Specifically on-topic contributors to the Drew boundary issue only please -

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

Finally! But where has your cry for this information and conversation been these past several years? Noone has heard it.

Alcova Heights may not significantly increase your FRL; but with Gilliam Place, it will help retain it. The # of kids from Gilliam will likely match the # of non FRL from the rest of the neighborhood or at a minimum be a very significant portion. Gilliam is committed for what - 30? 60? years; so you know it's not going to be gentrified. Meanwhile, where's your push for some APAH projects in your neighborhoods along the Pike east of Glebe? If you can't get any, then you should change Henry's boundaries and collaborate with Nauck/Drew for some new ones that serve you both well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

[Anonymous]

Great point raised earlier up here. Where is CASE on the elementary school issue? School Equality and Diversity are their banner issues. Why aren't they lending their voices on elementary boundaries and Drew. Drew parents should attend the next CASE meeting and get them involved!!
Here's their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/4thcomprehensivehighschool/

[Anonymous]

Isn’t CASE about equal facilities? What does that have to do with elementary boundary? Well maybe the $200,000 ASFS lab.

[Anonymous]

good bye asfs troll - we are discussing real problems here in SA - go stir the pot elsewhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

I live in Arl. Heights and appreciate what the PP was saying about maintaining diversity (although not the vitriol). I am looking at the map--what do you think about:
Leaving 46132 (Penrose) at Long Branch instead of rezoning to Fleet (this would free up some more space at Fleet)
Move 46120 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Hoffman-Boston
Move 46132 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Drew (this PU is mainly middle-class homes, correct?)
Move 38110 (Douglas Park) from Randolph to Drew
Split 37050 (Alcova) and zone the east side (Gilliam Place) to Fleet
Moving 36130 (Shirlington) from Abington to Drew
Keeping 36030 and other Columbia Forest PUs at Abington

No one gets 100% of what they want, but it does seem that would help Drew, no? One of the downsides, though, is that Alcova Heights gets split in half, which is not good for any neighborhood. And, PP is correct that it is a very small neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the insight into Alcova. I actually learned about the split in the neighborhood recently in connection with providing feedback on the proposal. It really does help to know the areas we're talking about.

In line with that, why not send all of Alcova to Fleet? I have heard the response that the remaining Alcova units (37040 and 37050) are not diverse. They are in fact about 1/3 now (like the south-of-pike Henry units) and the current Staff projections for 37050 pretty clearly do not include Gilliam Place -- unless anyone thinks 2 years after Gilliam Place opens it will have only gained 6 kids for a *total* of 53 kids in that PU. So, those units will likely be higher in terms of fr/l within a couple of years. Moving Alcova provides or at least maintains diversity to Fleet, and keeps another CAF out of Barcroft. I understand that right now those units provide Barcroft with some higher-income students, but if we look just a few years down the line, I strongly suspect the situation will be reversed.

What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

I live in Arl. Heights and appreciate what the PP was saying about maintaining diversity (although not the vitriol). I am looking at the map--what do you think about:
Leaving 46132 (Penrose) at Long Branch instead of rezoning to Fleet (this would free up some more space at Fleet)
Move 46120 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Hoffman-Boston
Move 46132 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Drew (this PU is mainly middle-class homes, correct?)
Move 38110 (Douglas Park) from Randolph to Drew
Split 37050 (Alcova) and zone the east side (Gilliam Place) to Fleet
Moving 36130 (Shirlington) from Abington to Drew
Keeping 36030 and other Columbia Forest PUs at Abington

No one gets 100% of what they want, but it does seem that would help Drew, no? One of the downsides, though, is that Alcova Heights gets split in half, which is not good for any neighborhood. And, PP is correct that it is a very small neighborhood.

I don't think this is a bad start, but I think it bumps up against some problems in APS's all-walking world. For instance, I don't think it makes sense to take one unit that currently walks to Randolph and send it to Drew on a bus. At a minimum, better to look at the current Hoffman-Boston island (38100 and 38050) because at least those kids are used to busing. But they are all walkable to Randolph.

46132 is about 65% low income by the Staff's numbers. Sadly, that would help Drew -- but not by as much as moving more CH. You also have to be careful how many units stay at Abingdon if the idea is to relieve overcrowding.

