In case anyone still thinks spanking is okay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are enough women getting beaten in this world, I am not going to contribute to that by hitting my own daughter. Parents who spank are ill ignorant and lack much needed skills to deal with stress. I would stop being friends with a mom who spanked.

What you refuse to even consider is that spanking is not a means to deal with stress. It's a discipline tool. When you put your daughter in time out is that a means to deal with stress or a tool you use to teach her something. When you take something away from your daughter to teach her a lesson is that a means to deal with stress or a discipline tool. Spanking is a discipline tool used by some/many parents. It should be done in a controlled manner. What is truly a pity is that even given the 13 pages of comments on both sides of the fence, those who don't spank continue to paint those who do as barbaric and ignorant etc. If you choose not to spank no problem. But who is being ignorant when one dismisses those who do spank unequivocally and then proceeds to state that if you become aware of a friend who spanks their kid you will cease to be friends immediately.

Sorry I just can't get past the fact that it's acceptable to do a child but not a dog.

No one trains a dog using only positive discipline. Not if they're honest, or if they are actually training the dog.

[Anonymous]

NP Here. Please read the articles if you want to argue with me. But read because a lot of the arguments here are just ... rants.

A few things, we see that there is less corporal punishment is places like Sweden, which historically tests higher at PISA and bans spanking:
https://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/world/sweden-punishment-ban/
https://www.thelocal.se/20161206/what-swedens-improving-school-performance-tells-us-pisa

Note that the USA is one of the few countries that did not support/ratify the rights of a child, along with Sudan and Somalia (which is ironic since we have so many who believe that the baby has rights.... but I digress), which promotes the rights of the child and argues the banning of hitting a child:
https://www.unicef.org/crc/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/11/21/why-wont-the-u-s-ratify-the-u-n-s-child-rights-treaty/?utm_term=.2d5368b2824d

There is a ton of research that supports that child abuse instills fear and removes trust between parents (see study in first post of the thread). Furthermore, we see that this is a political issue, with most of the Christian Right supporting spanking:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/16/living/spanking-cultural-roots-attitudes-parents/index.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-adrian-peterson-beating-and-the-christian-rights-love-of-corporal-punishment?ref=scroll

And we're seeing that the result of physical threats, that people who fear being harmed even at the age of 4, tend to have more conservative, anti-immigrant and racist views:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?utm_term=.906e0a3843ef

And, it can be shown that the states that allow corporal punishment (spanking in schools), tend to be red states:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/09/18/19-states-still-allow-corporal-punishment-in-school/?utm_term=.cb6f99029794

And they support PADDLING:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/07/21/school-paddling/499177001/
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/04/12/521944429/where-corporal-punishment-is-still-used-its-roots-go-deep

And that we are not spanking, more and more based on education and shifts in information but it's really SLOW and SMALL changes:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/st_2015-12-17_parenting-09/

In lieu of these articles, it looks like we are going backwards compared to the rest of the world when it comes to how we are raising our kids. I know that the prevailing argument is that "I'm fine and I got spanked." But it's okay to change. I got spanked, saw the data, and made the firm decision to not hit my kids because they tend do better at life as a result. Who doesn't want their kids to be better at life?

For the people who are struggling with how discipline your kids, start with not disciplining your kids. I'm not a therapist or doctor but try this:

Start with praising your kids. It's hard, because you're tired of parenting all of the time, but start with that-- notice when they do something good and mention it. And then when they do something great, say something like: "I know you can be good. I remember when you did [insert good behaviour here]. I would really appreciate it if you can apply that good behaviour here." I know that telling my kid that our family is a team, and when their behavior effects how our team is successful it makes it harder for us as a whole. I also tend to also talk about being "good helpers." Because helpers make the world a little better. My kids are 9 and 5, so this works for me still.

