ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

If that is the best you have, then yes, trapped is gone.

When you are so ungrateful that you got to send your kid to school a year early that you feel that everything else should revolve around you, there is no making you happy. In these cases, finding a private school where you can make a large donation and alter the rules is your best bet.

People shouldn't forget that a school cut off is the minimum age, typically 5 years old. They actually aren't required to start until 6 or 7. That's a bigger window then anyone talks about in these discussions and where they lose the nuance of it all.

People shouldn't forget that P2P travel soccer isn't school soccer. No nuance.

That's true -- But having 0 nuance is a better argument for BY, because switching to Seasonal Year just causes confusion with the laudable effort to better (but not perfect align) with School Year. In the end, we won't have GY but I think you're going to see a ton of carveouts that seek to address kids being in different grades, especially when you get to 8th grade and HS.

Nope, 8/1 worked before without carveouts. BY is over.

This. 8/1 was the cutoff for decades before the change to BY in 2017. No carve outs were needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

If that is the best you have, then yes, trapped is gone.

When you are so ungrateful that you got to send your kid to school a year early that you feel that everything else should revolve around you, there is no making you happy. In these cases, finding a private school where you can make a large donation and alter the rules is your best bet.

People shouldn't forget that a school cut off is the minimum age, typically 5 years old. They actually aren't required to start until 6 or 7. That's a bigger window then anyone talks about in these discussions and where they lose the nuance of it all.

People shouldn't forget that P2P travel soccer isn't school soccer. No nuance.

That's true -- But having 0 nuance is a better argument for BY, because switching to Seasonal Year just causes confusion with the laudable effort to better (but not perfect align) with School Year. In the end, we won't have GY but I think you're going to see a ton of carveouts that seek to address kids being in different grades, especially when you get to 8th grade and HS.

Nope, 8/1 worked before without carveouts. BY is over.

This. 8/1 was the cutoff for decades before the change to BY in 2017. No carve outs were needed.

Except they exist now, even in BY (and probably did back then, too, because not every state has the same cut offs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

Let’s not be intellectually dishonest. A large percentage of the time, when kids are held back and dont follow school cut off dates, their parents are looking for some type of “advantage”, be it academic or athletic. Let’s not waste any time worrying about them not fitting and being “held back trapped”. They will make up for it by being the oldest kid in the class taking the ACT or being the oldest freshman in high school.

For those that are truly held back for legitimate reasons, well, those aren’t the kids usually going to UVA on a soccer scholarship so probably not an issue to begin with.

Is it an advantage these parents seek OR did their kid struggle in preschool? Why is it do some always think every decision is just seeking an angle? That's not how everyone is.

Let’s just say I have been in NOVA long enough to have data beyond the anecdotal as to why kids are held back and it very very rarely that they struggled in preschool. But yes, that does happen occasionally. But we cant make rules that are 100% so i will settle for rules that eliminate 99.9% of trapped kids.

I doubt the number is that high, but it so would have been alot better for misalignment to go with 9/1. All the AUG kids that started on time are in a tough spot now.

Tougher to have a choice to play up or down vs August kids in 30% of the states with an 8-1 start date that are really and truly trapped? Nope.

Let me rephrase for all the pedantic parents out there. An 8-1 soccer cut off eliminates 99.9% of trapped kids that are not held back for whatever reason. ALL other kids, misaligned or otherwise, that are not held back, have a CHOICE to play within the 12 month window OR play up with their current grade on whatever team their talent indicates they should be.

Those kids with August birthdays are all fine. Yes, if they CHOOSE to stay with their grade, they will be a couple of weeks younger than a 12 month window. If that prevents them from being a great player, then they probably weren’t a great player to begin with.

4-6% of kids are redshirted each year. Trapped kids won't be eliminated.

1. If you actually read what I posted you will note I said 99.9% of kids NOT HELD BACK
2. If you choose to not follow school enrollment guidelines for whatever reason, you forfeit your right to complain about being trapped in my opinion. You dont hear about parents that follow the rules complaining about your kid being older and more mature and having more time to learn math and reading thereby getting a higher ACT score than their kid do you?
3. Taking the held back kid to the extreme, should we make allowances for kids help back 2 months? 6 months? 18 months? It is just stupid.

All these hold backs will still get their glory in high school for 4 years being older than they should be for their grade. They will even be able to flex on everyone their senior years since they wont have anyone else to play except the younger kids.