I've been focused specifically on Drew issues, but I don't know that they shouldn't make more room at Hoffman-Boston (CH to Drew, north of Pike units to Fleet and Long Branch) to take more of Oakridge, since I understand Oakridge is projected to keep growing like crazy. Haven't done those numbers though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the insight into Alcova. I actually learned about the split in the neighborhood recently in connection with providing feedback on the proposal. It really does help to know the areas we're talking about.

In line with that, why not send all of Alcova to Fleet? I have heard the response that the remaining Alcova units (37040 and 37050) are not diverse. They are in fact about 1/3 now (like the south-of-pike Henry units) and the current Staff projections for 37050 pretty clearly do not include Gilliam Place -- unless anyone thinks 2 years after Gilliam Place opens it will have only gained 6 kids for a *total* of 53 kids in that PU. So, those units will likely be higher in terms of fr/l within a couple of years. Moving Alcova provides or at least maintains diversity to Fleet, and keeps another CAF out of Barcroft. I understand that right now those units provide Barcroft with some higher-income students, but if we look just a few years down the line, I strongly suspect the situation will be reversed.

What am I missing?

Um, no. Alcova Heights is a very nice neighborhood with more million dollar homes than Arlington Heights because the lots in Alcova are huge and lots of people have torn down or built on. As far as I can tell, Gilliam Place will be the first CAF. I'm happy for Fleet to take Gilliam Place, but I think zoning all of Alcova Heights to Fleet will only make Barcroft sink deeper down into 80% or more FARMS. You see what I mean? You are improving FARMS at Drew by shifting the problem to Barcroft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

LOL you're claiming solidarity with a development your neighborhood opposed and doesn't even have a roof yet? Cmon dude, don't be so transparent. Not everyone can go to Fleet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

I live in Arl. Heights and appreciate what the PP was saying about maintaining diversity (although not the vitriol). I am looking at the map--what do you think about:
Leaving 46132 (Penrose) at Long Branch instead of rezoning to Fleet (this would free up some more space at Fleet)
Move 46120 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Hoffman-Boston
Move 46132 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Drew (this PU is mainly middle-class homes, correct?)
Move 38110 (Douglas Park) from Randolph to Drew
Split 37050 (Alcova) and zone the east side (Gilliam Place) to Fleet
Moving 36130 (Shirlington) from Abington to Drew
Keeping 36030 and other Columbia Forest PUs at Abington

No one gets 100% of what they want, but it does seem that would help Drew, no? One of the downsides, though, is that Alcova Heights gets split in half, which is not good for any neighborhood. And, PP is correct that it is a very small neighborhood.

I don't think this is a bad start, but I think it bumps up against some problems in APS's all-walking world. For instance, I don't think it makes sense to take one unit that currently walks to Randolph and send it to Drew on a bus. At a minimum, better to look at the current Hoffman-Boston island (38100 and 38050) because at least those kids are used to busing. But they are all walkable to Randolph.

46132 is about 65% low income by the Staff's numbers. Sadly, that would help Drew -- but not by as much as moving more CH. You also have to be careful how many units stay at Abingdon if the idea is to relieve overcrowding.

I've been focused specifically on Drew issues, but I don't know that they shouldn't make more room at Hoffman-Boston (CH to Drew, north of Pike units to Fleet and Long Branch) to take more of Oakridge, since I understand Oakridge is projected to keep growing like crazy. Haven't done those numbers though.

What about sending 38040 and 38090 from Randolph to Drew? I'm pretty sure 38090 is middle class homes and 38040 has all those $$$ townhomes behind the sugar shack.
In exchange, Randolph can pick up 37090.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the insight into Alcova. I actually learned about the split in the neighborhood recently in connection with providing feedback on the proposal. It really does help to know the areas we're talking about.

In line with that, why not send all of Alcova to Fleet? I have heard the response that the remaining Alcova units (37040 and 37050) are not diverse. They are in fact about 1/3 now (like the south-of-pike Henry units) and the current Staff projections for 37050 pretty clearly do not include Gilliam Place -- unless anyone thinks 2 years after Gilliam Place opens it will have only gained 6 kids for a *total* of 53 kids in that PU. So, those units will likely be higher in terms of fr/l within a couple of years. Moving Alcova provides or at least maintains diversity to Fleet, and keeps another CAF out of Barcroft. I understand that right now those units provide Barcroft with some higher-income students, but if we look just a few years down the line, I strongly suspect the situation will be reversed.

