AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I believe PP was referring to the fact that a "public school parent" was referring to parents that send their kids to private schools as "privileged", as opposed to "hard working", "dedicated" or "people who made careful and responsible choices their entire lives". Hard work is not a privilege, not are the benefits derived therefrom.

If you chose to go to Florida for every spring break as opposed to staying back and studying, that's your problem.

...says the completely out of touch person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are really competing against the kids within their school. Therefore, if a school eliminates APs, it can be beneficial simply because admissions will base their decision on whether your child’s took the highest level courses offered. Even within public school, your greatest competition are your peers, not any other students in any other school. For example, they would never penalize a child for not taking AP in a lower ranked public school when there wasn’t an opportunity to take one.

It will however make admissions even more subjective amongst the kids within the same school. So, truthfully maybe colleges need to cut the crap they do for admissions. They should have a minimum bar and then do a plain simple lottery.

This is absolutely true. That is why I am so annoyed when public school parents think they have such advantage because their kid takes so many APs. My private school kid only took two APs so far as a rising senior, and he is going to be just fine. There wasn't even an opportunity to take APs in freshman and sophomore year. I have public school friends I saw this weekend talking about their rising freshman kid taking AP bio and more in freshman year. Sad.

They are doing what their kid needs to do to be competitive in their school. Why would you think it was about you and be annoyed? If their kids don't take those classes, they are screwed. So they do get an advantage within their peer group by going this route. Why would they care what classes your kid is taking in a different school system? Not sad.

What's sad is that these kids in the public schools will continue to chase these College Board dictated courses and compete against each other for whatever coveted university they have in their sights, while private schools will be designing their own challenging curriculum not consisting of the rote memorization of teaching to the test. The winners here are kids in private schools clearly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are really competing against the kids within their school. Therefore, if a school eliminates APs, it can be beneficial simply because admissions will base their decision on whether your child’s took the highest level courses offered. Even within public school, your greatest competition are your peers, not any other students in any other school. For example, they would never penalize a child for not taking AP in a lower ranked public school when there wasn’t an opportunity to take one.

It will however make admissions even more subjective amongst the kids within the same school. So, truthfully maybe colleges need to cut the crap they do for admissions. They should have a minimum bar and then do a plain simple lottery.

This is absolutely true. That is why I am so annoyed when public school parents think they have such advantage because their kid takes so many APs. My private school kid only took two APs so far as a rising senior, and he is going to be just fine. There wasn't even an opportunity to take APs in freshman and sophomore year. I have public school friends I saw this weekend talking about their rising freshman kid taking AP bio and more in freshman year. Sad.

They are doing what their kid needs to do to be competitive in their school. Why would you think it was about you and be annoyed? If their kids don't take those classes, they are screwed. So they do get an advantage within their peer group by going this route. Why would they care what classes your kid is taking in a different school system? Not sad.

What's sad is that these kids in the public schools will continue to chase these College Board dictated courses and compete against each other for whatever coveted university they have in their sights, while private schools will be designing their own challenging curriculum not consisting of the rote memorization of teaching to the test. The winners here are kids in private schools clearly

Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with PP being "annoyed" by the parents of those kids.

[Anonymous]

I think you mean a challenging curriculum that can't be measured. How convenient for the private school students. Harvard has already an Asian acceptance problem - I'ld say public school students are next.

[Anonymous]

There is certainly some value to a standardized test that can be given to kids across the country. I think private schools are lucky in that they don't have to prove the rigor of their courses with the AP scores, but public schools will need that level of detail.

IB programs are very different. To do well on an IB test is less common and requires a depth and breadth of study not measured on AP tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes were designed for families who hope to save some money by have their kids get through college more quickly by skipping the freshman requirements. Its also been a way to "prove" that public schools are teaching advanced classes by using prescribed college level instruction and then publishing the number of those kidws who pass the exam with a 4 or 5. The problem is that the AP classes are rote and all the critical thinking and natural progression and tangential learning are removed.



There is no need for AP classes in top private schools like the ones named in this thread. Honors and advanced classes in these schools, with a little extra studying, is all that is necessary to pass the AP exam with a 4 or 5. Plus, colleges are already very aware of the high level or teaching and expectations at the top privates so "A"s really mean something and there is no need for weighting grades. Overall, APs just arent needed in private schools.

I completely disagree with your characterization of AP exams as rote as least for subjects like math, the sciences, comp sci, and languages. They are generally in line with a typical freshman college final exam in these subjects.

While the AP exams may have originally been designed for college credit, they now provide a sold national-lever curriculum, which the US is sorely lacking. Similar to O levels in the UK. While you might quibble with some of the test questions, in general they are solid.

