ok, don't crucify me.. question about financial aid.

[Anonymous]

I agree that the pool of applicants applying to private schools is more than likely not the people anyone would agree are "deserving" of FA. Over the years, I have participated in numerous school fairs representing my DC school and I have given admission tours. If the applicant pool is representative of those I have spoken to when doing either I can tell you the poor and middle class are not applying in high numbers. There a few programs out there whose mission is so increase the number of lower income families applying but again, I don't think the impact they are having is so overwhelming such that they are being denied FA because a school is choosing to give more to the middle class. If I had to guess I would bet that the lower range of income at an elite private school (excluding teachers who teach for the school and send their kids there) is probably $150k-$250k. The overwhelming majority of parents at these elite private schools are law firm senior associates, partners, corporate business owners, corporate lobbyist, doctors, etc. The next range are high level government employees, nurses, federal law enforcement etc. these people are in the $150k-$250k depending on whether both spouses earn about the same. I think a combined HHI of less than $100K is an anomaly at these elite private schools, -!: typically will be single parents when they are present. I can't speak to why that it is, but I can only assume it might be a lack of interest, unawareness that FA exist, no desire, etc. I'm having a hard time believing it's because they did not get FA though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that the pool of applicants applying to private schools is more than likely not the people anyone would agree are "deserving" of FA. Over the years, I have participated in numerous school fairs representing my DC school and I have given admission tours. If the applicant pool is representative of those I have spoken to when doing either I can tell you the poor and middle class are not applying in high numbers. There a few programs out there whose mission is so increase the number of lower income families applying but again, I don't think the impact they are having is so overwhelming such that they are being denied FA because a school is choosing to give more to the middle class. If I had to guess I would bet that the lower range of income at an elite private school (excluding teachers who teach for the school and send their kids there) is probably $150k-$250k. The overwhelming majority of parents at these elite private schools are law firm senior associates, partners, corporate business owners, corporate lobbyist, doctors, etc. The next range are high level government employees, nurses, federal law enforcement etc. these people are in the $150k-$250k depending on whether both spouses earn about the same. I think a combined HHI of less than $100K is an anomaly at these elite private schools, -!: typically will be single parents when they are present. I can't speak to why that it is, but I can only assume it might be a lack of interest, unawareness that FA exist, no desire, etc. I'm having a hard time believing it's because they did not get FA though.

This. Why aren't more truly low income families applying? We already see the middle class families on the board constantly posting about "will we fit in". Can you imagine the challenges for lower class families? There are families who will choose to take chances in the familiar environment of public with vs subjecting their child to being a token. I know because I was one of those kids. There will be some who don't care and will hustle to get their child the best opportunity regardless and there are others who will not want to deal with the social challenges of navigating a private school world. Parochial or trying for a lottery or magnet school maybe, but not an elite private. The families I know under $100k in PG where I live the majority are focused on trying to get into a good lottery or charter school....private is not even being considered. For the few that are...low cost schools whose cost is comparable to the daycare bill they were already paying that are close to home and affiliated with churches are the main option being considered. When I get with other moms the conversation is dominated by the lottery and charter options. I have one friend in DC who applied and needed 100% aid for her child to attend K and when they didn't get in she assumed it was because they needed so much aid and they gave up on applying again and went with a charter school where they plan to stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about families that the mom doesn't work even though kids are in school all day and every time you see her she's in her tennis whites coming from the country club? Do you think that is fair for them to receive aid?

I can only speak for my DCs school. In a family in that situation applies for FA, the school will provide an average income based on the SAHM parents prior profession or education if the SAHM has never worked. If the calculation says they still qualify for aid, then I do not have a problem with it. I can think of one person who fits this model and supposedly her rich father pays for all of their family to have memberships but aside from that she lives a fairly middle class lifestyle. If they are cheating the system that sucks. However, my view is that it's the school's responsibility to make sound financial decisions. I assume they are doing so and are judicious in making good decisions about who gets FA and how much.