And also: get therapy for both you and your kid if you are struggling. REALLY. Because we're parents and not behavioural specialists and they can teach us things that we aren't learning on an anonymous parenting forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are enough women getting beaten in this world, I am not going to contribute to that by hitting my own daughter. Parents who spank are ill ignorant and lack much needed skills to deal with stress. I would stop being friends with a mom who spanked.

What you refuse to even consider is that spanking is not a means to deal with stress. It's a discipline tool. When you put your daughter in time out is that a means to deal with stress or a tool you use to teach her something. When you take something away from your daughter to teach her a lesson is that a means to deal with stress or a discipline tool. Spanking is a discipline tool used by some/many parents. It should be done in a controlled manner. What is truly a pity is that even given the 13 pages of comments on both sides of the fence, those who don't spank continue to paint those who do as barbaric and ignorant etc. If you choose not to spank no problem. But who is being ignorant when one dismisses those who do spank unequivocally and then proceeds to state that if you become aware of a friend who spanks their kid you will cease to be friends immediately.

Sorry I just can't get past the fact that it's acceptable to do a child but not a dog.

No one trains a dog using only positive discipline. Not if they're honest, or if they are actually training the dog.

It's been a long time since I had a dog so training philosophies may have changed but I do have a vague recollection of being told to use a rolled up newspaper and swat their rump when they misbehave. I also remember being told that a loud clapping of your hands in their ears also serves to stop/discourage bad behavior. It's been a long time so I realize I may have this wrong as the last time I had a dog was when I was 13 years old but does anyone else recall anything like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP Here. Please read the articles if you want to argue with me. But read because a lot of the arguments here are just ... rants.

A few things, we see that there is less corporal punishment is places like Sweden, which historically tests higher at PISA and bans spanking:
https://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/world/sweden-punishment-ban/
https://www.thelocal.se/20161206/what-swedens-improving-school-performance-tells-us-pisa

Note that the USA is one of the few countries that did not support/ratify the rights of a child, along with Sudan and Somalia (which is ironic since we have so many who believe that the baby has rights.... but I digress), which promotes the rights of the child and argues the banning of hitting a child:
https://www.unicef.org/crc/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/11/21/why-wont-the-u-s-ratify-the-u-n-s-child-rights-treaty/?utm_term=.2d5368b2824d

There is a ton of research that supports that child abuse instills fear and removes trust between parents (see study in first post of the thread). Furthermore, we see that this is a political issue, with most of the Christian Right supporting spanking:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/16/living/spanking-cultural-roots-attitudes-parents/index.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-adrian-peterson-beating-and-the-christian-rights-love-of-corporal-punishment?ref=scroll

And we're seeing that the result of physical threats, that people who fear being harmed even at the age of 4, tend to have more conservative, anti-immigrant and racist views:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?utm_term=.906e0a3843ef

And, it can be shown that the states that allow corporal punishment (spanking in schools), tend to be red states:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/09/18/19-states-still-allow-corporal-punishment-in-school/?utm_term=.cb6f99029794

And they support PADDLING:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/07/21/school-paddling/499177001/
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/04/12/521944429/where-corporal-punishment-is-still-used-its-roots-go-deep

And that we are not spanking, more and more based on education and shifts in information but it's really SLOW and SMALL changes:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/st_2015-12-17_parenting-09/

In lieu of these articles, it looks like we are going backwards compared to the rest of the world when it comes to how we are raising our kids. I know that the prevailing argument is that "I'm fine and I got spanked." But it's okay to change. I got spanked, saw the data, and made the firm decision to not hit my kids because they tend do better at life as a result. Who doesn't want their kids to be better at life?

For the people who are struggling with how discipline your kids, start with not disciplining your kids. I'm not a therapist or doctor but try this:

Start with praising your kids. It's hard, because you're tired of parenting all of the time, but start with that-- notice when they do something good and mention it. And then when they do something great, say something like: "I know you can be good. I remember when you did [insert good behaviour here]. I would really appreciate it if you can apply that good behaviour here." I know that telling my kid that our family is a team, and when their behavior effects how our team is successful it makes it harder for us as a whole. I also tend to also talk about being "good helpers." Because helpers make the world a little better. My kids are 9 and 5, so this works for me still.

