ok, don't crucify me.. question about financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And stop it with this notion that those making between $75K and $105K are "poor people."

Thank you!

I'm the head of household for a family with income in that range. I would consider our family to be middle class. All of our needs are met, but there's not a lot left over. I am constantly amazed that people making 300K seem to forget that families like our exist in this area. They rebrand themselves as "middle class", and everyone else as "the poors".

Our family benefited from 50% aid for preschool. For elementary school, we applied and were accepted to our first choice private with 0% aid. The school basically admitted that the acceptance was symbolic. They knew that they couldn't afford the kind of aid we needed, so they chose not to give any, and instead used their money for other families who needed less. My kid did well enough in public school that we didn't look into aid for later years.

Who said that families like yours did not exist? Everyone had a different definition of what being middle class is. Everyone has a different definition of what being comfortable is. I don't what schoo gave you a symbolic offer, but if I had to guess it wasn't not one with a million plus dollar FA endowment. The reality is that schools who don't have that kind of money can't give out substantial awards to more than a few families. You cannot compare FA decisions of schools with limited budgets to those with million dollar endowments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone had a different definition of what being middle class is.

You may as well have said "everyone has a different definition of what it means for an object to be blue." Or red. Sorry, doesn't work that way. There are plenty of hard facts out there about HHIs in the DC area.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $210K per year? Sorry, guess what? You earn more than 90% of households in the DC area. I don't know any definition of "middle" that puts you in the top 10 percent. Comfort is a different issue. I completely agree that's subjective.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $150K per year? Again, guess what? You earn more than 75% of households in the DC area.

The median HHI in the DC area is more like $93K. If you have objective data suggesting otherwise, I'm all ears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By your reasoning, then no one is a spokesperson for anything. LOL. Like I said, I feel qualified to speak on the matter since I'm fairly sure I have a much better idea about what is going on in the minds of poor people more than you do. And umm, I never said that ONLY upper-middle calls families should get anything. What I said was your argument that somehow upper middle-class people are undeserving or do not contribute to diversity is a bunch of BS and based on some false notion of who you think would most benefit and why. Having been poor I would never say a poor person would not benefit from FA. Of course they would. Duh! I am all for any poor person, lower middle class, upper middle class -- whoever - who wants to send their child to private school getting FA in whatever amount they need to make it possible! I am all for donating to the annual fund and any other fundraising activities my DC's school has (which I do despite also being on FA). The fallacy of your anger towards the upper middle class, is that somehow our FA is impacting the ability of some lower middle class or poor person to get FA. It is not! When a school gives out FA, do you think they are handing it out to the upper middle class first and screwing the poor kid who they really want to admit? You cannot possibly think that. LOL.

Absolutely right the no one is a spokesperson for anything. Poor people are not monoliths, just as white people are not monolith, nor are Christians, Muslims, upper middle-class people, etc.

You may have first-hand experience to speak on a matter, but that does not make you a spokesperson. Nowhere near it.

And your description of the FA landscape is truly LOL and shows an inability to grasp simple math. Please enlighten us on why, in a world where schools have finite budgets, allocation of FA is not a zero-sum game.

For elite schools with a million plus dollars to hand out in aid it most certainly is NOT a sum zero game. It is very much a "who they want to invest in game."
So I guess there are never spokesmen? Huh? That's a new one. I guess the word is just a fantasy. You like I use absolute terms. I never said I spoke for ALL poor people. I said, and I stand by it, I have a much better idea of what is on the average poor person's mind than you do. The real issue is your inability to see that you are equally, if not more, in no position to speak on whether private schools are on the radar for poor people. You so arrogantly assume they must want this, as it's surely their avenue to rid themselves of poverty -- and oh gosh your charity helped. Ridiculous.

NP. But it is largely a zero some game, even at the most elite and wealthiest schools. Every school has a FA budget. Sure a wealthy school could find an extra $20K or even $40K if there was some kid they really wanted that somehow wasn't accounted for during the usual process. But more broadly, they are not going to bust their budget, no matter how many quality students they have and would like to fund. In the end, they have to make choices and more money going to one group/kid is going to mean less to another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone had a different definition of what being middle class is.

You may as well have said "everyone has a different definition of what it means for an object to be blue." Or red. Sorry, doesn't work that way. There are plenty of hard facts out there about HHIs in the DC area.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $210K per year? Sorry, guess what? You earn more than 90% of households in the DC area. I don't know any definition of "middle" that puts you in the top 10 percent. Comfort is a different issue. I completely agree that's subjective.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $150K per year? Again, guess what? You earn more than 75% of households in the DC area.

The median HHI in the DC area is more like $93K. If you have objective data suggesting otherwise, I'm all ears.