I think regardless of a family's circumstances, FA should not be given to a family that belongs to a club that costs $80,000 plus $9,000 a year in dues and also unless both parents work. It looks terrible to have a family hanging out at their club constantly and spending money there receive any aid when many others have both parents working full time just to pay their full tuition. It sends a very bad message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that the pool of applicants applying to private schools is more than likely not the people anyone would agree are "deserving" of FA. Over the years, I have participated in numerous school fairs representing my DC school and I have given admission tours. If the applicant pool is representative of those I have spoken to when doing either I can tell you the poor and middle class are not applying in high numbers. There a few programs out there whose mission is so increase the number of lower income families applying but again, I don't think the impact they are having is so overwhelming such that they are being denied FA because a school is choosing to give more to the middle class. If I had to guess I would bet that the lower range of income at an elite private school (excluding teachers who teach for the school and send their kids there) is probably $150k-$250k. The overwhelming majority of parents at these elite private schools are law firm senior associates, partners, corporate business owners, corporate lobbyist, doctors, etc. The next range are high level government employees, nurses, federal law enforcement etc. these people are in the $150k-$250k depending on whether both spouses earn about the same. I think a combined HHI of less than $100K is an anomaly at these elite private schools, -!: typically will be single parents when they are present. I can't speak to why that it is, but I can only assume it might be a lack of interest, unawareness that FA exist, no desire, etc. I'm having a hard time believing it's because they did not get FA though.

This. Why aren't more truly low income families applying? We already see the middle class families on the board constantly posting about "will we fit in". Can you imagine the challenges for lower class families? There are families who will choose to take chances in the familiar environment of public with vs subjecting their child to being a token. I know because I was one of those kids. There will be some who don't care and will hustle to get their child the best opportunity regardless and there are others who will not want to deal with the social challenges of navigating a private school world. Parochial or trying for a lottery or magnet school maybe, but not an elite private. The families I know under $100k in PG where I live the majority are focused on trying to get into a good lottery or charter school....private is not even being considered. For the few that are...low cost schools whose cost is comparable to the daycare bill they were already paying that are close to home and affiliated with churches are the main option being considered. When I get with other moms the conversation is dominated by the lottery and charter options. I have one friend in DC who applied and needed 100% aid for her child to attend K and when they didn't get in she assumed it was because they needed so much aid and they gave up on applying again and went with a charter school where they plan to stay.

Exactly. People with money, but not enough to have a country club membership constantly post on here about whether or not they will fit in. If they are concerned, I think it's fair to assume that poor or lower middle class people would have the same concern. Add in race and worrying if that adds an additional concern of exclusion, it makes sense that they would not be applying in numbers. There is a false perception that everyone must want to send their kid to theses schools and the only barrier is FA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about families that the mom doesn't work even though kids are in school all day and every time you see her she's in her tennis whites coming from the country club? Do you think that is fair for them to receive aid?

I can only speak for my DCs school. In a family in that situation applies for FA, the school will provide an average income based on the SAHM parents prior profession or education if the SAHM has never worked. If the calculation says they still qualify for aid, then I do not have a problem with it. I can think of one person who fits this model and supposedly her rich father pays for all of their family to have memberships but aside from that she lives a fairly middle class lifestyle. If they are cheating the system that sucks. However, my view is that it's the school's responsibility to make sound financial decisions. I assume they are doing so and are judicious in making good decisions about who gets FA and how much.

I think regardless of a family's circumstances, FA should not be given to a family that belongs to a club that costs $80,000 plus $9,000 a year in dues and also unless both parents work. It looks terrible to have a family hanging out at their club constantly and spending money there receive any aid when many others have both parents working full time just to pay their full tuition. It sends a very bad message.

I agree it looks bad. However, if it's not a financial obligation or debt of the parent applying I'm not sure how can deny an award based on just having a membership. I have never belonged to a club, but is membership viewed as an asset? If not, at one point in the application is it given membership if the applicant doesn't actually pay the fees? I suppose the school could say the grandparent need to pay for the tuition instead of the membership, but I just don't see how that would work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about families that the mom doesn't work even though kids are in school all day and every time you see her she's in her tennis whites coming from the country club? Do you think that is fair for them to receive aid?