And also: get therapy for both you and your kid if you are struggling. REALLY. Because we're parents and not behavioural specialists and they can teach us things that we aren't learning on an anonymous parenting forum.

I'll definitely look/read your articles (and I'm in the controlled spanking camp). I have no problem reading and learning even though my views differ from yours so thanks for sharing. Regarding your Praise philosophy - We do use this as well. I don't think relying on it solely will work for us but I appreciate the example of the whole "we are a team concept". I like that and will incorporate so thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are enough women getting beaten in this world, I am not going to contribute to that by hitting my own daughter. Parents who spank are ill ignorant and lack much needed skills to deal with stress. I would stop being friends with a mom who spanked.

What you refuse to even consider is that spanking is not a means to deal with stress. It's a discipline tool. When you put your daughter in time out is that a means to deal with stress or a tool you use to teach her something. When you take something away from your daughter to teach her a lesson is that a means to deal with stress or a discipline tool. Spanking is a discipline tool used by some/many parents. It should be done in a controlled manner. What is truly a pity is that even given the 13 pages of comments on both sides of the fence, those who don't spank continue to paint those who do as barbaric and ignorant etc. If you choose not to spank no problem. But who is being ignorant when one dismisses those who do spank unequivocally and then proceeds to state that if you become aware of a friend who spanks their kid you will cease to be friends immediately.

Sorry I just can't get past the fact that it's acceptable to do a child but not a dog.

No one trains a dog using only positive discipline. Not if they're honest, or if they are actually training the dog.

It's been a long time since I had a dog so training philosophies may have changed but I do have a vague recollection of being told to use a rolled up newspaper and swat their rump when they misbehave. I also remember being told that a loud clapping of your hands in their ears also serves to stop/discourage bad behavior. It's been a long time so I realize I may have this wrong as the last time I had a dog was when I was 13 years old but does anyone else recall anything like that?

Those methods of dog training are out of favor. Now, you only admit to using positive discipline, and you don't tell anyone about the aversives such as jangling coins in a metal can or a knee to a jumping dog. Or leash jerking or any sort of training collar or harness.

[Anonymous]

I grew up being spanked as a kid. It wasn't really a big deal and it was mostly phased out in favor of other punishments by the time I was about 6. Then one day I was about 11 and I mouthed off to my mom and she slapped me in the face. I think she was about as shocked as I was.

I made a decision to never hit my kids. I've never hit them once.

[Anonymous]

FYI, my kid is not a dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up being spanked as a kid. It wasn't really a big deal and it was mostly phased out in favor of other punishments by the time I was about 6. Then one day I was about 11 and I mouthed off to my mom and she slapped me in the face. I think she was about as shocked as I was.

I made a decision to never hit my kids. I've never hit them once.

I can appreciate that. I think 11 is way too old to spank and it seems that that is not what happened as your parents phased spanking out much earlier. I can imagine that your mom was shocked by what happened as she reacted in frustration and that is a real risk whether one spanks or not. We are all human and so its impossible to say one will never get frustrated with ones kids. I can appreciate that to avoid that ever becoming a reality that one decides not to spank ever. That's completely legitimate in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FYI, my kid is not a dog.

Of course not and no one said they were. The poster was responding to a previous poster that said they can't imagine something being done on a kid that is not even allowed to be done on dogs. That was the basis of that sidebar conversation. No need to try and stir up unnecessary trouble!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:totally true and explains a lot. my mom spanked ALL THE TIME. i'm 46 and i still defy her.