The GY people want to do this with club soccer. They want to hold their stupid kid back in school so they have a physical advantage over everyone else in their grade. If they get what they want soccer will be like football, basketball, and lacrosse with 16 year old freshman / 20 year old seniors playing against kids often 2 years younger.

Oh and clubs will make less $$$ because nobody will play on a 2nd or 3rd team if everyone on the 1st team is 2 years older.

Maybe too many parents RUSH their kids to school too early?

Found the private school 16 year old freshman parent.

Im sorry you listened to the private school nonsense about regrading your kid. Have fun playing in HS because you wont play club soccer. Unless your kid plays in the appropate age grouo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

Let’s not be intellectually dishonest. A large percentage of the time, when kids are held back and dont follow school cut off dates, their parents are looking for some type of “advantage”, be it academic or athletic. Let’s not waste any time worrying about them not fitting and being “held back trapped”. They will make up for it by being the oldest kid in the class taking the ACT or being the oldest freshman in high school.

For those that are truly held back for legitimate reasons, well, those aren’t the kids usually going to UVA on a soccer scholarship so probably not an issue to begin with.

Is it an advantage these parents seek OR did their kid struggle in preschool? Why is it do some always think every decision is just seeking an angle? That's not how everyone is.

Let’s just say I have been in NOVA long enough to have data beyond the anecdotal as to why kids are held back and it very very rarely that they struggled in preschool. But yes, that does happen occasionally. But we cant make rules that are 100% so i will settle for rules that eliminate 99.9% of trapped kids.

I doubt the number is that high, but it so would have been alot better for misalignment to go with 9/1. All the AUG kids that started on time are in a tough spot now.

Tougher to have a choice to play up or down vs August kids in 30% of the states with an 8-1 start date that are really and truly trapped? Nope.

Let me rephrase for all the pedantic parents out there. An 8-1 soccer cut off eliminates 99.9% of trapped kids that are not held back for whatever reason. ALL other kids, misaligned or otherwise, that are not held back, have a CHOICE to play within the 12 month window OR play up with their current grade on whatever team their talent indicates they should be.

Those kids with August birthdays are all fine. Yes, if they CHOOSE to stay with their grade, they will be a couple of weeks younger than a 12 month window. If that prevents them from being a great player, then they probably weren’t a great player to begin with.

4-6% of kids are redshirted each year. Trapped kids won't be eliminated.

1. If you actually read what I posted you will note I said 99.9% of kids NOT HELD BACK
2. If you choose to not follow school enrollment guidelines for whatever reason, you forfeit your right to complain about being trapped in my opinion. You dont hear about parents that follow the rules complaining about your kid being older and more mature and having more time to learn math and reading thereby getting a higher ACT score than their kid do you?
3. Taking the held back kid to the extreme, should we make allowances for kids help back 2 months? 6 months? 18 months? It is just stupid.

All these hold backs will still get their glory in high school for 4 years being older than they should be for their grade. They will even be able to flex on everyone their senior years since they wont have anyone else to play except the younger kids.

The GY people want to do this with club soccer. They want to hold their stupid kid back in school so they have a physical advantage over everyone else in their grade. If they get what they want soccer will be like football, basketball, and lacrosse with 16 year old freshman / 20 year old seniors playing against kids often 2 years younger.

Oh and clubs will make less $$$ because nobody will play on a 2nd or 3rd team if everyone on the 1st team is 2 years older.

Maybe too many parents RUSH their kids to school too early?

Found the private school 16 year old freshman parent.

Im sorry you listened to the private school nonsense about regrading your kid. Have fun playing in HS because you wont play club soccer. Unless your kid plays in the appropate age grouo.

That's not me, BUT all this really means is the kid is trapped (and needs to figure something out for those 3 months). Doesn't mean they don't play club soccer and there's a ton of kids who don't play HS soccer, especially when the level is low in their case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

Let’s not be intellectually dishonest. A large percentage of the time, when kids are held back and dont follow school cut off dates, their parents are looking for some type of “advantage”, be it academic or athletic. Let’s not waste any time worrying about them not fitting and being “held back trapped”. They will make up for it by being the oldest kid in the class taking the ACT or being the oldest freshman in high school.

For those that are truly held back for legitimate reasons, well, those aren’t the kids usually going to UVA on a soccer scholarship so probably not an issue to begin with.

Is it an advantage these parents seek OR did their kid struggle in preschool? Why is it do some always think every decision is just seeking an angle? That's not how everyone is.

