Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of people who game the system to their advantage and there are plenty who really do have kids with needs that one may not see from the outside and need the extra time and support. Its really a hard call as its very easy now to get an ASD or ADHD diagnosis and with testing if you are willing to fight/spend the money get accommodations. Its the kids like mine who we don't spend the money fighting as we are spent out with service and supports who are getting shafted but that's life. I think they should just get rid of the ACT and SAT as its a big money maker for the company and just use test scores that kids already have through their years of schooling. It seems like a worthless test to me. Those that way to pay their way in, always have and will find other ways to do so.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's hard to know how many are gaming the system because there is no uniform requirement for testing--at least not that I am aware. My DS did what is considered "the gold standard" a neuropych. test, full language test, and it included IQ and achievement testing. He was re-evaluated 2.5 years later, and will be re-evaluated again prior to high school.
We use accommodations that we feel are the least extreme- in his case, he tests in a less distracting environment. We don't use additional time because, while it would raise his writing scores (he has ADHD and a speech and language impairment), he's managed well without it.
Here is what happens OP (someone mentioned this earlier)-- exceptionally bright kids (mine has an IQ in the mid 140s) mask learning disabilities until high school- at that time, the volume and complexity of work exceeds their ability to compensate. What this means, is that many of these kids (mine included) can work at a higher level than 99% of the population if they are given more time. That is not the same as gaming the system. Everyone does better with more time but the kids with learning issues may jump massive percentage points with even a little more time.
Case in point, my DS's teacher accidentally gave him extra time on the language portion of his ERB a few years ago. His score went from the 7th stanine in independent schools to the 9th stanine, 99th percentile with just 15 or so extra minutes. While there are typical, smart kids who might raise their scores slightly or even by a lot, I will bet that you likely wouldn't see such a dramatic change in comprehension. That's how "real" learning issues work--my DS's scores in language abilities look above average on a standardized test without extended time- but they are not. He was reading Orwell in the 5th grade, winning word masters contests for his entire school, writing poetry, etc.

My kid’s score would jump to 800 on the math portion if he had extra time also. He just didn’t have time to go through all the questions and got a 760. He knew the material.

Congratulations. Please feel comforted that my DC was rejected from almost every school (and only one reach) with a 35 ACT and a lifetime of pretty cool achievements. I hope my child's failure to secure admissions makes you feel vindicated and superior.

Your kid applied to almost every school? There are thousands of colleges in this country.

Thank you for pointing out my error. It should read "DC was rejected from almost every school they applied to." You sound pissed off people are not happy with how learning institutions are breaking the law. Maybe you should spend your energy working on compliance or changing the law. Best wishes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

And how could they test processing speed w accommodations of extra time and even usage of calculators and the abuse of the system?

First, both the SAT and ACT allow every student to use calculators.

These admissions tests now mostly cover knowledge from high school (why are now being used for statewide assessments in non-PARCC or Smarter Blanced States).

Processing speed is not discernible on these exams. And, as has been stated before, unless low processing speed is combined with something -- and has an impact academically -- you will not get accommodations.

My kid is in the 4th percentile for processing speed and gets straight As in his high school classes. He also is in the 99th percentile for reading and has a GAI of 130. He has some brain damage from birth. But despite his low processing speed he does not need extra time on the SAT or ACT, and if we asked he would certainly be turned down. Kids with neurological disorders are complex and don't all present the same way. And some of them figure out strategies over many years to overcome their challenges.

Calculators usage - not allowed on all portions unless one has accommodations. What I find curious is the resistance from parents who have accommodations for their kids to support extended time for everyone- if it is truly testing for knowledge, why not?

I have never met a parent with accommodation that does not think everybody should have the accommodations.

It's like giving glasses to somebody with 20/20 vision... it won't help. Nobody cares. We only care when a child with a disability is denied an accommodation.

This is ridiculous. Stop spreading this. Many kids would benefit.

No they won't. Give you kids the tests with accommodations then without and see for yourself.