It's possible that your mom spanked you because you defied her all the time. I mean, correlation, causation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spanked my kids probably a total of 3 times when they were toddlers and ran into the street. I wanted them to stay out of the street. You often don't get a second chance to learn that lesson. I didn't care if they stayed out of the street because they were scared I would spank them. Not dying was more important than that. Both are terrific teens with whom I have a great relationship! I think you really need to distinguish between how and why the child is being spanked.

Same here. That's the only reason I ever spanked, and it was two times when she was two. Personally, I don't think I could spank her now at age four. I don't think I could explain why it is ok for me to hit her and why it's not ok for her to hit her friends (or me or her sister). I was never spanked but I saw a friend get belted once. It scared the crap out of me and I never wanted to go back to her house.

If you take away a toy, can you explain to her why that is OK, even though she is not able to take away her sister's toy?

Yes, I can. I can take a toy away from her if she loses the privilege to have that toy for some reason. She can't take a toy away from her sister because she's not an adult and she's not in charge of her sister. But I can't explain to her why I am allowed to cause her physical pain if she acts out for some reason while at the same time telling her that she can't hit someone because it's not ok to cause someone else physical pain.

Interesting - so you couldn't explain to her that as her mommy/daddy you are charged to take care of her and teach her things. One of the things you are trying to teach her is x. You have told her x number of times not to do x. She has refused to listen on x number of occasions. As a result, she will be punished with a spanking which only mommy/daddy are allowed to do because she continuously did not do x. In the future, when mommy/daddy tell you to do x, you expect her to do x.

I'm not going to debate with you. I use other tactics than spanking when my children don't listen (except for the two times she ran into the street and frankly, if spanking worked, I should have only had to spank her once, but it obviously didn't work and I didn't like hitting her so I never did it again). You want to hit your kids, then hit your kids. I don't want to hit my kids. End of conversation.

NP. You already did debate with her, and you lost. Your argument that you can cite legitimate parental authority to impose one punishment is exactly the same for administering a spanking. End of conversation.

+1

PP got spanked.

[Anonymous]

My mom reminded me of something interesting:

I was spanked a lot more than my little sister. I was yelled at, screamed at, blamed for, and beaten a lot. The cops were called twice on my dad because people saw him strike me. He was arrested both times. My sister was yelled at but was never struck. She is way more successful than me: PhD, CEO, and just amazing as a person. I got a MS and nowhere near as accomplished as her because she was more confident.

Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Spank your misbehaving kid please. One instance of appropriate spanking will prevent your kid from being an entitled psychopath/sociopath hooligan for life. If you are unable to do so, I am willing to come to your house and spank your kid for small fee. You all are willing to pay a lice lady, why not a discipline/spank lady? I will also come up with a more appropriate and palatable name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:totally true and explains a lot. my mom spanked ALL THE TIME. i'm 46 and i still defy her.

It's possible that your mom spanked you because you defied her all the time. I mean, correlation, causation.

True.

My dad never spanked, and I still defy him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are enough women getting beaten in this world, I am not going to contribute to that by hitting my own daughter. Parents who spank are ill ignorant and lack much needed skills to deal with stress. I would stop being friends with a mom who spanked.

What you refuse to even consider is that spanking is not a means to deal with stress. It's a discipline tool. When you put your daughter in time out is that a means to deal with stress or a tool you use to teach her something. When you take something away from your daughter to teach her a lesson is that a means to deal with stress or a discipline tool. Spanking is a discipline tool used by some/many parents. It should be done in a controlled manner. What is truly a pity is that even given the 13 pages of comments on both sides of the fence, those who don't spank continue to paint those who do as barbaric and ignorant etc. If you choose not to spank no problem. But who is being ignorant when one dismisses those who do spank unequivocally and then proceeds to state that if you become aware of a friend who spanks their kid you will cease to be friends immediately.

Sorry I just can't get past the fact that it's acceptable to do a child but not a dog.

No one trains a dog using only positive discipline. Not if they're honest, or if they are actually training the dog.

I never hit my dog.