So what exactly do you define me as? Rich? That's a joke. Of course by HHI standards, the home I live in, the car I drive and the vacations we take I am upper middle class. I never said otherwise. People who are rich can afford $40K tuition, to be SAHMs, nannies, chefs, country club memberships, etc. I cannot afford any of that. Whether you find it reasonable or not, I CANNOT afford $4000 a month for private school. That's more than my mortgage. LOL. The real problem is that you think it's your right to tell me (and others) what we should be willing to accept or rather settle for. I'm not one of the families the school is throwing a few grand at in a gesture of good faith. I'm actually what they decided is a family who demonstrated need, and I have no doubt what my DC adds to community sealed the deal. If you are content struggling to pay the full tuition or going to public because it's "morally" wrong to seek FA, then good for you and even better for me (you know since it's a sum ZERO game and all). LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone had a different definition of what being middle class is.

You may as well have said "everyone has a different definition of what it means for an object to be blue." Or red. Sorry, doesn't work that way. There are plenty of hard facts out there about HHIs in the DC area.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $210K per year? Sorry, guess what? You earn more than 90% of households in the DC area. I don't know any definition of "middle" that puts you in the top 10 percent. Comfort is a different issue. I completely agree that's subjective.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $150K per year? Again, guess what? You earn more than 75% of households in the DC area.

The median HHI in the DC area is more like $93K. If you have objective data suggesting otherwise, I'm all ears.

So what exactly do you define me as? Rich? That's a joke. Of course by HHI standards, the home I live in, the car I drive and the vacations we take I am upper middle class. I never said otherwise. People who are rich can afford $40K tuition, to be SAHMs, nannies, chefs, country club memberships, etc. I cannot afford any of that. Whether you find it reasonable or not, I CANNOT afford $4000 a month for private school. That's more than my mortgage. LOL. The real problem is that you think it's your right to tell me (and others) what we should be willing to accept or rather settle for. I'm not one of the families the school is throwing a few grand at in a gesture of good faith. I'm actually what they decided is a family who demonstrated need, and I have no doubt what my DC adds to community sealed the deal. If you are content struggling to pay the full tuition or going to public because it's "morally" wrong to seek FA, then good for you and even better for me (you know since it's a sum ZERO game and all). LOL.

Wow, you are entitled.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps I didn't read the entire thread, but I was surprised not to see more discussion of families with multiple children. We can talk about $40k tuition on $200-250k as one thing, but $80k or $120k is a far different proposition. Should schools give more to families with multiple children, even when the cost to educate each child remains the same? Teaching siblings doesn't cost less. What about children at different private schools? Is that taken into consideration? Should it be? I have an only child, by choice in part to send DC to private school. It's certainly complicated and this discussion has helped me understand some of the factors that I hadn't considered before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone had a different definition of what being middle class is.

You may as well have said "everyone has a different definition of what it means for an object to be blue." Or red. Sorry, doesn't work that way. There are plenty of hard facts out there about HHIs in the DC area.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $210K per year? Sorry, guess what? You earn more than 90% of households in the DC area. I don't know any definition of "middle" that puts you in the top 10 percent. Comfort is a different issue. I completely agree that's subjective.

You have a subjective opinion that being middle class is making $150K per year? Again, guess what? You earn more than 75% of households in the DC area.

The median HHI in the DC area is more like $93K. If you have objective data suggesting otherwise, I'm all ears.

So what exactly do you define me as? Rich? That's a joke. Of course by HHI standards, the home I live in, the car I drive and the vacations we take I am upper middle class. I never said otherwise. People who are rich can afford $40K tuition, to be SAHMs, nannies, chefs, country club memberships, etc. I cannot afford any of that. Whether you find it reasonable or not, I CANNOT afford $4000 a month for private school. That's more than my mortgage. LOL. The real problem is that you think it's your right to tell me (and others) what we should be willing to accept or rather settle for. I'm not one of the families the school is throwing a few grand at in a gesture of good faith. I'm actually what they decided is a family who demonstrated need, and I have no doubt what my DC adds to community sealed the deal. If you are content struggling to pay the full tuition or going to public because it's "morally" wrong to seek FA, then good for you and even better for me (you know since it's a sum ZERO game and all). LOL.

Wow, you are entitled.

I sure am. I'm absolutely entitled to the things I am willing to seek out and go after. Perhaps you should ask yourself why you are happy having less than what is available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps I didn't read the entire thread, but I was surprised not to see more discussion of families with multiple children. We can talk about $40k tuition on $200-250k as one thing, but $80k or $120k is a far different proposition. Should schools give more to families with multiple children, even when the cost to educate each child remains the same? Teaching siblings doesn't cost less. What about children at different private schools? Is that taken into consideration? Should it be? I have an only child, by choice in part to send DC to private school. It's certainly complicated and this discussion has helped me understand some of the factors that I hadn't considered before.

People who are anti FA don't care about that. If you have 4 kids then shame on you. You should have perfectly planned your life and only had 1.

However, yes schools do take family size into consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

Please tell me how students from a family in the top 20 percent income-wise, makes the student body that's already full of upper-class families more "diverse."

If you or the schools are genuinely interested in more socioeconomic diversity, you'd be showing more interest in giving more financial aid such that those families that are legitimately middle-class -- let's say the middle 30 to 40 percent of HHIs -- could attend. That would actually make the student body more diverse.

