AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

+1

Your logic doesn't make sense to me. If private school kids gain an advantage by not taking the AP, why can't public school kids do the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are really competing against the kids within their school. Therefore, if a school eliminates APs, it can be beneficial simply because admissions will base their decision on whether your child’s took the highest level courses offered. Even within public school, your greatest competition are your peers, not any other students in any other school. For example, they would never penalize a child for not taking AP in a lower ranked public school when there wasn’t an opportunity to take one.

It will however make admissions even more subjective amongst the kids within the same school. So, truthfully maybe colleges need to cut the crap they do for admissions. They should have a minimum bar and then do a plain simple lottery.

This is absolutely true. That is why I am so annoyed when public school parents think they have such advantage because their kid takes so many APs. My private school kid only took two APs so far as a rising senior, and he is going to be just fine. There wasn't even an opportunity to take APs in freshman and sophomore year. I have public school friends I saw this weekend talking about their rising freshman kid taking AP bio and more in freshman year. Sad.

They are doing what their kid needs to do to be competitive in their school. Why would you think it was about you and be annoyed? If their kids don't take those classes, they are screwed. So they do get an advantage within their peer group by going this route. Why would they care what classes your kid is taking in a different school system? Not sad.

What's sad is that these kids in the public schools will continue to chase these College Board dictated courses and compete against each other for whatever coveted university they have in their sights, while private schools will be designing their own challenging curriculum not consisting of the rote memorization of teaching to the test. The winners here are kids in private schools clearly

Where did you get this info from? I hear this expression constantly from private school parents. But if they have their kids in private and never set foot in any public HS, how did they know this by?

The reference is to rote memorization and teaching to the test with regard to AP courses, which are taken at both private and public schools. As a private school parent, I am grateful that my kid's exposure to AP courses is limited, hence, he is taking more courses (still challenging) that are designed by the particular school curriculum...not some big organization on a money making scheme (College Board).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

I'm not sure a private school is an advantage for college admissions. Many(but not all) of them are known for tough courses and hard grading. The kids there end up with lower GPAs. There are no 4.7 GPAs. My child would be way farther up in the class at our local, very well regarded, public school. How do I know? Because she went to school with all of those kids through middle school and was at the top of the class. At her private, she is probably top 25%. It's hard to get into her private school (acceptance rate of less than 10%) and the classes are very tough. Will that help her for college admissions? From what other parents from our school say, no. Do I regret private school? No. She learned a ton an compared to what my friends' kids are doing in our local public school, I am pleased by her school's courses. Is it a privilege to be able to send her? Yes, but I'd rather spindly money on that than vacations, stuff and a bigger house. DH and I were in public service for many years, then switched to private sector. We appreciate what we have and we are happy we can do it for our kids. I don't think I'm gaming the system by sending my kid to private school. Quite the opposite, she would have a better GPA from public and probably would end up at a better school (gaming would be transferring her there for senior year). We went private for other reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

I'm not sure a private school is an advantage for college admissions. Many(but not all) of them are known for tough courses and hard grading. The kids there end up with lower GPAs. There are no 4.7 GPAs. My child would be way farther up in the class at our local, very well regarded, public school. How do I know? Because she went to school with all of those kids through middle school and was at the top of the class. At her private, she is probably top 25%. It's hard to get into her private school (acceptance rate of less than 10%) and the classes are very tough. Will that help her for college admissions? From what other parents from our school say, no. Do I regret private school? No. She learned a ton an compared to what my friends' kids are doing in our local public school, I am pleased by her school's courses. Is it a privilege to be able to send her? Yes, but I'd rather spindly money on that than vacations, stuff and a bigger house. DH and I were in public service for many years, then switched to private sector. We appreciate what we have and we are happy we can do it for our kids. I don't think I'm gaming the system by sending my kid to private school. Quite the opposite, she would have a better GPA from public and probably would end up at a better school (gaming would be transferring her there for senior year). We went private for other reasons.

ITA with above and would add that your daughter will be better prepared for college and beyond than many of the kids getting 4.0+ GPAs in the pubic schools. Grade inflation is only hurting those kids who are in for a rude awakening when they start at their top university. Couple that with the fact that our local high schools have eliminated mid term and final exams. I have heard over and over again that college is in some ways easier than my son's private high school. That is how I know he will be well prepared.

[Anonymous]

Already the universities do their own calculations for GPAs since they say different high schools have different rigors and different weighting for honors and AP courses. So in essence, GPA as given by a high school completely disappears from admission evaluations once the pseudo GPAs are computed by each university. No university ever publishes how it transforms a high school given GPA into its own calculated GPA. Now the universities are eliminating standardized test requirements and AP course considerations. What is left to question or evaluate an admission committee's decision for bias and/or discrimination?