Let’s just say I have been in NOVA long enough to have data beyond the anecdotal as to why kids are held back and it very very rarely that they struggled in preschool. But yes, that does happen occasionally. But we cant make rules that are 100% so i will settle for rules that eliminate 99.9% of trapped kids.

I doubt the number is that high, but it so would have been alot better for misalignment to go with 9/1. All the AUG kids that started on time are in a tough spot now.

Tougher to have a choice to play up or down vs August kids in 30% of the states with an 8-1 start date that are really and truly trapped? Nope.

Let me rephrase for all the pedantic parents out there. An 8-1 soccer cut off eliminates 99.9% of trapped kids that are not held back for whatever reason. ALL other kids, misaligned or otherwise, that are not held back, have a CHOICE to play within the 12 month window OR play up with their current grade on whatever team their talent indicates they should be.

Those kids with August birthdays are all fine. Yes, if they CHOOSE to stay with their grade, they will be a couple of weeks younger than a 12 month window. If that prevents them from being a great player, then they probably weren’t a great player to begin with.

4-6% of kids are redshirted each year. Trapped kids won't be eliminated.

1. If you actually read what I posted you will note I said 99.9% of kids NOT HELD BACK
2. If you choose to not follow school enrollment guidelines for whatever reason, you forfeit your right to complain about being trapped in my opinion. You dont hear about parents that follow the rules complaining about your kid being older and more mature and having more time to learn math and reading thereby getting a higher ACT score than their kid do you?
3. Taking the held back kid to the extreme, should we make allowances for kids help back 2 months? 6 months? 18 months? It is just stupid.

All these hold backs will still get their glory in high school for 4 years being older than they should be for their grade. They will even be able to flex on everyone their senior years since they wont have anyone else to play except the younger kids.

The GY people want to do this with club soccer. They want to hold their stupid kid back in school so they have a physical advantage over everyone else in their grade. If they get what they want soccer will be like football, basketball, and lacrosse with 16 year old freshman / 20 year old seniors playing against kids often 2 years younger.

Oh and clubs will make less $$$ because nobody will play on a 2nd or 3rd team if everyone on the 1st team is 2 years older.

Maybe too many parents RUSH their kids to school too early?

Found the private school 16 year old freshman parent.

Im sorry you listened to the private school nonsense about regrading your kid. Have fun playing in HS because you wont play club soccer. Unless your kid plays in the appropate age grouo.

That's not me, BUT all this really means is the kid is trapped (and needs to figure something out for those 3 months). Doesn't mean they don't play club soccer and there's a ton of kids who don't play HS soccer, especially when the level is low in their case.

Its funny how you throw around terms like misaligned implying that a player is not on a team with players their grade in school. But in the next sentence argue that seasonal year grouping has nothing to do with grade in school. Which one is it?

Your stupid regrade kid is welcome to play club soccer on a team with players their age. If you hold them back 2 years their junior year they wont have a team to play on. ECNL and GA i believe allow GY your kids senior year. So at least you can cheat then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

Let’s not be intellectually dishonest. A large percentage of the time, when kids are held back and dont follow school cut off dates, their parents are looking for some type of “advantage”, be it academic or athletic. Let’s not waste any time worrying about them not fitting and being “held back trapped”. They will make up for it by being the oldest kid in the class taking the ACT or being the oldest freshman in high school.

For those that are truly held back for legitimate reasons, well, those aren’t the kids usually going to UVA on a soccer scholarship so probably not an issue to begin with.

Is it an advantage these parents seek OR did their kid struggle in preschool? Why is it do some always think every decision is just seeking an angle? That's not how everyone is.

Let’s just say I have been in NOVA long enough to have data beyond the anecdotal as to why kids are held back and it very very rarely that they struggled in preschool. But yes, that does happen occasionally. But we cant make rules that are 100% so i will settle for rules that eliminate 99.9% of trapped kids.

I doubt the number is that high, but it so would have been alot better for misalignment to go with 9/1. All the AUG kids that started on time are in a tough spot now.

Tougher to have a choice to play up or down vs August kids in 30% of the states with an 8-1 start date that are really and truly trapped? Nope.

Let me rephrase for all the pedantic parents out there. An 8-1 soccer cut off eliminates 99.9% of trapped kids that are not held back for whatever reason. ALL other kids, misaligned or otherwise, that are not held back, have a CHOICE to play within the 12 month window OR play up with their current grade on whatever team their talent indicates they should be.