Thought exercise for you then:

Your kid scores in 20th percentile for PS. 20th percentile is the trigger for accommodations.

Another kid scores 21st percentile. No accommodations.

Do you really think that other kid wouldn’t benefit from more time. I’m not saying this is exactly how it works. But there are kids who don’t get extra time because they just barely don’t score low enough.

This happens whenever you have to draw a line. Someone will just make it and someone will just miss it.

[Anonymous]

The extra time issue is rampant in the private high schools regardless of whether it extends to SAT/ACT testing. DD has ADD and does work a bit more slowly since she is so easily distracted. DH and I have never gotten her tested or asked for accommodations because we feel that she needs to figure out how to manage in the world at large. But now in high school she sees 25-50% of her class getting extended time on tests, while she loses tons of points by not having time to finish or check her work. The really frustrating thing is when they have a particularly short test, and many of the kids who have qualified for extra time finish it way before she does!! It is hard to argue that they are not gaming the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The extra time issue is rampant in the private high schools regardless of whether it extends to SAT/ACT testing. DD has ADD and does work a bit more slowly since she is so easily distracted. DH and I have never gotten her tested or asked for accommodations because we feel that she needs to figure out how to manage in the world at large. But now in high school she sees 25-50% of her class getting extended time on tests, while she loses tons of points by not having time to finish or check her work. The really frustrating thing is when they have a particularly short test, and many of the kids who have qualified for extra time finish it way before she does!! It is hard to argue that they are not gaming the system.

Wait till u see these same kids in college and uses same accomodation to move the average up and your kids GPA gets hit. All this is getting ridiculous - give it to EVERYONE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The extra time issue is rampant in the private high schools regardless of whether it extends to SAT/ACT testing. DD has ADD and does work a bit more slowly since she is so easily distracted. DH and I have never gotten her tested or asked for accommodations because we feel that she needs to figure out how to manage in the world at large. But now in high school she sees 25-50% of her class getting extended time on tests, while she loses tons of points by not having time to finish or check her work. The really frustrating thing is when they have a particularly short test, and many of the kids who have qualified for extra time finish it way before she does!! It is hard to argue that they are not gaming the system.

I’m confused. How do you know she has ADD? You said you never got her tested.You THINK she might have ADHD? (the correct diagnosis is ADHD not ADD)

[Anonymous]

PP here. Tested and has ADHD but not the full neuropsych battery of tests on processing speed, etc.

[Anonymous]

The extra time issue is rampant in the private high schools regardless of whether it extends to SAT/ACT testing. DD has ADD and does work a bit more slowly since she is so easily distracted. DH and I have never gotten her tested or asked for accommodations because we feel that she needs to figure out how to manage in the world at large. But now in high school she sees 25-50% of her class getting extended time on tests, while she loses tons of points by not having time to finish or check her work. The really frustrating thing is when they have a particularly short test, and many of the kids who have qualified for extra time finish it way before she does!! It is hard to argue that they are not gaming the system.

One of the biggest mistakes that you can make is not getting your kid tested. The ADD brain is different and needs different approaches. One of the things that a neuropysch test will do is show you the difference in specific sub area performances. A kid can have a very high IQ and low processing speed. With the legally required accommodations, this kid can be very successful in college and the work place. Many successful people have ADHD. There is an energy, ability to see things that others miss, and risk taking propensity that can lead to great success. Untreated in the worst outcomes, it can lead to depression, substance abuse and suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you claim a processing speed disability does State Dept or CIA give additional time for their testsing (FSOT or brainbench)?

What about MCAT and LSAT, are kids getting extra time on those too? Why about boards and BAR exam?

LSAT now provides the same accommodations that you received on ACT or SAT. Don't know about MCAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From this wsj story from May:
More than a decade ago, the College Board, which administers the SAT and PSAT among other tests, stopped alerting colleges when students received extra time, and the numbers who requested it began to increase. From 2010-11 to last year, the number of accommodations requests jumped 171%, while the number of people taking the exams increased 22%. Last year, 94% of those requests were approved.