What am I missing?

Um, no. Alcova Heights is a very nice neighborhood with more million dollar homes than Arlington Heights because the lots in Alcova are huge and lots of people have torn down or built on. As far as I can tell, Gilliam Place will be the first CAF. I'm happy for Fleet to take Gilliam Place, but I think zoning all of Alcova Heights to Fleet will only make Barcroft sink deeper down into 80% or more FARMS. You see what I mean? You are improving FARMS at Drew by shifting the problem to Barcroft.

Yes, I see the trade-off clearly. Part of why I was asking. I will say I have done the numbers and can get Barcroft to high 60s, not 80. You can pull some of the Abingdon units to Barcroft to help make up for the loss of Alcova if you do it that way. It is definitely not perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

I live in Arl. Heights and appreciate what the PP was saying about maintaining diversity (although not the vitriol). I am looking at the map--what do you think about:
Leaving 46132 (Penrose) at Long Branch instead of rezoning to Fleet (this would free up some more space at Fleet)
Move 46120 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Hoffman-Boston
Move 46132 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Drew (this PU is mainly middle-class homes, correct?)
Move 38110 (Douglas Park) from Randolph to Drew
Split 37050 (Alcova) and zone the east side (Gilliam Place) to Fleet
Moving 36130 (Shirlington) from Abington to Drew
Keeping 36030 and other Columbia Forest PUs at Abington

No one gets 100% of what they want, but it does seem that would help Drew, no? One of the downsides, though, is that Alcova Heights gets split in half, which is not good for any neighborhood. And, PP is correct that it is a very small neighborhood.

I don't think this is a bad start, but I think it bumps up against some problems in APS's all-walking world. For instance, I don't think it makes sense to take one unit that currently walks to Randolph and send it to Drew on a bus. At a minimum, better to look at the current Hoffman-Boston island (38100 and 38050) because at least those kids are used to busing. But they are all walkable to Randolph.

46132 is about 65% low income by the Staff's numbers. Sadly, that would help Drew -- but not by as much as moving more CH. You also have to be careful how many units stay at Abingdon if the idea is to relieve overcrowding.

I've been focused specifically on Drew issues, but I don't know that they shouldn't make more room at Hoffman-Boston (CH to Drew, north of Pike units to Fleet and Long Branch) to take more of Oakridge, since I understand Oakridge is projected to keep growing like crazy. Haven't done those numbers though.

What about sending 38040 and 38090 from Randolph to Drew? I'm pretty sure 38090 is middle class homes and 38040 has all those $$$ townhomes behind the sugar shack.
In exchange, Randolph can pick up 37090.

Problem with that (aside from the fact that you'd still be turning walkers to bus riders) is 37090 is the rest of Barcroft apartments and currently attends a different middle school. Bad for Randolph's fr/l numbers (which can hardly get worse) and for its alignment. It's frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, and I’m not even saying some of those planning units shouldn’t have to leave Henry. But Henry did agree to move and it agreed under a promise. That’s all. Things have changed and I get it. Henry isn’t “special.” But also Henry isn’t racist. If you’ve been there, if you knew the people, you would know how untrue and offensive that is. That’s all. It bothers me a lot that people are acting like it is. I also think it’s unfair to assume the desire to keep Henry’s most diverse planning units reeks of white privilege. Henry wants the 50 percent FARM to keep diversity. Drew wants them to reduce it.

First, there was no promise. Second, no, Henry parents aren't racist but how "woke" do you think the person who built your 700k house was, 70 years ago? Probably not very, and you are benefitting from that years later. Is your goldilocks level of diversity worth the creation of a school with an 85% poverty rate? You tell me. You cannot argue for one without recognizing the other as the consequence. That's life. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You lobbied the SB, and Drew's predicament is the result of catering to your loud, UMC voices. And by the way ... no one at the Henry "community" has said boo over the last ten years as the farms rate went from 60 to 30. It was only when UMC kids might get sent to Drew that this diversity argument got raised. So pardon me if I call BS.

