here are NOT middle class. Get out of your clueless and entitled bubble.

But cost of living matters too.
Someone making $137,000 living in Dayton Ohio is going to be living a LOT nicer than someone making $137,000 living in DC.

Family size too. A family of 3 (two parents and one kid) will live a lot better on $137,000 than a family of 7 (single parent and six kids.)

I think the scale might account for cost of living. The $137k would be middle class for the more expensive areas. That's about what we make.

Right. PP seems to think that middle class lifestyle is more than what it actually is. I was middle class as a single mom (making $80k when I got married), even in DC. We didn't have much extra but we had what we needed and had a little left for fun stuff.

Now I'm UMC because I married someone who makes a little bit more than I do, and we're very comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who do not qualify for financial aid, but whose real economic situation means they can't afford expensive colleges even if their kids are admitted. They are the families whose kids turn down Carnegie Mellon and take the merit award at Pitt.

But can’t they/don’t they take out loans to pay the tuition?

A family earning around 250k is not going to take out loans to cover the 50k a year difference in cost between publics and privates for multiple kids unless they are utterly terrible with money

If they made $199k do they get aid?

I think the magic number is 120K for a lot of aid, $150 gets some

So if they drop their income down to 150 k they get aid. So give up 100K in income to get aid or keep the high income and pay the tuition bill. What is the difference?

Any proof that 120k HHI get aid? I do not know any one who received FINANCIAL aid in that bracket. Merit aid is completely different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re in that donut hole, mostly because we have three kids. But one went to UMD, one went to OOS flagship on merit scholarship (and will graduate early with APs), and one is still in high school.

All three want careers where they have to go to grad school so it didn’t make sense for us to go overboard with loans etc. for undergrad. Plus I’m still paying off my own student loan (but it will be paid off this summer)!

But the UMD kid just got into a bunch of top notch grad programs, including an Ivy. So I don’t think we really needed to pay all that extra money for a Carnegie Mellon undergrad (for example). Maybe it’s worth it if your kid isn’t going to grad school? It wasn’t for us.

Congrats to your kid!

Thank you. It’s so nice to see his hard work (including about a year mostly virtual) pay off. He really put his nose to the grindstone during covid.

I do recall conversations back in high school about not wanting to go to a public university when several of his friends were going to elite private schools. He recently said to us “wow I really didn’t need to go to one of those expensive high-end schools, did I?”. Nope, you didn’t kid. You just needed to study hard and get involved in things at a really good public university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a public school grad and happy to send my kid to a public or to a less competitive school with merit aid if she can get it. I don't think people who go to Ivies are automatically smarter or even better educated -- I've worked with many and it's just not the case.

However, this thread is FULL of people who are basically saying that middle class families should know their place. It's... gross. 90% of college threads on this site are about how important it is to go to an "elite" or name brand school, and now when people who can't afford those schools complain that they can't afford those schools, it's " why can't you be happy with a public school, not everyone has to go to Harvard?" I am happy with my own education and will be happy with wherever my DD goes, but I do find the attitude that people like us shouldn't aspire to going to these colleges pretty offensive. I would have done well at an Ivy -- I was a straight A student who loved school and had great study habits, and I later did very well at an "elite" law school. The fact that its was not possible for me to go without bankrupting my family is weird. It worked out fine, but it's weird to think that's an appropriate outcome.

This. 100%