Only the FA officers at the school know what the middle 30-40% of their accepted applicants HHIs are. It could very well be that $150-200 IS the middle 30-40% of accepted applicants. The comparative pool is not the nation or even the DC area, the comparative pool is accepted applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps I didn't read the entire thread, but I was surprised not to see more discussion of families with multiple children. We can talk about $40k tuition on $200-250k as one thing, but $80k or $120k is a far different proposition. Should schools give more to families with multiple children, even when the cost to educate each child remains the same? Teaching siblings doesn't cost less. What about children at different private schools? Is that taken into consideration? Should it be? I have an only child, by choice in part to send DC to private school. It's certainly complicated and this discussion has helped me understand some of the factors that I hadn't considered before.

We budgeted for two which would have already would have been a stretch but then multiples happened on the second try.

[Anonymous]

What about families that the mom doesn't work even though kids are in school all day and every time you see her she's in her tennis whites coming from the country club? Do you think that is fair for them to receive aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about families that the mom doesn't work even though kids are in school all day and every time you see her she's in her tennis whites coming from the country club? Do you think that is fair for them to receive aid?

I can only speak for my DCs school. In a family in that situation applies for FA, the school will provide an average income based on the SAHM parents prior profession or education if the SAHM has never worked. If the calculation says they still qualify for aid, then I do not have a problem with it. I can think of one person who fits this model and supposedly her rich father pays for all of their family to have memberships but aside from that she lives a fairly middle class lifestyle. If they are cheating the system that sucks. However, my view is that it's the school's responsibility to make sound financial decisions. I assume they are doing so and are judicious in making good decisions about who gets FA and how much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

Please tell me how students from a family in the top 20 percent income-wise, makes the student body that's already full of upper-class families more "diverse."

If you or the schools are genuinely interested in more socioeconomic diversity, you'd be showing more interest in giving more financial aid such that those families that are legitimately middle-class -- let's say the middle 30 to 40 percent of HHIs -- could attend. That would actually make the student body more diverse.

Only the FA officers at the school know what the middle 30-40% of their accepted applicants HHIs are. It could very well be that $150-200 IS the middle 30-40% of accepted applicants. The comparative pool is not the nation or even the DC area, the comparative pool is accepted applicants.

Not really, because FA only knows about the HHIs of those who apply for aid. So they have no idea how much families who don't apply for aid -- for all kinds of reasons -- are making. That's part of my problem with FA -- maybe if FA offices knew that there are lots of families who are making do and paying full tuition, they wouldn't give FA to the SAHM who plays tennis every day (or whatever).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

Please tell me how students from a family in the top 20 percent income-wise, makes the student body that's already full of upper-class families more "diverse."

If you or the schools are genuinely interested in more socioeconomic diversity, you'd be showing more interest in giving more financial aid such that those families that are legitimately middle-class -- let's say the middle 30 to 40 percent of HHIs -- could attend. That would actually make the student body more diverse.

Only the FA officers at the school know what the middle 30-40% of their accepted applicants HHIs are. It could very well be that $150-200 IS the middle 30-40% of accepted applicants. The comparative pool is not the nation or even the DC area, the comparative pool is accepted applicants.

Not really, because FA only knows about the HHIs of those who apply for aid. So they have no idea how much families who don't apply for aid -- for all kinds of reasons -- are making. That's part of my problem with FA -- maybe if FA offices knew that there are lots of families who are making do and paying full tuition, they wouldn't give FA to the SAHM who plays tennis every day (or whatever).

It is not the school's responsibility to know what the HHI is of every family at the school. If a family chooses not to apply and struggle to pay the full tuition, that's on them. Everybody can apply. It's a choice. If you don't, you don't get to be mad at someone who did and got an award.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

Please tell me how students from a family in the top 20 percent income-wise, makes the student body that's already full of upper-class families more "diverse."

If you or the schools are genuinely interested in more socioeconomic diversity, you'd be showing more interest in giving more financial aid such that those families that are legitimately middle-class -- let's say the middle 30 to 40 percent of HHIs -- could attend. That would actually make the student body more diverse.

Only the FA officers at the school know what the middle 30-40% of their accepted applicants HHIs are. It could very well be that $150-200 IS the middle 30-40% of accepted applicants. The comparative pool is not the nation or even the DC area, the comparative pool is accepted applicants.

Not really, because FA only knows about the HHIs of those who apply for aid. So they have no idea how much families who don't apply for aid -- for all kinds of reasons -- are making. That's part of my problem with FA -- maybe if FA offices knew that there are lots of families who are making do and paying full tuition, they wouldn't give FA to the SAHM who plays tennis every day (or whatever).

It is not the school's responsibility to know what the HHI is of every family at the school. If a family chooses not to apply and struggle to pay the full tuition, that's on them. Everybody can apply. It's a choice. If you don't, you don't get to be mad at someone who did and got an award.

Yes that is actually what I meant. FA may be awarding aid to the middle 30-40% of FA applicants which very well may be in higher income range than most would think deserving of FA. As some have mentioned, it is likely that there is not a significant number of truly low income families applying and being accepted which skews the aid pool to higher incomes.