Actually, I commented to APS that I think they shouldn't create an 85% FARMs school at Drew. But I don't know that the best and only way to solve that is by picking off part of Henry. I would like to see more options. And have more numbers.

You don't know crap about the Henry community, though. People there have been very upset watching this number drop. A lot of us are worried it will drop to 20% 10 years from now. That's why we care about trying to keep what we have. If Drew gets these PPUs, what is Fleet getting instead? The planning units in Alcova Heights aren't as diverse as the ones south of the Pike. And then that also takes wealth away from Barcroft, etc. All of this cascades. So to have a real conversation, we all need more data.

I understand that schools work best if the FARMs rate is around 30-40%. So you can sneer and say Goldilocks, but the fact is that Henry is a diverse school that works really well right now. It's not ridiculous that people want to protect that.

The PUs S of the Pike are gentrifying and will further, especially if they are spend to Fleet and if they do build a 4th neighborhood HS with a similar demographic. You don't want to go below 20%, then you need at least one CAF in your boundary. Either lobby for one to be built or ask for the Gilliam Place PU from Alcova to be carved out into your boundary. Leave the other Alcova PU at Barcroft.

So now you're chopping up a neighborhood without asking them what they think about it? I live in Alcova and I don't think I like siphoning off one building of our neighborhood, and I certainly don't like what I can hear everyone saying already "The wealthier residents of Alcova don't want THOSE kids and are happy to send them off to a different school." Alcova isn't Fairlington, or even Barcroft Apartments. It's much smaller, like Arlington Heights. Whatever school gets us should get us all. That said, it does make sense on every level for the PUs 5th street and north to attend Fleet. That section is unfortunately physically cut-off from the southern part of the neighborhood and the residents mainly from 5th and 6th streets recently fought-off an opportunity to create some connection with a bike/walking path. Getting a better sense of neighbors and connection between the two sections of Alcova has been challenging and with limited success for a very long time.

I agree. I do not think taking one building is the way to go. Break up a neighborhood community here to achieve diversity goal elsewhere - I don't support that.

I live in Arl. Heights and appreciate what the PP was saying about maintaining diversity (although not the vitriol). I am looking at the map--what do you think about:
Leaving 46132 (Penrose) at Long Branch instead of rezoning to Fleet (this would free up some more space at Fleet)
Move 46120 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Hoffman-Boston
Move 46132 (Columbia Heights) from Henry to Drew (this PU is mainly middle-class homes, correct?)
Move 38110 (Douglas Park) from Randolph to Drew
Split 37050 (Alcova) and zone the east side (Gilliam Place) to Fleet
Moving 36130 (Shirlington) from Abington to Drew
Keeping 36030 and other Columbia Forest PUs at Abington

No one gets 100% of what they want, but it does seem that would help Drew, no? One of the downsides, though, is that Alcova Heights gets split in half, which is not good for any neighborhood. And, PP is correct that it is a very small neighborhood.

I don't think this is a bad start, but I think it bumps up against some problems in APS's all-walking world. For instance, I don't think it makes sense to take one unit that currently walks to Randolph and send it to Drew on a bus. At a minimum, better to look at the current Hoffman-Boston island (38100 and 38050) because at least those kids are used to busing. But they are all walkable to Randolph.

46132 is about 65% low income by the Staff's numbers. Sadly, that would help Drew -- but not by as much as moving more CH. You also have to be careful how many units stay at Abingdon if the idea is to relieve overcrowding.

I've been focused specifically on Drew issues, but I don't know that they shouldn't make more room at Hoffman-Boston (CH to Drew, north of Pike units to Fleet and Long Branch) to take more of Oakridge, since I understand Oakridge is projected to keep growing like crazy. Haven't done those numbers though.

What about sending 38040 and 38090 from Randolph to Drew? I'm pretty sure 38090 is middle class homes and 38040 has all those $$$ townhomes behind the sugar shack.
In exchange, Randolph can pick up 37090.

Actually, they should move Drew's boundary north into Randolphs and then move Randolph's boundary east-west. So, draw a line at 9th st. and zone all PUs to Drew: 38070, 38080, 38090, 38110, 38100. These are all MC homes with only "1 to 9" ED kids, except for 38070 (which has 11). Then, zone the disputed Columbia Forest PUs to Randolph. Keep everything south of G. Mason Dr. at Abington.