Those kids with August birthdays are all fine. Yes, if they CHOOSE to stay with their grade, they will be a couple of weeks younger than a 12 month window. If that prevents them from being a great player, then they probably weren’t a great player to begin with.

4-6% of kids are redshirted each year. Trapped kids won't be eliminated.

1. If you actually read what I posted you will note I said 99.9% of kids NOT HELD BACK
2. If you choose to not follow school enrollment guidelines for whatever reason, you forfeit your right to complain about being trapped in my opinion. You dont hear about parents that follow the rules complaining about your kid being older and more mature and having more time to learn math and reading thereby getting a higher ACT score than their kid do you?
3. Taking the held back kid to the extreme, should we make allowances for kids help back 2 months? 6 months? 18 months? It is just stupid.

All these hold backs will still get their glory in high school for 4 years being older than they should be for their grade. They will even be able to flex on everyone their senior years since they wont have anyone else to play except the younger kids.

The GY people want to do this with club soccer. They want to hold their stupid kid back in school so they have a physical advantage over everyone else in their grade. If they get what they want soccer will be like football, basketball, and lacrosse with 16 year old freshman / 20 year old seniors playing against kids often 2 years younger.

Oh and clubs will make less $$$ because nobody will play on a 2nd or 3rd team if everyone on the 1st team is 2 years older.

Maybe too many parents RUSH their kids to school too early?

Found the private school 16 year old freshman parent.

Im sorry you listened to the private school nonsense about regrading your kid. Have fun playing in HS because you wont play club soccer. Unless your kid plays in the appropate age grouo.

That's not me, BUT all this really means is the kid is trapped (and needs to figure something out for those 3 months). Doesn't mean they don't play club soccer and there's a ton of kids who don't play HS soccer, especially when the level is low in their case.

The trapped players you're referring to would have a 6/1-7/31 school start date. They would 8th grade but forced to play on a 9th grade team.

[Anonymous]

It appears that the majority of people on this board have zero sympathy for a trapped hold back. Sometimes the cheat code changes and you have to engage on an equal playing field……..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

If that is the best you have, then yes, trapped is gone.

When you are so ungrateful that you got to send your kid to school a year early that you feel that everything else should revolve around you, there is no making you happy. In these cases, finding a private school where you can make a large donation and alter the rules is your best bet.

People shouldn't forget that a school cut off is the minimum age, typically 5 years old. They actually aren't required to start until 6 or 7. That's a bigger window then anyone talks about in these discussions and where they lose the nuance of it all.

People shouldn't forget that P2P travel soccer isn't school soccer. No nuance.

That's true -- But having 0 nuance is a better argument for BY, because switching to Seasonal Year just causes confusion with the laudable effort to better (but not perfect align) with School Year. In the end, we won't have GY but I think you're going to see a ton of carveouts that seek to address kids being in different grades, especially when you get to 8th grade and HS.

Nope, 8/1 worked before without carveouts. BY is over.

This. 8/1 was the cutoff for decades before the change to BY in 2017. No carve outs were needed.

Except they exist now, even in BY (and probably did back then, too, because not every state has the same cut offs).

No carve out existed back then, hard 8/1-7/31. It was all OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the majority of people on this board have zero sympathy for a trapped hold back. Sometimes the cheat code changes and you have to engage on an equal playing field……..

You're welcome to play your stupid hold back on a team with players their age. Where's the disconnect?

It's Seasonal Year remember, not School Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

Let’s not be intellectually dishonest. A large percentage of the time, when kids are held back and dont follow school cut off dates, their parents are looking for some type of “advantage”, be it academic or athletic. Let’s not waste any time worrying about them not fitting and being “held back trapped”. They will make up for it by being the oldest kid in the class taking the ACT or being the oldest freshman in high school.

For those that are truly held back for legitimate reasons, well, those aren’t the kids usually going to UVA on a soccer scholarship so probably not an issue to begin with.

Is it an advantage these parents seek OR did their kid struggle in preschool? Why is it do some always think every decision is just seeking an angle? That's not how everyone is.

Let’s just say I have been in NOVA long enough to have data beyond the anecdotal as to why kids are held back and it very very rarely that they struggled in preschool. But yes, that does happen occasionally. But we cant make rules that are 100% so i will settle for rules that eliminate 99.9% of trapped kids.