Sounds to me that the ultra rich weren't the only ones who knew this trick.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/colleges-bend-the-rules-for-more-students-give-them-extra-help-1527154200

Correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The extra time issue is rampant in the private high schools regardless of whether it extends to SAT/ACT testing. DD has ADD and does work a bit more slowly since she is so easily distracted. DH and I have never gotten her tested or asked for accommodations because we feel that she needs to figure out how to manage in the world at large. But now in high school she sees 25-50% of her class getting extended time on tests, while she loses tons of points by not having time to finish or check her work. The really frustrating thing is when they have a particularly short test, and many of the kids who have qualified for extra time finish it way before she does!! It is hard to argue that they are not gaming the system.

One of the biggest mistakes that you can make is not getting your kid tested. The ADD brain is different and needs different approaches. One of the things that a neuropysch test will do is show you the difference in specific sub area performances. A kid can have a very high IQ and low processing speed. With the legally required accommodations, this kid can be very successful in college and the work place. Many successful people have ADHD. There is an energy, ability to see things that others miss, and risk taking propensity that can lead to great success. Untreated in the worst outcomes, it can lead to depression, substance abuse and suicide.

Surely you know the meds can lead to suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The extra time issue is rampant in the private high schools regardless of whether it extends to SAT/ACT testing. DD has ADD and does work a bit more slowly since she is so easily distracted. DH and I have never gotten her tested or asked for accommodations because we feel that she needs to figure out how to manage in the world at large. But now in high school she sees 25-50% of her class getting extended time on tests, while she loses tons of points by not having time to finish or check her work. The really frustrating thing is when they have a particularly short test, and many of the kids who have qualified for extra time finish it way before she does!! It is hard to argue that they are not gaming the system.

One of the biggest mistakes that you can make is not getting your kid tested. The ADD brain is different and needs different approaches. One of the things that a neuropysch test will do is show you the difference in specific sub area performances. A kid can have a very high IQ and low processing speed. With the legally required accommodations, this kid can be very successful in college and the work place. Many successful people have ADHD. There is an energy, ability to see things that others miss, and risk taking propensity that can lead to great success. Untreated in the worst outcomes, it can lead to depression, substance abuse and suicide.

Surely you know the meds can lead to suicide.

Which meds are you referring to and what is your source for this? We thought long and hard about ADHD meds and had several discussions with the doctor. I don’t think there is a scientific basis for your statement but would be interested in seeing the literature if I am incorrect. Later, our child ended up on SSRIs and those do have a black box warning and we had to work through some things, but I do not believe ADHD meds have been linked to suicide.

[Anonymous]

I think the SAT/ACT should just change their process. One fee pays for two tests. First test is untimed, and everyone can take as long as they want. Second test is timed and no accommodations. Scores and test type submitted for both tests to schools.

This would be cheaper, clearer, and more fair in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of people who game the system to their advantage and there are plenty who really do have kids with needs that one may not see from the outside and need the extra time and support. Its really a hard call as its very easy now to get an ASD or ADHD diagnosis and with testing if you are willing to fight/spend the money get accommodations. Its the kids like mine who we don't spend the money fighting as we are spent out with service and supports who are getting shafted but that's life. I think they should just get rid of the ACT and SAT as its a big money maker for the company and just use test scores that kids already have through their years of schooling. It seems like a worthless test to me. Those that way to pay their way in, always have and will find other ways to do so.

It is completely worth it. Look at all the kids in MCPS walking around with the most ungodly weighted GPA’s. You think that compares them to others. There are kids with 4.5 GPA and 24 ACT. That is not a top kid. That is inflated kid. You multiple factors to differentiate. If anything, give final exams for each course and post them on the transcript. Because once again kids were getting A’s in math and then failing the final. Would you want that kid in your college? Final exams can be up to half your college course grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Tested and has ADHD but not the full neuropsych battery of tests on processing speed, etc.

So a diagnosis from self and parent questionnaires?