Will the universities in time eliminate GRE, MCAT, LSAT, and GMAT as well? After all, those scores can be gamed by grinding for years by giving up well rounded (!) personal development. May be, instead of students from other countries coming to the US for better education, they will start going to other countries that promote more objective and more transparent admission criteria, and offer better prepared student cohort. We can then totally achieve MAGA goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

+1

Your logic doesn't make sense to me. If private school kids gain an advantage by not taking the AP, why can't public school kids do the same?

Because admissions officers have said time and again that the key is for students to take them most challenging courses their school offers. This collection of private schools has made that problem go away by simply not offering them. But public school students still have to take them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

I'm not sure a private school is an advantage for college admissions. Many(but not all) of them are known for tough courses and hard grading. The kids there end up with lower GPAs. There are no 4.7 GPAs. My child would be way farther up in the class at our local, very well regarded, public school. How do I know? Because she went to school with all of those kids through middle school and was at the top of the class. At her private, she is probably top 25%. It's hard to get into her private school (acceptance rate of less than 10%) and the classes are very tough. Will that help her for college admissions? From what other parents from our school say, no. Do I regret private school? No. She learned a ton an compared to what my friends' kids are doing in our local public school, I am pleased by her school's courses. Is it a privilege to be able to send her? Yes, but I'd rather spindly money on that than vacations, stuff and a bigger house. DH and I were in public service for many years, then switched to private sector. We appreciate what we have and we are happy we can do it for our kids. I don't think I'm gaming the system by sending my kid to private school. Quite the opposite, she would have a better GPA from public and probably would end up at a better school (gaming would be transferring her there for senior year). We went private for other reasons.

I used to think that, but the magazines around here publish college matriculation stats from our very highly regarded public, and I have realized that that is almost certainly incorrect. Colleges know how to compare the schools themselves, and the college guidance departments at private schools seem to spend a lot more time and attention on their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Already the universities do their own calculations for GPAs since they say different high schools have different rigors and different weighting for honors and AP courses. So in essence, GPA as given by a high school completely disappears from admission evaluations once the pseudo GPAs are computed by each university. No university ever publishes how it transforms a high school given GPA into its own calculated GPA. Now the universities are eliminating standardized test requirements and AP course considerations. What is left to question or evaluate an admission committee's decision for bias and/or discrimination?

Will the universities in time eliminate GRE, MCAT, LSAT, and GMAT as well? After all, those scores can be gamed by grinding for years by giving up well rounded (!) personal development. May be, instead of students from other countries coming to the US for better education, they will start going to other countries that promote more objective and more transparent admission criteria, and offer better prepared student cohort. We can then totally achieve MAGA goals.

So this is about MAGA?

[Anonymous]

Some private school parents here claim that their children's school teaches courses above AP course level and denigrate public school AP course teaching as prepping for the test and students rote learn. My DC goes to MCPS (non-magnet). I looked at Sidwell Friends 9th through 12 grade course curriculum. I am impressed with the elective choices in History and Computer Science areas. But Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Language courses at 11th/12th grade level either say will prepare students for AP exam or actually require students to write AP exams (in other words they are the level of AP courses in Public Schools but not higher). In fact, I am confident, my DC will have studied higher level Math and Science and equivalent level Language, History (albeit not with such rich choice of history electives to chose from) compared to Sidwell Friends curriculum. As for English language classes, I don't have sufficient information to form an opinion.

I am happy with the education my DC is getting at non-magnet MCPS. I am glad private school parents are happy with their DCs' education but there is no reason or rationale to put down public school education.

[Anonymous]

The days of being a well-rounded, straight A student who does Boy Scouts, plays sports and scores in the top 5th percentile on SAT and getting into Harvard are over. In fact, I know kids who cannot even get into USC.

So AP or not, unless you are a “development child,” i.e. the univeristy thinks you may donate $500,000 or more, you will have to distinguish yourself somehow.

In some ways I think getting rid of APs is great. But at the end of the day, each college will only admit so many kids from your high school. Perhaps the process will just become some subjective crapshoot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some private school parents here claim that their children's school teaches courses above AP course level and denigrate public school AP course teaching as prepping for the test and students rote learn. My DC goes to MCPS (non-magnet). I looked at Sidwell Friends 9th through 12 grade course curriculum. I am impressed with the elective choices in History and Computer Science areas. But Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Language courses at 11th/12th grade level either say will prepare students for AP exam or actually require students to write AP exams (in other words they are the level of AP courses in Public Schools but not higher). In fact, I am confident, my DC will have studied higher level Math and Science and equivalent level Language, History (albeit not with such rich choice of history electives to chose from) compared to Sidwell Friends curriculum. As for English language classes, I don't have sufficient information to form an opinion.

