AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But won't these classes just be replaced by classes that are equally demanding, but not called "AP?"

The issue comes in when they use the AP test to opt out of the lower level courses in college. It's been found that the level instruction they receive in HS is NOT equal to the instruction they'd receive in the lower level college course. Lots of 4.0+ all A students struggling after skipping the intro level courses in college.

Not my kids. They skipped the intro classes thanks to AP and did just fine. Where are you getting your information from? Do you have an actual source or is it just your “feeling” with nothing to back it up?

Same here. Kid one was liberal arts double-major Econ and Chinese language. She took 6 AP tests (regardless of course AP label or not, scored very well, went to Columbia, was able to skip the core liberal arts course requirements like 1 semester of English Lit, History, Computer Science, Calc BC, Biology. I think she needed to take one large lecture Earth Science class and took something like Beaches &U SHoreline. Other than that, she progressed in her Econ and Chinese lessons, also studied at LSE and then Beijing, plus tacked on 500 level graduate econ/stats senior year.

Other kid was engineering and that school did not require liberal arts core classes. He had excellent tough math classes in upper school - smaller environment and hands-on teacher - so taking differential equations, multivariate equations, linear algebra freshman and sophomore year again was a good 2nd exposure and ego boost. Allowed for him to socialize more and focus on the 4-6 hour engineering labs and exams that had 45% correct as an A.

So kid and interest dependent.

Doesn't quite sound accurate to me. At Columbia, no one gets out of the Core Curriculum (except the engineers who only take half of it). No AP exam gets your DC out of freshman year University Writing. While you get general credit from some departments, AP classes mostly just affect placement options and don't satisfy major requirements. The policies are pretty analogous across the elite colleges because college classes > high school classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

Really? Well then what do you consider the SAT and ACT? Also, private school kids will still take the AP exams, they just don't need special prescribed curriculum AP classes to do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had three families with kids at W schools call me to ask about the private my kid attends. All 3 said they were looking to switch because the pressure on kids to take so many AP classes wasn’t healthy in their opinion. AP classes can be fine but only in moderation and some area schools have done a terrible job counseling moderation to the kids.

Great job, private schools. You are now officially marketing to families both that you are *more* rigorous than public schools (if that’s what the family wants) and *less* rigorous than public schools (if that’s what the family wants). All things to all people!

[Anonymous]

Yes, we got Sidwell's letter this morning. We support the decision, not that Sidwell emphasized the APs much anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes were designed for families who hope to save some money by have their kids get through college more quickly by skipping the freshman requirements. Its also been a way to "prove" that public schools are teaching advanced classes by using prescribed college level instruction and then publishing the number of those kidws who pass the exam with a 4 or 5. The problem is that the AP classes are rote and all the critical thinking and natural progression and tangential learning are removed.

There is no need for AP classes in top private schools like the ones named in this thread. Honors and advanced classes in these schools, with a little extra studying, is all that is necessary to pass the AP exam with a 4 or 5. Plus, colleges are already very aware of the high level or teaching and expectations at the top privates so "A"s really mean something and there is no need for weighting grades. Overall, APs just arent needed in private schools.

Correct, so just take the AP test in late May and then you don't have to do Intro level U.S. History, or Spanish, or Biology again in college. You can take the next level or Honors track at college. If you want to float by freshman and sophomore year, sure, take the same coursework again but in a larger class environment. If that's what college is about to you, go for it!

We don't send our kids to Bama or Ole Miss. The Ivies require placement tests for foreign languages. If your child is a science major, every Ivy professor will tell you not to skip the intro basic science classes or anything beyond first semester calculus unless your child is a prodigy.

Yes this was my experience at an ivy and I tend to agree with it (having actually skipped some of the intro science classes myself). It's not something I'd advise in hindsight (and it was not advised to me either but I pushed the issue).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

Really? Well then what do you consider the SAT and ACT? Also, private school kids will still take the AP exams, they just don't need special prescribed curriculum AP classes to do well.

I consider the ACT sand SAT the last existing exams by which to actually compare students across schools, and I expect many more kids to opt out of them and apply to test optional schools. I also really don’t expect students will take APs on their own, given that the whole point of these courses is that they don’t have to cover the same material as the AP tests.

I think we’re moving to a point where truly the only number that matters is your parents’ income. If you can write a check to the university, you get to go. It’s not fair but at least it’s honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes were designed for families who hope to save some money by have their kids get through college more quickly by skipping the freshman requirements. Its also been a way to "prove" that public schools are teaching advanced classes by using prescribed college level instruction and then publishing the number of those kidws who pass the exam with a 4 or 5. The problem is that the AP classes are rote and all the critical thinking and natural progression and tangential learning are removed.

There is no need for AP classes in top private schools like the ones named in this thread. Honors and advanced classes in these schools, with a little extra studying, is all that is necessary to pass the AP exam with a 4 or 5. Plus, colleges are already very aware of the high level or teaching and expectations at the top privates so "A"s really mean something and there is no need for weighting grades. Overall, APs just arent needed in private schools.

Correct, so just take the AP test in late May and then you don't have to do Intro level U.S. History, or Spanish, or Biology again in college. You can take the next level or Honors track at college. If you want to float by freshman and sophomore year, sure, take the same coursework again but in a larger class environment. If that's what college is about to you, go for it!

We don't send our kids to Bama or Ole Miss. The Ivies require placement tests for foreign languages. If your child is a science major, every Ivy professor will tell you not to skip the intro basic science classes or anything beyond first semester calculus unless your child is a prodigy.