I can only speak for my DCs school. In a family in that situation applies for FA, the school will provide an average income based on the SAHM parents prior profession or education if the SAHM has never worked. If the calculation says they still qualify for aid, then I do not have a problem with it. I can think of one person who fits this model and supposedly her rich father pays for all of their family to have memberships but aside from that she lives a fairly middle class lifestyle. If they are cheating the system that sucks. However, my view is that it's the school's responsibility to make sound financial decisions. I assume they are doing so and are judicious in making good decisions about who gets FA and how much.

I think regardless of a family's circumstances, FA should not be given to a family that belongs to a club that costs $80,000 plus $9,000 a year in dues and also unless both parents work. It looks terrible to have a family hanging out at their club constantly and spending money there receive any aid when many others have both parents working full time just to pay their full tuition. It sends a very bad message.

I agree it looks bad. However, if it's not a financial obligation or debt of the parent applying I'm not sure how can deny an award based on just having a membership. I have never belonged to a club, but is membership viewed as an asset? If not, at one point in the application is it given membership if the applicant doesn't actually pay the fees? I suppose the school could say the grandparent need to pay for the tuition instead of the membership, but I just don't see how that would work.

Well if the parent is playing tennis three times a week instead of working and are collecting financial aid while others are busting their butts working two jobs to pay full tuition that could look strange. They should be required to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that the pool of applicants applying to private schools is more than likely not the people anyone would agree are "deserving" of FA. Over the years, I have participated in numerous school fairs representing my DC school and I have given admission tours. If the applicant pool is representative of those I have spoken to when doing either I can tell you the poor and middle class are not applying in high numbers. There a few programs out there whose mission is so increase the number of lower income families applying but again, I don't think the impact they are having is so overwhelming such that they are being denied FA because a school is choosing to give more to the middle class. If I had to guess I would bet that the lower range of income at an elite private school (excluding teachers who teach for the school and send their kids there) is probably $150k-$250k. The overwhelming majority of parents at these elite private schools are law firm senior associates, partners, corporate business owners, corporate lobbyist, doctors, etc. The next range are high level government employees, nurses, federal law enforcement etc. these people are in the $150k-$250k depending on whether both spouses earn about the same. I think a combined HHI of less than $100K is an anomaly at these elite private schools, -!: typically will be single parents when they are present. I can't speak to why that it is, but I can only assume it might be a lack of interest, unawareness that FA exist, no desire, etc. I'm having a hard time believing it's because they did not get FA though.

I've applied at both the kindergarten level and middle school level for FA and while my child was accepted, they said I needed too much FA. I fall into the single parent category you mentioned making less than $100K per year. I'll try again in HS. One of the problems was that the estimated parent contribution report says I can only afford something ridiculously low like $1000/year. If they are going by that amount, no wonder they don't give me FA. Last year, I called one of the schools and said that I am currently paying appr. $9000/year in tuition at my DD's Catholic school and I put this on the application where it asks how much you can afford to pay. She said that the application gave them the $1000/year amount. Hello? I am telling you right now that I can afford $10K. I even told them they could verify this with my DD's current school. Very frustrating that these formulas are so random.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that the pool of applicants applying to private schools is more than likely not the people anyone would agree are "deserving" of FA. Over the years, I have participated in numerous school fairs representing my DC school and I have given admission tours. If the applicant pool is representative of those I have spoken to when doing either I can tell you the poor and middle class are not applying in high numbers. There a few programs out there whose mission is so increase the number of lower income families applying but again, I don't think the impact they are having is so overwhelming such that they are being denied FA because a school is choosing to give more to the middle class. If I had to guess I would bet that the lower range of income at an elite private school (excluding teachers who teach for the school and send their kids there) is probably $150k-$250k. The overwhelming majority of parents at these elite private schools are law firm senior associates, partners, corporate business owners, corporate lobbyist, doctors, etc. The next range are high level government employees, nurses, federal law enforcement etc. these people are in the $150k-$250k depending on whether both spouses earn about the same. I think a combined HHI of less than $100K is an anomaly at these elite private schools, -!: typically will be single parents when they are present. I can't speak to why that it is, but I can only assume it might be a lack of interest, unawareness that FA exist, no desire, etc. I'm having a hard time believing it's because they did not get FA though.