I agree with this characterization of AP. Doesn't mean top private schools don't offer equally good or perhaps even better courses...but it is a rigorous curriculum that is set nationally. Truthfully not all the school developed course my child has taken at a DC private schools are well constructed or rigorous.

[Anonymous]

I'm a bit confused by some of the comments this is being done to avoid a comparison between public and private school kids.

Isn't college credit given on the scores in actual AP exam, not whether or not they took an actual "AP course"?

Private school, non-AP course kids will still take the same AP exam that their AP-course public school kids are taking, and the results on these exams are what the universities use for credit, placement, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit confused by some of the comments this is being done to avoid a comparison between public and private school kids.

Isn't college credit given on the scores in actual AP exam, not whether or not they took an actual "AP course"?

Private school, non-AP course kids will still take the same AP exam that their AP-course public school kids are taking, and the results on these exams are what the universities use for credit, placement, etc.

yes. THis is NBD. the schools are just warning you that you will have to do more DIY if you're taking the AP history, spanish, english lit, calc AB or BC, bio, or chem, etc. AP tests in late May. Off their shoulders, on to yours. Just learn the format and be comfortable with the time constraints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are really competing against the kids within their school. Therefore, if a school eliminates APs, it can be beneficial simply because admissions will base their decision on whether your child’s took the highest level courses offered. Even within public school, your greatest competition are your peers, not any other students in any other school. For example, they would never penalize a child for not taking AP in a lower ranked public school when there wasn’t an opportunity to take one.

It will however make admissions even more subjective amongst the kids within the same school. So, truthfully maybe colleges need to cut the crap they do for admissions. They should have a minimum bar and then do a plain simple lottery.

This is absolutely true. That is why I am so annoyed when public school parents think they have such advantage because their kid takes so many APs. My private school kid only took two APs so far as a rising senior, and he is going to be just fine. There wasn't even an opportunity to take APs in freshman and sophomore year. I have public school friends I saw this weekend talking about their rising freshman kid taking AP bio and more in freshman year. Sad.

They are doing what their kid needs to do to be competitive in their school. Why would you think it was about you and be annoyed? If their kids don't take those classes, they are screwed. So they do get an advantage within their peer group by going this route. Why would they care what classes your kid is taking in a different school system? Not sad.

What's sad is that these kids in the public schools will continue to chase these College Board dictated courses and compete against each other for whatever coveted university they have in their sights, while private schools will be designing their own challenging curriculum not consisting of the rote memorization of teaching to the test. The winners here are kids in private schools clearly

Where did you get this info from? I hear this expression constantly from private school parents. But if they have their kids in private and never set foot in any public HS, how did they know this by?

[Anonymous]

Maybe one or both parents attended public schools and took AP classes themselves. Or they talk to other parents. I don't get your confusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

[Anonymous]

College admissions offices look at whether students are taking the hardest classes available, regardless of whether they have the AP label or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are really competing against the kids within their school. Therefore, if a school eliminates APs, it can be beneficial simply because admissions will base their decision on whether your child’s took the highest level courses offered. Even within public school, your greatest competition are your peers, not any other students in any other school. For example, they would never penalize a child for not taking AP in a lower ranked public school when there wasn’t an opportunity to take one.

It will however make admissions even more subjective amongst the kids within the same school. So, truthfully maybe colleges need to cut the crap they do for admissions. They should have a minimum bar and then do a plain simple lottery[i][u].

I've always thought that made so much more sense.
Go through the admissions pile and grade everyone "highly qualified" "borderline" and "not qualified"
Within the highly qualified pile, just do a lottery and put the rest of the highly qualified kids on the wait list. Obviously go to the borderline kids if needed for matriculation numbers.
Let's stop the craziness of trying to be the "tuba player they really need that year"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

“As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileges parents ...”.

Is this a parody?

I’m the one who wrote it and no, it’s not a parody. Should I say it again using different words? I am a public school parent. I see (non-scholarship) private school parents as privileged. They use their money to purchase a credential in order to give their children advantages. By eliminating APs, these schools are giving their students yet another advantage, in that they can no longer be compared directly with similar applicants to college from public school. They are in effect exempted from one key element of admissions.

Many posters have said that these private school students will still take the actual AP exams. I doubt students will do so if they have been explicitly told by colleges that it doesn’t matter if they do. (Note the admissions director in the article who said not taking APs won’t harm their chances of admission.) However if students do still take the exams, certainly my argument no longer holds.

Just imagine for a moment that you live in a different country that has national exams, like A Levels in England. Then imagine that the wealthiest students in that country are exempt from taking the exams and told it will not affect their chances of college admission. This is how this all sounds to me.

+1

[Anonymous]

But they are not A-levels. They are an arbitrary sampling designed primarily to make money. The colleges have left them behind and they now do little more than create an artificial hoop to jump through. Some schools and students have quit jumping through the hoops.