Do I recall recent threads asking where to send the bottom 25% of private school classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had three families with kids at W schools call me to ask about the private my kid attends. All 3 said they were looking to switch because the pressure on kids to take so many AP classes wasn’t healthy in their opinion. AP classes can be fine but only in moderation and some area schools have done a terrible job counseling moderation to the kids.

BS. Why would they all call YOU if they don’t even know you well enough to know where your kids go to school?

[Anonymous]

I went to RMIB, so I experienced both AP and IB classes. The AP classes were a mile wide and an inch deep, particularly in the humanities. In all my years of schooling K-12, I spent one week total on the Civil War. One week! That was in AP US History. One of the seminal events of our nation's history, and it gets one week. We learned how to answer a DBQ but didn't really learn how to engage with primary source material. Meanwhile, thanks to taking IB History, I could probably still write an essay explaining the roots of the Russian Revolution and the impact of every Romanov tsar from Mikhail to Nicholas II on its development. And when I got to college, the history courses were much more like my IB classes than my AP classes. The top-tier colleges didn't even really count AP for anything, and I quickly understood why. So I applaud this move. If you want to churn and burn a bit above grade level, AP is great. If you want to learn in depth, you need something else. You can still take the AP exam and do well--just get a review book to learn the format and you'll be fine. That's what the IB kids did. People pay for private school to get something beyond what public school can offer, and AP is not that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to RMIB, so I experienced both AP and IB classes. The AP classes were a mile wide and an inch deep, particularly in the humanities. In all my years of schooling K-12, I spent one week total on the Civil War. One week! That was in AP US History. One of the seminal events of our nation's history, and it gets one week. We learned how to answer a DBQ but didn't really learn how to engage with primary source material. Meanwhile, thanks to taking IB History, I could probably still write an essay explaining the roots of the Russian Revolution and the impact of every Romanov tsar from Mikhail to Nicholas II on its development. And when I got to college, the history courses were much more like my IB classes than my AP classes. The top-tier colleges didn't even really count AP for anything, and I quickly understood why. So I applaud this move. If you want to churn and burn a bit above grade level, AP is great. If you want to learn in depth, you need something else. You can still take the AP exam and do well--just get a review book to learn the format and you'll be fine. That's what the IB kids did. People pay for private school to get something beyond what public school can offer, and AP is not that.

This is precisely why Andover doesn’t offer AP classes—or, rather, classes that strictly follow the AP curriculum. Some kids still take the exams, especially in math and language. This has been the case for at least 15 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had three families with kids at W schools call me to ask about the private my kid attends. All 3 said they were looking to switch because the pressure on kids to take so many AP classes wasn’t healthy in their opinion. AP classes can be fine but only in moderation and some area schools have done a terrible job counseling moderation to the kids.

Great job, private schools. You are now officially marketing to families both that you are *more* rigorous than public schools (if that’s what the family wants) and *less* rigorous than public schools (if that’s what the family wants). All things to all people!

Because heaven forbid that they treat children as people and not widgets on a factory line! The English departments at the Big 3 are much more rigorous than any of the local public schools and can't really be compared. The history/social science departments offer a mix of classes with some that are no different than a college course (that could never get approved by a local school board) and some that are pretty basic. The advanced tracks in math and first-year bio/chem/physics are comparable to TJ while the Big 3 take account of the poet who will never get past algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had three families with kids at W schools call me to ask about the private my kid attends. All 3 said they were looking to switch because the pressure on kids to take so many AP classes wasn’t healthy in their opinion. AP classes can be fine but only in moderation and some area schools have done a terrible job counseling moderation to the kids.

Great job, private schools. You are now officially marketing to families both that you are *more* rigorous than public schools (if that’s what the family wants) and *less* rigorous than public schools (if that’s what the family wants). All things to all people!

Because heaven forbid that they treat children as people and not widgets on a factory line! The English departments at the Big 3 are much more rigorous than any of the local public schools and can't really be compared. The history/social science departments offer a mix of classes with some that are no different than a college course (that could never get approved by a local school board) and some that are pretty basic. The advanced tracks in math and first-year bio/chem/physics are comparable to TJ while the Big 3 take account of the poet who will never get past algebra 2.

Seriously. It’s very possible to offer courses that are more advanced than AP, especially to high performing kids. At Andover, for example, 500 level courses are at least at AP level and 600 level courses are beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

Really? Well then what do you consider the SAT and ACT? Also, private school kids will still take the AP exams, they just don't need special prescribed curriculum AP classes to do well.

I consider the ACT sand SAT the last existing exams by which to actually compare students across schools, and I expect many more kids to opt out of them and apply to test optional schools. I also really don’t expect students will take APs on their own, given that the whole point of these courses is that they don’t have to cover the same material as the AP tests.

I think we’re moving to a point where truly the only number that matters is your parents’ income. If you can write a check to the university, you get to go. It’s not fair but at least it’s honest.

Youa re plainly wrong. The truth is that is how it always has been and that we are moving away from that now. More elite colleges and universities are saving spaces for kids who are the first in their families to attend college, more schools are setting aside money to defray costs for poor and middle income students, more schools are downgrading the weight of legacy status, fewer rich privileged and upper class kids get into the elite colleges and universites every year as these schools are changing many if their policies to get a more economically diverse student body. Its is much tougher for private school students to get into the top colleges and universities than it was a generation ago mostly because so many kids who previously would never have been able to even consider an Ivy or top SLAC are now applying in record numbers.

[Anonymous]

Long overdue. AP classes are a complete joke. As someone above said, they are a mile wide and an inch deep. Hopefully public schools will follow and also get rid of them.