Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

You are awesome, and I’d rather have a DH like you than my DH who makes 7 figures, and didn’t lift a finger at home whether I worked or stayed at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

DP.. that's awesome, seriously. There should be more men like you, and my DH who also does a lot. But ^PP did say "many", not "all". Your kind (and my DH) are not the norm.

We have two kids -- DH basically takes on most of DC#1's activities and events, with me as the second. I do most of DC#2, with DH as the second. We make about the same. We both help cook and clean; if I cook, DH cleans, and vice versa. I will say that I do most of the laundry duty, as in, when does the laundry need doing, but DH does the grocery run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

Are you single?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

You are awesome, and I’d rather have a DH like you than my DH who makes 7 figures, and didn’t lift a finger at home whether I worked or stayed at home.

+1. You’re a great dad.

[Anonymous]

I hope he’s writing because he IS married and his wife also works full time and isnt currently traveling.

[Anonymous]

This thread was seriously hijacked. OP asked why there were fewer economically attractive men, but everyone is talking about why women want men to have high paying jobs, men don't help out, men prefer younger women, etc.

To answer OP's question, from what I have read "it's complicated." Labor force participation rates have been declining for men in the US since the 1960s. Interestingly, this is somewhat unique to the US. Labor force participation rates have not declined as precipitously in other advanced industrialized countries.

A number of theories have been floated by social scientists, I'll list a few I recall of the top of my head:

Decline of high-paying factory jobs due to deindustrialization and offshoring of manufacturing jobs.
Automation of high-paying blue collar jobs
Availability of disability payments
The availability of sex without having to get married--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex
The availability of high quality porn as a substitute for sex--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex
High quality video games as a substitute for romantic interactions.

Maybe all of these contribute. The end result is fewer men with higher paying jobs relative to decades earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The next sexual revolution will be in our households. Women need to demand equal partners. I’m a millennial and I do feel like my generation was better at picking equal partners. I passed on so many scrubs. I married an equal partner who does chores, cooks and cares for our kids equally.

No scrubs

It's much more likely that the next sexual revolution will be sex tech/dolls/robots that allow men to fulfill AR/VR enhanced sexual needs solo at home. This will further diminish the utility of women and lead to major disruptions in the dating and marriage markets over the next few decades. Ultimately it will be a disaster because what people need most out of long-term relationships is social connection and companionship, but I suspect humanity will have to re-learn that lesson the hard way.

The utility of men as companions would be diminished too, because women can do the same thing.

Most (not all) women value companionship and commitment more heavily whereas men, especially young men, value physical sex more heavily. The traditional value exchange between most (not all) men and women has been sex for commitment. So in the near term this type of sex tech is likely to have a disproportionate impact. That said in the existential sense I think it will diminish us all as humans because it will lead to further social isolation and disconnection. Eventually we will learn the lessons and adapt, as we always do, and that will lead to much healthier relationships for both men and women.

I think the primary reasons women value male commitment are to raise their kids within a stable relationship (if they want kids), and financial support. As women become more financially independent, neither of these things are a concern. If traditional societal norms don’t exist, men don’t need wives and can have sex robots, and women can use sperm donor to have kids and raise them with family/friend circle or hired help. This will disconnect us all as humans and isn’t ideal, but it requires societal massive cooperation to overcome. The answer is NOT a return to shitty 50’s values when only men worked and held all financial power while wifey stayed at home doing the hard and thankless job of managing all childcare and household chores.

Outside a small slice of the elite, most single mothers survive on cross-subsidies from married taxpayers and taxpayers without children. The idea that there are huge numbers of women raising these kids successfully, not in poverty, and "on their own" (inc. their own dime) is really a myth.

[Anonymous]

What are cross subsidies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread was seriously hijacked. OP asked why there were fewer economically attractive men, but everyone is talking about why women want men to have high paying jobs, men don't help out, men prefer younger women, etc.

To answer OP's question, from what I have read "it's complicated." Labor force participation rates have been declining for men in the US since the 1960s. Interestingly, this is somewhat unique to the US. Labor force participation rates have not declined as precipitously in other advanced industrialized countries.

A number of theories have been floated by social scientists, I'll list a few I recall of the top of my head:

Decline of high-paying factory jobs due to deindustrialization and offshoring of manufacturing jobs.
Automation of high-paying blue collar jobs
Availability of disability payments
The availability of sex without having to get married--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex
The availability of high quality porn as a substitute for sex--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex
High quality video games as a substitute for romantic interactions.

Maybe all of these contribute. The end result is fewer men with higher paying jobs relative to decades earlier.

Many men work in the underground economy, and thus do not show up in BLS labor participation reports or Census monthly employment surveys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My guess is there has always been a shortage, but now women don’t need to rely on a man to survive. Easier to work than be married to a loser.

Yes women don't need a man to survive or even raise a child.

[Anonymous]

The availability of sex without having to get married--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex

Premarital sex means I didn’t get a good job ... no, you’re full of crap here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The availability of sex without having to get married--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex

Premarital sex means I didn’t get a good job ... no, you’re full of crap here.

PP who posted that the availability of premarital sex gives men less incentive to get a good job. This is not my theory, I was simply reporting what different social scientists have put forth as explanations. This one comes from "Cheap Sex" by Mark Regnerus. My personal view with regard to this particular theory is that there is a 3rd factor causing both the decline in male employment and the rise of premarital sex. As society becomes more permissive, premarital sex becomes more the norm and some men choose to become slackers. The social pressure that would have prevented both in the past is no longer as strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The availability of sex without having to get married--less incentive to get a good job, attract a wife so as to be able to have sex

Premarital sex means I didn’t get a good job ... no, you’re full of crap here.

PP who posted that the availability of premarital sex gives men less incentive to get a good job. This is not my theory, I was simply reporting what different social scientists have put forth as explanations. This one comes from "Cheap Sex" by Mark Regnerus. My personal view with regard to this particular theory is that there is a 3rd factor causing both the decline in male employment and the rise of premarital sex. As society becomes more permissive, premarital sex becomes more the norm and some men choose to become slackers. The social pressure that would have prevented both in the past is no longer as strong.

High earning man here and I totally agree with this as a potential theory. I don't think women can fathom how motivated men, especially young men are by sex. If women prized teachers and garbage men as much as doctor's and hedge fund managers, men would flock to the former instead of the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is there has always been a shortage, but now women don’t need to rely on a man to survive. Easier to work than be married to a loser.

Yes women don't need a man to survive or even raise a child.

But studies have shown the benefits to the child from a loving and involved relationship with his/her father.