Valor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

Where's the gigantic multi year thread of parents complaining about Vienna?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

And Great Falls and Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

Our coach is also mediocre at best. I feel like us parents are bending over to accommodate everything, and the coach just shows up, stands around, gives a few directions and then disappears right after practice. Making sure nobody can catch up to him and ask a question. I am considering moving my kid go STJFC or Loudoun next year.

I would talk to the Technical Director and have your kid ID at the TSJ or any other club (attend a practice session). If we stayed with Valor, my kid would have been sitting around 5 divisions lower in the league. If you unhappy, start shopping around for a new car. Nothing wrong with that at all. Sitting around a club to wait to things to happen is not a good strategy. A good coach vs a bad coach will become noticeably very transparent within that first engagement. It was for me. Valor will take anyone that has a heartbeat for their lower-level teams. I would advise you to think about staying unless your pre-academy or number 2 team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

Thats complete BS. We left, now we are on pre-academy...and yes, much higher in the division than the last team than what they offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

And Great Falls and Bethesda.

No way. There aren't hundreds of parents complaining (just on this one obscure corner of the internet) about any other club besides Valor. Valor is clearly the dumpster fire of DMV pay to play soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Finally, an honest and valuable comment from a parent. Agree. Don't wait for the club to come through. We sought out and looked for a good coach, not the club. My kids practiced with several other clubs before we down selected. Keep your options open. Lots of your resources go into these activities and you should get the best value (coach) out of it as much as possible. To be fair, I will say there is a limit to what significant improvement you will see with any coach. Unless you're willing to lower your expectations, its time and more time on the ball that will improve your kid's performance. Your kid should be touching the ball for at least 20 minutes a day in some fashion. If not, you're not going to see much of an improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are taking our dc to try out for Burke (It is almost half the price!), Herndon and FC Dulles. We want a smaller club experience.

Our crap Valor coach keeps combining practices with his other team and barely knows the kids names. He has never coached soccer before! Why he has multiple teams I do not know.

Which age group/gender? That seems odd.

Not odd at all if the coach is greedy. Our coach did it all last spring (combined two teams for practicing). He is getting paid to coach two teams with separate practices. Combining practices is more lucrative for him. I heard from another family he was doing private lessons on the field space he was supposed to be practicing on.

Well hopefully he's (or she) is being reported up as that is wrong on many levels. What was surprised from the other post is someone coaching multiple (assuming travel) teams that had NEVER coached before? I would think everyone would realize that is a disaster waiting to happen if true.

Valor has MANY coaches for their 2nd-5th teams who are completely new to coaching. They hire any warm body.

Are there any clubs that don't do that?

How should anyone know the hiring practices of a thousand local soccer clubs? Valor does it. If you want a non-parent or experienced coach, avoid Valor.

Yeah i get that. Where in the local area should I be looking of my kid that is not currently a top team kid. Where exactly can they find a good coach for a second team. Saying avoid Valor doesn't help to pick a better club.

Depends on how far your willing to drive? For me, the threshold is 25 minutes.

Ha, go back to rec then. If you can't even deal with a 30min drive travel is not for you.

For season games and tournaments, there's no specific threshold for me, but for weekly club practices, that's the threshold. You might have missed the language, but the original poster mentioned "Where in the local Area", assuming you are affected by some sort of learning or reading disorder since you missed that specific detail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

Where's the gigantic multi year thread of parents complaining about Vienna?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1201742.page#27417707

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

Where's the gigantic multi year thread of parents complaining about Vienna?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1201742.page#27417707

That thread is only SIX pages. This one is 140!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

Where's the gigantic multi year thread of parents complaining about Vienna?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1201742.page#27417707

That thread is only SIX pages. This one is 140!

That's about right for the size of both clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

Where's the gigantic multi year thread of parents complaining about Vienna?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1201742.page#27417707

That thread is only SIX pages. This one is 140!

That's about right for the size of both clubs.

Not even close to even, vienna has had travel teams for decades while valor has only been around for 3? years. There should mathematically be many more complaints against Vienna.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe we are discussing the quality of a lower level team at Valor. Do you think it's different at any club? Your kid is placed at the level that he/she belongs and if that isn't good enough for you feel free to fish but you will end up with the same. Focus on personal development.

I'm a Valor parent with a child on the top team and am happy with my kid's experience and coaching. I can attest that the lack of quality of the lower teams at least in my son's age group. Whether that's based on talent or coaching or a combination of the two, I have no idea.

IMO - this whole thread can be summed up as: if your child can make either the top team or second team, they are most likely going to have a quality coach. After that - you run the risk of less talented teammates and lower quality coaching for the same price as the top team. Think that through before you commit.

Not so fast. I’d take my younger child’s rec team volunteer coach over my older child’s paid top team coach at Valor right now. We can see the growth in the rec team since September. Not so much with the travel team that has been practicing twice as much since August.

It has nothing to do with a REC coach vs a travel coach. I have no licenses but played all life through college and coached my son's U5-U9 team and a few of them went onto competitive travel teams. I can probably out coach/train most in this area. It's all about the coach and his/her knowledge of the game and ability to transfer that knowledge in a meaningful way to the player. Being a travel coach just means you were licensed which means pretty much nothing.

If i was paying $3000 which is PREMIUM level pricing for u-little, NCSL league soccer, I would expect a great, credentialed, experienced, professional coach. Not a parent coach (so many issues with having a parent coach!).

This is not the club for you, in that case. This is the club for people who don't know any better.

In reality though is the complaint we paid too much for a shitty experience and could have paid less but still be in the same situation? No where am I seeing any of the clubs in this vicinity as having better comments on this forum. Just maybe a few hundred dollars cheaper.

R u serious? No other local club has 150
Pages of complaints. Valor charges the most for the worst experience.

Vienna is worse

Where's the gigantic multi year thread of parents complaining about Vienna?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1201742.page#27417707

That thread is only SIX pages. This one is 140!

That's about right for the size of both clubs.

Not even close to even, vienna has had travel teams for decades while valor has only been around for 3? years. There should mathematically be many more complaints against Vienna.

Don't worry there are plenty of complaints. Valor may only be 3 years old, but it is a combination of 2 full sized former clubs merging.

[Anonymous]

Valor admin just naming clubs at random trying to change the topic. We are discussing how Valor sucks, stay focused people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Valor admin just naming clubs at random trying to change the topic. We are discussing how Valor sucks, stay focused people.

Yep, its so obviously transparent. Valor Guy, everyone thinks your program sucks.