This. Why aren't more truly low income families applying? We already see the middle class families on the board constantly posting about "will we fit in". Can you imagine the challenges for lower class families? There are families who will choose to take chances in the familiar environment of public with vs subjecting their child to being a token. I know because I was one of those kids. There will be some who don't care and will hustle to get their child the best opportunity regardless and there are others who will not want to deal with the social challenges of navigating a private school world. Parochial or trying for a lottery or magnet school maybe, but not an elite private. The families I know under $100k in PG where I live the majority are focused on trying to get into a good lottery or charter school....private is not even being considered. For the few that are...low cost schools whose cost is comparable to the daycare bill they were already paying that are close to home and affiliated with churches are the main option being considered. When I get with other moms the conversation is dominated by the lottery and charter options. I have one friend in DC who applied and needed 100% aid for her child to attend K and when they didn't get in she assumed it was because they needed so much aid and they gave up on applying again and went with a charter school where they plan to stay.

Low income families don't consider top privates because they cost $40k. Would anyone ever really get 100% aid? If it is theoretically possible, how would they know that? At our k-8, 20% of kids get any aid at all. I'm pretty sure the number getting 100% aid are vanishingly small. I don't see why families would want to move their kids out of their communities and drive long distances to go to a place where they won't fit in and don't know anyone and probably can't afford it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you are overspending.

+1

[Anonymous]

Baltimore, $100k, 60% aid. Maybe this is more like $150k in DC. I do remember from when we were applying that some schools don't even give out 100% aid -- I believe that Calvert requires a minimum family contribution of $2400, on the "skin in the game" theory, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore, $100k, 60% aid. Maybe this is more like $150k in DC. I do remember from when we were applying that some schools don't even give out 100% aid -- I believe that Calvert requires a minimum family contribution of $2400, on the "skin in the game" theory, I guess.

Baltimore here too. I posted above. I made about $60K when my DD got into several Baltimore private schools and was awarded nothing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore, $100k, 60% aid. Maybe this is more like $150k in DC. I do remember from when we were applying that some schools don't even give out 100% aid -- I believe that Calvert requires a minimum family contribution of $2400, on the "skin in the game" theory, I guess.

Baltimore here too. I posted above. I made about $60K when my DD got into several Baltimore private schools and was awarded nothing at all.

Sorry that happened to you. Did the other parent fail to fill out the forms? I know someone who didn't get any FA because the other (asshole) parent refused to cooperate... I don't think the FA policies are particularly single-parent friendly. Like many colleges, they insist upon information from both parents. I do know one one-parent family getting FA but it's an adoption situation and I'm pretty sure there's only one legal parent existing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore, $100k, 60% aid. Maybe this is more like $150k in DC. I do remember from when we were applying that some schools don't even give out 100% aid -- I believe that Calvert requires a minimum family contribution of $2400, on the "skin in the game" theory, I guess.

Baltimore here too. I posted above. I made about $60K when my DD got into several Baltimore private schools and was awarded nothing at all.

Sorry that happened to you. Did the other parent fail to fill out the forms? I know someone who didn't get any FA because the other (asshole) parent refused to cooperate... I don't think the FA policies are particularly single-parent friendly. Like many colleges, they insist upon information from both parents. I do know one one-parent family getting FA but it's an adoption situation and I'm pretty sure there's only one legal parent existing.

My ex did fill out the FA forms. Hopefully the third time is the charm when I apply again for HS.

[Anonymous]

I hope so! At least at our school, there is much more FA available for the upper school. Good luck to you.

[Anonymous]

I think it would be very hard to be lower income at these schools...unless the child can board. in this case, full ride in order and kid would need to be top performer to earn his/her keep. A lot of pressure for a kid...