I doubt the number is that high, but it so would have been alot better for misalignment to go with 9/1. All the AUG kids that started on time are in a tough spot now.

Tougher to have a choice to play up or down vs August kids in 30% of the states with an 8-1 start date that are really and truly trapped? Nope.

Let me rephrase for all the pedantic parents out there. An 8-1 soccer cut off eliminates 99.9% of trapped kids that are not held back for whatever reason. ALL other kids, misaligned or otherwise, that are not held back, have a CHOICE to play within the 12 month window OR play up with their current grade on whatever team their talent indicates they should be.

Those kids with August birthdays are all fine. Yes, if they CHOOSE to stay with their grade, they will be a couple of weeks younger than a 12 month window. If that prevents them from being a great player, then they probably weren’t a great player to begin with.

4-6% of kids are redshirted each year. Trapped kids won't be eliminated.

1. If you actually read what I posted you will note I said 99.9% of kids NOT HELD BACK
2. If you choose to not follow school enrollment guidelines for whatever reason, you forfeit your right to complain about being trapped in my opinion. You dont hear about parents that follow the rules complaining about your kid being older and more mature and having more time to learn math and reading thereby getting a higher ACT score than their kid do you?
3. Taking the held back kid to the extreme, should we make allowances for kids help back 2 months? 6 months? 18 months? It is just stupid.

All these hold backs will still get their glory in high school for 4 years being older than they should be for their grade. They will even be able to flex on everyone their senior years since they wont have anyone else to play except the younger kids.

The GY people want to do this with club soccer. They want to hold their stupid kid back in school so they have a physical advantage over everyone else in their grade. If they get what they want soccer will be like football, basketball, and lacrosse with 16 year old freshman / 20 year old seniors playing against kids often 2 years younger.

Oh and clubs will make less $$$ because nobody will play on a 2nd or 3rd team if everyone on the 1st team is 2 years older.

Maybe too many parents RUSH their kids to school too early?

Found the private school 16 year old freshman parent.

Im sorry you listened to the private school nonsense about regrading your kid. Have fun playing in HS because you wont play club soccer. Unless your kid plays in the appropate age grouo.

That's not me, BUT all this really means is the kid is trapped (and needs to figure something out for those 3 months). Doesn't mean they don't play club soccer and there's a ton of kids who don't play HS soccer, especially when the level is low in their case.

Its funny how you throw around terms like misaligned implying that a player is not on a team with players their grade in school. But in the next sentence argue that seasonal year grouping has nothing to do with grade in school. Which one is it?

Your stupid regrade kid is welcome to play club soccer on a team with players their age. If you hold them back 2 years their junior year they wont have a team to play on. ECNL and GA i believe allow GY your kids senior year. So at least you can cheat then.

I think it's clear that SY is seasonal, not school year. I'm just pushing back against people who say the change eliminated trapped players. That's just not true. This change never was going to be perfect and would create its own problems for many people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the majority of people on this board have zero sympathy for a trapped hold back. Sometimes the cheat code changes and you have to engage on an equal playing field……..

You're welcome to play your stupid hold back on a team with players their age. Where's the disconnect?

It's Seasonal Year remember, not School Year

Correct. And the leagues still will likely create rules for kids either trapped or misaligned by grades and everyone here who thinks it's a hard 12-months will be proven wrong. It's not even a hard 12-months now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY guy is excited to be able to play that last year as a cheat...then next year BY guy can't cheat anymore. No more playing against players in a younger grade for the Jan to July kids. such cheaters they have been the last few years.

This thinking is so off. I've personally seen many examples where a Aug-Dec kid is in the HIGHER grade OR where a Jan-July is in the LOWER grade. These decisions, BTW, had to do with maturity and academics, not sports. This shift doesn't help any of them and underscores how grade is less of a factor than people believe and kids playing against other grades will continue.

Changing from BY to SY trades 3 months of players playing up a grade for 1 month of players playing down a grade.

Which option do you think will result in better players?

Which option do you think will result in more money for clubs?

It's more than the baked-in misalignments, tho. All the cases on one team I am aware of (3) are parents who either redshirted OR the reverse (which still happens even though no longer the IT thing to do like it was back in the 80s and 90s).

I think globally the change is good for youth soccer BUT still causes problems for individuals AND might be a unfortunate curveball for some during this transition while perhaps helping others.

The same number of players are born first or born last no matter when the cutoff is defined if its always a 365 day window.

