Specifically on-topic contributors to the Drew boundary issue only please -

[Anonymous]

Just eyeballing it, I'd favor 10:28's proposal for Drew. The question is whether it would ever be considered because it intrudes on Randolph's sacrosanct walk zone.

I have also heard that Randolph actually cannot physically accept buses. Is that accurate? Obviously would limit options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the insight into Alcova. I actually learned about the split in the neighborhood recently in connection with providing feedback on the proposal. It really does help to know the areas we're talking about.

In line with that, why not send all of Alcova to Fleet? I have heard the response that the remaining Alcova units (37040 and 37050) are not diverse. They are in fact about 1/3 now (like the south-of-pike Henry units) and the current Staff projections for 37050 pretty clearly do not include Gilliam Place -- unless anyone thinks 2 years after Gilliam Place opens it will have only gained 6 kids for a *total* of 53 kids in that PU. So, those units will likely be higher in terms of fr/l within a couple of years. Moving Alcova provides or at least maintains diversity to Fleet, and keeps another CAF out of Barcroft. I understand that right now those units provide Barcroft with some higher-income students, but if we look just a few years down the line, I strongly suspect the situation will be reversed.

What am I missing?

Um, no. Alcova Heights is a very nice neighborhood with more million dollar homes than Arlington Heights because the lots in Alcova are huge and lots of people have torn down or built on. As far as I can tell, Gilliam Place will be the first CAF. I'm happy for Fleet to take Gilliam Place, but I think zoning all of Alcova Heights to Fleet will only make Barcroft sink deeper down into 80% or more FARMS. You see what I mean? You are improving FARMS at Drew by shifting the problem to Barcroft.

Yes, I see the trade-off clearly. Part of why I was asking. I will say I have done the numbers and can get Barcroft to high 60s, not 80. You can pull some of the Abingdon units to Barcroft to help make up for the loss of Alcova if you do it that way. It is definitely not perfect.

PP again. Just did the numbers. Using the Staff's proposal (which sends 37080 and 37090 to Drew, thus removing one CAF from Barcroft), if you send the rest of Alcova to Fleet, Barcroft's fr/l rate is 62%, i.e., what it is now. If you retain 37080 and 37090 at Barcroft and send the rest of Alcova to Fleet, then Barcroft goes to 66% fr/l. Again, not perfect but also not 80+%.

[Anonymous]

Meh. Douglas Park homeowners have historically never supported the school. Divide it up so the apts can walk to their school ( Randolph) and bus the middle class to Drew and guarantee a Farm’s rate at 50 or below. You’d get support. Put the Pu’s south of the Pike ( which has part of DP anyway) into Drew. You’d stop hearing all this “Keep Henry together” nonsense if you could make Drew under 50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

Not a building, the entire PU, which is half the neighborhood because of how big they drew it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

What "community"? What "neighborhood"? Folks, Gilliam Place is a construction site right now, on the periphery of alcova. It's bounded by a parking lot, the broiler, a Wendy's, and an office building. No one lives there yet and APS estimates don't reflect the dozens of elementary school aged kids who will. Drawing a smaller planning unit around the building is a common sense move to better distribute students in a demographically equitable way. It's not breaking up a community. The only reason the current PU is so geographically large is that Alcova SFH lots are very large by Arlington standards so planners drew a big unit to account for low population density. There are plenty of planning units that are quite small but dense.

Not a building, the entire PU, which is half the neighborhood because of how big they drew it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

Not a building, the entire PU, which is half the neighborhood because of how big they drew it.

What "community"? What "neighborhood"? Folks, Gilliam Place is a construction site right now, on the periphery of alcova. It's bounded by a parking lot, the broiler, a Wendy's, and an office building. No one lives there yet and APS estimates don't reflect the dozens of elementary school aged kids who will. Drawing a smaller planning unit around the building is a common sense move to better distribute students in a demographically equitable way. It's not breaking up a community. The only reason the current PU is so geographically large is that Alcova SFH lots are very large by Arlington standards so planners drew a big unit to account for low population density. There are plenty of planning units that are quite small but dense

[Anonymous]

With prior boundary processes, I've wondered whether splitting a planning unit is a feasible option worth mentioning or pursuing. Does anyone know what it would take to create a new PU and whether/why APS would be opposed to doing so? The points about Alcova make a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I didn't even realize it really isn't part of the neighborhood at all. You can take this block and the one next to it and make it its own without disrupting the neighborhood "moral cohesion" because there are no current residents, but there will be.

[Anonymous]

SB work session on this tonight. Docs should post soon!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

LOL you're claiming solidarity with a development your neighborhood opposed and doesn't even have a roof yet? Cmon dude, don't be so transparent. Not everyone can go to Fleet.

Our neighborhood did not oppose the development - many lamented the loss of a church and the loss of some peaceful green space facing the Pike; but Alcova did not "oppose" Gilliam per se. I don't care about going to Fleet. I said whichever school gets Alcova should get all of Alcova. I care about carving out one building in a small neighborhood - an affordable housing building - and telling it to go to a different neighborhood school than the rest of us have been attending for a very long time. What could possibly say "we don't want you around" more than that? So yeah, solidarity with our future neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I didn't even realize it really isn't part of the neighborhood at all. You can take this block and the one next to it and make it its own without disrupting the neighborhood "moral cohesion" because there are no current residents, but there will be.

Gilliam Place will be no different neighbor-wise than Dundree Knolls or Alcova Row. They are all multi-family housing developments fronting the Pike. And the residents and homeowners in them are part of our neighborhood. Should we carve off those to Randolph while we carve out Gilliam to Fleet? Just send all of our neighborhood's multi-family housing to various elementary schools while the SFHs go to a different one?

[Anonymous]

That's true. Alcova (and Barcroft) never oppose more affordable housing. They're the civic associations that ask for more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I didn't even realize it really isn't part of the neighborhood at all. You can take this block and the one next to it and make it its own without disrupting the neighborhood "moral cohesion" because there are no current residents, but there will be.

Gilliam Place will be no different neighbor-wise than Dundree Knolls or Alcova Row. They are all multi-family housing developments fronting the Pike. And the residents and homeowners in them are part of our neighborhood. Should we carve off those to Randolph while we carve out Gilliam to Fleet? Just send all of our neighborhood's multi-family housing to various elementary schools while the SFHs go to a different one?

That sounds like a reasonable idea, as it is the preference for those communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I didn't even realize it really isn't part of the neighborhood at all. You can take this block and the one next to it and make it its own without disrupting the neighborhood "moral cohesion" because there are no current residents, but there will be.

Gilliam Place will be no different neighbor-wise than Dundree Knolls or Alcova Row. They are all multi-family housing developments fronting the Pike. And the residents and homeowners in them are part of our neighborhood. Should we carve off those to Randolph while we carve out Gilliam to Fleet? Just send all of our neighborhood's multi-family housing to various elementary schools while the SFHs go to a different one?

That sounds like a reasonable idea, as it is the preference for those communities.

Huh? Alcova Row and Dundree Knolls have said they would prefer going to a different school than the rest of their neighborhood? And so has Gilliam Place, which is still under construction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's true. Alcova (and Barcroft) never oppose more affordable housing. They're the civic associations that ask for more.

Actually, again someone is mistaken. Barcroft neighborhood asks for more - though that fight divided the neighborhood during the AHMP and discussions that ensued after Barcroft was told it was getting an addition.

Alcova has never been a vocal advocate and has not asked for more.