I am happy with the education my DC is getting at non-magnet MCPS. I am glad private school parents are happy with their DCs' education but there is no reason or rationale to put down public school education.

It's really about how MCPS pushes kids to take so many AP courses...starting in freshman year. Unnecessary!! But unfortunately necessary in this situation because these kids are competing against each other for college admissions. This is exactly the reason we chose not to send our kid to a well regarded W school. Not interested in a pressure cooker environment with stressed out kids self medicating and sadly committing suicide. Our private does offer AP courses, but not nearly at the same quantity. Expectations for AP courses at our private are much lower, and kids get into excellent schools regardless. Remember people, you are not competing against kids at other schools...you are competing against your classmates for spots in universities.

[Anonymous]

I would take it a step further and I say this an an Alum interviewer:
* MCPS applicants are competing with ALL MCPS applicants, including magnet ones
* DC private applicants are competing with ALL DC private applicants.

We do not look at it school by school in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would take it a step further and I say this an an Alum interviewer:
* MCPS applicants are competing with ALL MCPS applicants, including magnet ones
* DC private applicants are competing with ALL DC private applicants.

We do not look at it school by school in this area.

You don't look at it? How much does your point of view matter in the process? I don't think it counts for much.

[Anonymous]

Because admissions officers have said time and again that the key is for students to take them most challenging courses their school offers. This collection of private schools has made that problem go away by simply not offering them. But public school students still have to take them.

That's a terrible misconception. The private school courses - at least at places like Sidwell and STA are all rigorous and competitive and the colleges know it. The reason colleges are moving away from APs is because the high scores are just as likely to be a sign of affluence as strong academics whether the kid comes from a public or private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some private school parents here claim that their children's school teaches courses above AP course level and denigrate public school AP course teaching as prepping for the test and students rote learn. My DC goes to MCPS (non-magnet). I looked at Sidwell Friends 9th through 12 grade course curriculum. I am impressed with the elective choices in History and Computer Science areas. But Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Language courses at 11th/12th grade level either say will prepare students for AP exam or actually require students to write AP exams (in other words they are the level of AP courses in Public Schools but not higher). In fact, I am confident, my DC will have studied higher level Math and Science and equivalent level Language, History (albeit not with such rich choice of history electives to chose from) compared to Sidwell Friends curriculum. As for English language classes, I don't have sufficient information to form an opinion.

I am happy with the education my DC is getting at non-magnet MCPS. I am glad private school parents are happy with their DCs' education but there is no reason or rationale to put down public school education.

It's really about how MCPS pushes kids to take so many AP courses...starting in freshman year. Unnecessary!! But unfortunately necessary in this situation because these kids are competing against each other for college admissions. This is exactly the reason we chose not to send our kid to a well regarded W school. Not interested in a pressure cooker environment with stressed out kids self medicating and sadly committing suicide. Our private does offer AP courses, but not nearly at the same quantity. Expectations for AP courses at our private are much lower, and kids get into excellent schools regardless. Remember people, you are not competing against kids at other schools...you are competing against your classmates for spots in universities.

Non-magnet MCPS parent here: The truth can't be further from the bolded/underlined statement that MCPS pushes kids to take so many AP courses...starting in freshman year. Our experience at a well regarded W school. When a student moves from 8th to 9th grade, the 8th grade teachers suggest what courses in the core subjects the student may want to register in and may include an AP course. But it is just a suggestion penciled in on a course list sheet. Student and parents can totally override it and write in their own desired courses (eliminating the AP course and instead selecting a lower level course). At no time did the high school counselor, Principal, any STEM subject department head, or any STEM teacher ever forced any AP course to be taken. I only heard we exercise caution, monitor time demand for study considering extra curricular activities DC is involved in, and drop to a lower level course within the drop/change time period, or advised to select a lower level course right at the outset. In fact, at every presentation about next year's planned course offerings the principal and the teachers strongly advise not to succumb to peer pressure (by which what they mean is for a student to not register for AP courses just because friends are registering for them. Based on our personal experience, I have nothing but good things to say about the administration, staff, and teachers' approach to students' course selection. As for why some students take challenging course load it is because they have the capability and they want to challenge themselves. As to why some unfortunate and sad events happen, in my opinion, they are not because of pressure from the school to register for AP courses. The school doesn't pressure students.

All the best to your DCs in their respective schools.