The benefit of 8/1-7/31 is no trapped players in 8th grade.

The problem with 8/1-7/31 is some August birthday players (depending on school district) can play down on a team with mostly players a grade below them in school.

Just to be fair...

The benefit of 1/1-12/31 is that the dates are complely seperate from school which means grade in School doesn't come into play. When you mix grade in school with teams you open the door to hold backs and regrades trying to play down for wins. "It's not fair my 16 year old freshman cant play on a team with kids in their grade." or "My kid is homeschooled so we'll just pick the grade team we think they should play on."

Sorry, but you reduce BUT not eliminate 8th-grade trapped kids. This is because of grade misalignment, because states are different OR if parents don't have the kid in the grade most do.

Name a scenario where kids are trapped now? There are none. If you are an august birthday in a 9-1 state you can play up. Therefore not trapped. So sick of people saying there are still trapped players, there aren’t.

July kids. Just saw several parents raise the issue in response to the GA annoucement. They'll be trapped.

Your heart will always bleed if you are stumping for the 7 kids in North Dakota born on 7/31. Trapped as an issue is gone.

It's not gone. People don't always follow school cut offs. They follow what's best for their kid and it's not about youth sports.

If that is the best you have, then yes, trapped is gone.

When you are so ungrateful that you got to send your kid to school a year early that you feel that everything else should revolve around you, there is no making you happy. In these cases, finding a private school where you can make a large donation and alter the rules is your best bet.

People shouldn't forget that a school cut off is the minimum age, typically 5 years old. They actually aren't required to start until 6 or 7. That's a bigger window then anyone talks about in these discussions and where they lose the nuance of it all.

People shouldn't forget that P2P travel soccer isn't school soccer. No nuance.

That's true -- But having 0 nuance is a better argument for BY, because switching to Seasonal Year just causes confusion with the laudable effort to better (but not perfect align) with School Year. In the end, we won't have GY but I think you're going to see a ton of carveouts that seek to address kids being in different grades, especially when you get to 8th grade and HS.

Nope, 8/1 worked before without carveouts. BY is over.

This. 8/1 was the cutoff for decades before the change to BY in 2017. No carve outs were needed.

Except they exist now, even in BY (and probably did back then, too, because not every state has the same cut offs).

No carve out existed back then, hard 8/1-7/31. It was all OK.

Cite your evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the majority of people on this board have zero sympathy for a trapped hold back. Sometimes the cheat code changes and you have to engage on an equal playing field……..

You're welcome to play your stupid hold back on a team with players their age. Where's the disconnect?

It's Seasonal Year remember, not School Year

Correct. And the leagues still will likely create rules for kids either trapped or misaligned by grades and everyone here who thinks it's a hard 12-months will be proven wrong. It's not even a hard 12-months now.

There was a person posting on here about a grouping they were calling SY+60 with a 9/1 cutoff.

It addresses exactly what you're concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the majority of people on this board have zero sympathy for a trapped hold back. Sometimes the cheat code changes and you have to engage on an equal playing field……..

You're welcome to play your stupid hold back on a team with players their age. Where's the disconnect?

It's Seasonal Year remember, not School Year

Correct. And the leagues still will likely create rules for kids either trapped or misaligned by grades and everyone here who thinks it's a hard 12-months will be proven wrong. It's not even a hard 12-months now.

There was a person posting on here about a grouping they were calling SY+60 with a 9/1 cutoff.

It addresses exactly what you're concerned about.

Except the majority of posters here hate it. They think it's GY-lite OR a GY Trojan Horse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the majority of people on this board have zero sympathy for a trapped hold back. Sometimes the cheat code changes and you have to engage on an equal playing field……..

You're welcome to play your stupid hold back on a team with players their age. Where's the disconnect?

It's Seasonal Year remember, not School Year

Correct. And the leagues still will likely create rules for kids either trapped or misaligned by grades and everyone here who thinks it's a hard 12-months will be proven wrong. It's not even a hard 12-months now.

There was a person posting on here about a grouping they were calling SY+60 with a 9/1 cutoff.

It addresses exactly what you're concerned about.

Except the majority of posters here hate it. They think it's GY-lite OR a GY Trojan Horse.

if they hate it. Thats because they dont understand how a calendar works. It specifically protects against GY parents playing down for wins.

Really all they're doing is making the grade cutoff a 60 day window instead of a single day. This accomodates all the different school start dates across America.